[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE

[itsonlymyopinion]

I've downloaded your list and added to it, just utility mods. I can confirm that, Atmospheric Sound Enhancement, KSP Alternate Resource Panel, Real Chutes, EVA Chutes, TAC Fuel Balancer, and Editor Extensions all work. Auto Asparagus seems to cause the inability to grasp objects after adding "connecting fuel lines." This may be a problem with the mod.

[Guest]

Does anyone know the most "realistic" looking texture pack/skybox for universe replacer? One that is highly detailed to make up for the RSS rescale would be great so we can have less blurry planets/moons.

[Guest]

I just read this about probes being able to take and analyze dirt samples here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/56137-Probe-Science-config-files

I know "some" probes in RPL V18B can do a "crew report" like probe reading and i was wondering if you would consider adding this to the stock & your custom probes. This would let us do more with unmanned missions, and the inclusion of this on all the probes (like stayputnik mk1 or the upcoming bumper/vanguard probes) would allow those missions to gain "probe reports" & "take and analyze dirt samples" points. This option could/would bypass the need to use the data recorder seeing as a sample should be easy to take if your in physical contact with said surface

If possible this could be a separate "surface analysis" (worth less points) rather than a normal "surface sample" to make sending living kerbals still an attractive option needed to "complete" science on a given planet/moon/biome. This addition along with the inclusion of "SCANsat" (in the kethane/ore scanner node perhaps) would give us probes/rovers/sats that can basically do everything current real life probes/rovers/sats can. The major issue i could see this causing would be that it may lessen the impact of sending live kerbals to a given location, perhaps there is a way to add a science point bonus for the 1st flag planting on a planet/moon/biome or some other point trigger that would make sending kerbals, rather than just probes, more attractive.

So to recap:

Do you think having ALL probes take "probe readings"/"surface analysis" is even a good idea?

Do you think that SCANsat could get included in this mod pack? (it has a small science reward i believe and generates GREAT looking maps for locating "stuff")

And Do you plan on making any bonus's for sending kerbals instead of unmanned probes, other than their surface sample/crew report/EVA report abilities?

[Guest]

Here you go!

Take note that you should give yourself some buffer unless you are really good at planning your maneuvers / launch window.

Also, the latest MJ build gives you your sea level TWR. So you can have an idea of what is your launch TWR. Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Where is Pluto on this delta-v chart?

[m_robber]

Hi

I'm really enjoying this mod setup, as it makes this game really challenging all over again. However, I have run into a problem with my first moon probe - I'm using a Reflectron KR-7, which should have a range of 900Mm, but it still loses contact at around 300Mm, even though there is line of sight to KSP. Am I missing something, or is this a bug?

[NathanKell]

Make sure (1) the range of Mission Control is sufficiently large (check the Remotetech2_settings.cfg file for MC's range in meters) and (2) the dish is targeting KSC (right click on dish, choose target, choose Mission Control).

[Rjhere]

Anyone else having huge problems with crashing? I get into the VAB, and whenever I click one something, it just closes down! Help!!!

I installed almost all the mods though...

[RaccoonTOF]

@Rjhere: Most likely you are running into the memory limitations of the Unity engine. Are you using the texture reduction mod, and/or the reduced texture size versions of the larger mod packs? I had the same issues as you (game loaded fine, but crashed when trying to actually add a part in the VAB) until I did this. This is assuming that the issue occurs with pretty much any part, and not just one or two specific ones...

[Guest]

Anyone else having huge problems with crashing? I get into the VAB, and whenever I click one something, it just closes down! Help!!!

I installed almost all the mods though...

Did you add the "BoulderCo" texture compressor and the 3 texture reduction packs (for Squad, KW Rocketry and Nova Punch). Without them you will 100% crash, if you can even manage to load game. I suggest you delete all non stretchy fuel tanks (i keep the size adapter, "insulated", the "gold ring tank" & xenon/mono tanks also). you can find them easily on forums and space port (NOTE: the 3 texture reducer packs, the texture compressor & Real Chutes should be added to the "essentials" list)

I have tried a few "eye candy" setups, universe replacer works if you use a 1K/2K texture pack (i use this: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/44135-0-22-Universe-Replacer-v4-0/page155 about 1/2 way down page @ 2K), you can also squeeze in "city lights and clouds" (visual enhancements V5 i think) but that will pretty much top you out for memory cap. This RPL pack and suggested mods leaves room for "lite" visual enhancements and maybe a handful of other "must have" mods (i have all suggested with compressor/reducers, universe replacer with 2K textures, visual enhancements V5, chatterer, and real chutes)

Edited December 16, 2013 by Guest

[RaccoonTOF]

With the texture compressor especially, you can actually have a lot of additional mods above those listed for this mod/tree actually. Just as an example, I'm able to run with B9 (reduced textures version) and Firespitter installed as well (both fairly large mods), high-res universe replacer mods, visual enhancements (city lights and clouds), plus a dozen or so additional medium-sized mods and a host of smaller mods. However, without using it and/or the compression packs, it does indeed tend to cap out the memory limits of the Unity engine with just the "essential" mods listed here.

[MedievalNerd]

Yeah, I'll add the texture compressor to the essentials list, no problem. It is indeed extremely useful.

Made myself a todo list to reach Milestone 19, might not have the manned missions yet, but early probes will get a full rehaul including some changes to the tech tree. Furthermore, i'll add a 'tested with' version for all the mods in the list. Just in case a mod adds a new feature that causes issues with either balance or functionality, AKA the heat production to solar panels with Interstellar. I'm currently updating all my mods to the newest version and will make the tests with those, and any other update prior to releasing MS19.

I'll be adding another subnode to the tech tree, which will have the A4 (V2) and WAC engines only, along with the bumper cores. Sort of 1950's-ish start. But I need to findangle with the engine, using the new conic tanks from stretchy tanks e-dog added. Might actually be able to make it kinda look like a V2!

Nathan made some suggestions to switch around textures i'm using for each probe (showcased in earlier post) but i'm not sure I want to go through a new resizing frenzy.

Lastly, I need to make a few updates to the plugin to add the 2 new low/high situations for non atmospheric bodies. Make a few sample experiments, and test them out. Then, have a look at the impact probes with either chemical releases (Ie, Luna's sodium) or photographic 'data' using Romfarer's camera.

Should be pretty nice!

Stay tuned,

EDIT: I'll also start working on a few videos showcasing the whole data, video and chemical release features from the plugin. As well as a tutorial video on how to create your own experiments using the plugin. If you would like to submit some for me to be added to the pack, i'll be more happy than happy to. Thanks again for all the feedback.

Edited December 17, 2013 by MedievalNerd

[Guest]

This going to work ok with the 0.23 update that just came out?

[MedievalNerd]

This going to work ok with the 0.23 update that just came out?

I'm not able to get 0.23 yet, the store is overloaded. (As it it everytime)

Hopefully not too many changes to science and how it works fundamentally, i'll have to check if my plugin still works and adapt if necessary.

Time to make lemonade I guess...

[Guest]

I'm not able to get 0.23 yet, the store is overloaded. (As it it everytime)

Hopefully not too many changes to science and how it works fundamentally, i'll have to check if my plugin still works and adapt if necessary.

Time to make lemonade I guess...

My main concern is the way they have "capped" science transmissions to add more "grinding" to game (they could have found many better ways to deal with this but its done now). I am unsure how your mods/tweaks will respond with their 100% base/cap transmissions. I have paused in using RPL until MS19 comes out (science is too hard to gain to get to outer planets without doing many, many repeat moon missions, as rovers seem to be useless flip machines in RSS so i cant send unmanned rovers as is done in real life...NOTE please look into this, i can report same results on moon, Mars and Venus...the rovers drive fine for a couple of dozen meters then acts like it hits a ridge and flips like mad, i posted it in RSS thread but was completely ignored there) but i may load it up just to report how it seems to react. Mind you i'm sure the new science processing unit will allow more customs missions, now that there are 2 types of "labs" in RPL

[MedievalNerd]

My main concern is the way they have "capped" science transmissions to add more "grinding" to game (they could have found many better ways to deal with this but its done now). I am unsure how your mods/tweaks will respond with their 100% base/cap transmissions. I have paused in using RPL until MS19 comes out (science is too hard to gain to get to outer planets without doing many, many repeat moon missions, as rovers seem to be useless flip machines in RSS so i cant send unmanned rovers as is done in real life...NOTE please look into this, i can report same results on moon, Mars and Venus...the rovers drive fine for a couple of dozen meters then acts like it hits a ridge and flips like mad, i posted it in RSS thread but was completely ignored there) but i may load it up just to report how it seems to react. Mind you i'm sure the new science processing unit will allow more customs missions, now that there are 2 types of "labs" in RPL

Got my hands on it. My custom experiments still seem to work. What they did is to enforce a once only use on science modules. Which is fine in a way. Although a single module (IE probe) can't do multiple experiments in a single flight. Probably a way around that. And I already did fix the grinding aspect by matching the base and cap science values. What they seemed to have addressed is transmission spamming. But now people will just spam multiple modules on a single vessel. Not quite the 'fix' i was envisioning. But irrelevant when it comes to my custom experiments since they are either 100% transmittable or not. looking forward to investigate the 'processing' module they made. Could have rovers take samples, process them then have it be transmittable. we'll see!

I talked to Nathan about the rover thing, he's been really busy with MFS & ST, I'll have a look on it myself with rovers on those planets. If we can't move around on the bodies that'd be a problem.

Oh and Nathan gave the V2 and WAC Corporal an overhaul, and created these beauties! I'll include the craft files in the next update.

http://imgur.com/a/3WCRe

Cheers,

Edited December 17, 2013 by MedievalNerd

[MedievalNerd]

So I went through the old & new ScienceDefs.cfg file, and it seems Squad did eliminate the grinding on some of the experiments. The basic experiments have their base & cap values matched. But, they still have the XmitDataScalar to <1 values. Hence the forboding grinding unless you bring back the data from that experiment. And even then, others like goo and surface sample don't have matching base/cap science values so they will still give you % of the total each time you do them(grind with diminishing returns).

Looking at the changes of the science modules within stock parts; they changed a few values. The "resettable" and "resettableOnEVA" are gone, replaced with:

dataIsCollectable

CollectActionName

interactionRange

rerunnable

The first 3 are self explanatory, this is the new system they were mentioning that kerbals could carry experiments. I'm not sure about the second, says true for thermometer. I'll have to check if it actually can be reran within the same flight, if not. Not too sure what that do exactly.

Still have to look into how the science lab works in terms of 'processing' data. Could be an interesting mechanics to experiment with.

This obviously delays the release of MS19 shortly, but I see this as a blessing in disguise. Since i'd would have to update all the new experiments which I was going to start this morning. Then a friend sent me a message about the release. Saved some extra work in a way!

EDIT: Woa, ok, for the mobile jr lab the XmitScalar was reduced down to 0.3 which means transmitting data will lead to a long grind. Seems the Goo & Lab don't have rerunnable value, confusing me a little more. I'm sticking to my guns when I said that experiments should either be 100% transmittable or not at all. And they should be done so that it does not end up with diminishing returns.

Cheers,

Edited December 18, 2013 by MedievalNerd

[Rjhere]

I really want to get this to work, but there's so much that's not working together, like it's unplayable. So I'm gonna wait it out a couple of versions. Also there was something that resized all the engines so nothing matched any good...

[lmw5201]

@Rjhere You will need to use NathanKell's Realism Overhaul pack together for fuel tank radius variety.

[MedievalNerd]

NOTE TO ALL: Keep in mind that the currently released version is for 0.22 and not 0.23. I'm waiting for a few key mods to come with their 0.23 updates, so that I can work in the environment that people will be playing in. Some minor changes have been made, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

I really want to get this to work, but there's so much that's not working together, like it's unplayable. So I'm gonna wait it out a couple of versions. Also there was something that resized all the engines so nothing matched any good...

Considering how many mods are in play, and that some of them have a great impact on the game itself, unless you are totally familiar with each mod, take the time to read up on them. It's a lot to swallow in one shot with no prior familiarity of the listed mods, and what they do. Hence leads to your confusion of seeing things that didn't make sense to you. But I assure you, the mods work in perfect unity.

Realism Overhaul tweaks set standard sizes. (0.5M, 1M, 2M, 3M, etc.). Which is why 'stock/mod' tanks do not fit those perfectly. You 'have to' use stretchy tanks which have matching sizes, and a 9000 version which can have it's width tweaked.

Sorry for the confusion, but I can't really give a synopsis of all the mods in play since that would make for an extreme wall of text. Which the OP is already sort of looking like.

If you have any questions, feel free to come ask it here, or if more specific to a mod post it on that mod's thread. Although I endorse and use all these mods, I'm not an expert at all of them obviously.

[andqui]

What mods are you waiting on? I'm itching to try the new version.

[Guest]

I 2nd that.... it looks like FAR, DRE, RT2, real chutes, interstellar, KER, Mechjeb2, lazor systems, kethane, KAS, extra-planetary launchpads, Infernal robotics and RSS all have "fixed" versions for 0.23 up. ECLSS and TAC have yet to be updated as far as i know, (with some odd issues in ECLSS). Once ECLSS is "fixed up" we should have all the major mods updated for MS19 (I am hoping to have it before i'm off work for X-mas lol). Should all be finished with mod updates by end of day Dec 19th as long as ECLSS is done by then. I cant wait to see Bumper and vanguard (and to grab there science pts!), as soon as MS19 is out

[NathanKell]

RSS being fixed is news to me.

I'm tackling it once I finish MFS.

Vanguard...AFAIK we don't have a Vanguard yet. Although it shouldn't be hard to make: A Viking kerolox lower stage, an Able/Delta/whatever upper, and then two small solids.

[Guest]

Sorry not "Fixed" RSS lol, RSS seems to not be "broken" by 0.23, is MFS broken by 0.23 and being fixed, or working & just getting a new shiny version. Do you know what new "missions" will be present in MS19? I'm hoping for a complete set for kerbin probe/manned missions (which should only be another sub-orbital, bumper, and maybe a few low/high/polar orbital missions) and prehaps an MIR/ISS station mission. A small set lunar manned flyby/orbit/landing and a rover mission would be nice but i know these things take time. Once we have Kerbin (earth) and the mun (moon) rounded out with a 6 to 10 realistic missions each we will have "lots to do" while we await further out missions to Mars and Venus to be thought up. I think progress is going great, a small number of missions more will give almost everyone the tech they need to do outer planet missions. Also anyone else notice that the RSS delta-v map doesnt have pluto on it?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Guest

[NathanKell]

I can't answer the MS19 questions, but MFS is definitely broken and getting fixed. Also lots of cool stuff I've been working on for like 3 weeks for it, plus now I have to fix it for v4. (Well, I and taniwha, who did most of the fixing! Woo him!)

RSS scaling works some, but atmosphere is broken and I don't know what else yet.

[Guest]

Thanks for the answers. Not to be a bug but if you can track down my rover issue in RSS of slide/flip maddness i mentioned, i would really be a happy man. I can provide you with any examples from my save game if need be (i still have a rover on the moon i believe, that isnt really able to travel as an example)

EDIT: question: of the mods listed in "Realism Overhaul: ROv2 + Modlist for RSS " which are suggested for RPL?

Edited December 19, 2013 by Guest