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[WIP][TechTree @ 0.23.5] - [MS19e] - Realistic Progression LITE


MedievalNerd

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It was brought to my attention that due to the updated handling of the Data Collection Module (Thanks Nathan!), the input/output ratios for both DataCollection & Chem Trail have now reversed to 'true' per second. As such, the DR and CT modules will work at turtle speeds... D: Oupsie!

But the good news is... Yes, this is sort of good news. Is that we'll be able to use Timewarp! :) So I will be able to do mission that require 'long collection time' without having you fine people stare at the screen in anticipation for hours. lol

Stay tuned for yet, ANOTHER FIX!

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It looks very fine so far, still digging through the trench to find out what's what, but what I see so far is veeeerry lovely. Loading went fine and without an error, there are still a few items that make little sense but that's more a balance issue than a technical one (like the UP25 decoupler being available from start instead of a smaller one, and all heat shields being there).

Just one question: Why is the procedural wings part of the must-have package and the procedural fairings are not? I'd rather need the latter than the former. Can I install the fairings without breaking anything?

Oh, and there is actually a little bit that seems to be not working right, in the free tech tree node "Head Shields & Farings" there is a "Nosecone (0.3m)" that would need to be researched but it won't show up as researched. Most likely because there's a nosecone by the same name right next to it. In case the list of installed modules and their order helps, here it is:


List of installed modules and order of installation:

KSP_0_23_5 (from Squad)
Real Fuels v5.3 (from https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/releases/download/rf-v5.3/RealFuels_v5.3.zip)
(RealFuels 5.3 comes with ModManager 2.1.0.dll, installed that, too)
Real Solar System v6.1 (from https://github.com/NathanKell/RealSolarSystem/releases/tag/v6.1)
(RSS comes with ModuleManager 2.0.7.dll, did not install that)
Deadly Reentry Cont v4.7 (from https://github.com/NathanKell/DeadlyReentry/releases/download/v4.7/DeadlyReentryCont_v4.7.zip)
(RealFuels 5.3 comes with ModManager 2.1.0.dll, identical in size and timestamp with the one from RF)
Realism Overhaul (from https://github.com/NathanKell/RealismOverhaul/releases/download/v5.1/RealismOverhaul_v5.1.zip)
(RO comes with ModManager 2.1.0.dll, identical in size and timestamp with the one from RF)
RO lists a few things that you should have/need, I'll add them at the bottom of the list
StretchySRB (from https://github.com/NathanKell/StretchySRB/releases/tag/v9)
FAR 0.13.3 (from https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/releases/tag/v0.13.3)
(along with the 000_Toolbar that comes with it, without ModuleManager 2.0.5.dll)
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement v2.3.4 (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/kerbal-joint-reinforcement/)
RemoteTech2 (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/remotetech2/)
(without ModuleManager_1_5.dll)
Remotetech2 Hotfix (from http://www./download/dncc8qu44t30a90/RemoteTech2_2014.01.08.22.30.zip)
(overwriting RemoteTech2.dll)
TAC life support (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/tac-life-support/)
KW Rocketry (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-1-kw-rocketry-overhauled/)
NovaPunch (from http://www./download/3gd8wz2pq6iozb2/NovaPunch2_03_5.zip)
AIES (from http://www./download/c8efj64k6izx6xc/AIES_Aerospace151.zip)
FASA (from http://www./download/spk1hok9fhr5d4c/FASA3.86.zip)
installed all 4 folders (FASA, JSI, MechJeb2RPM, SCANsatRPM)
Procedural Dynamics Procedural Wings (from https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70818657/ProceduralDynamics0.7.zip)
Even though I don't do planes... but it's in the "must have list", so...
Real Chutes v1.1.0.1 (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/realchute/)
Soviet Engine Pack v1.1 (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-22soviet-engines-pack-v1-0/)
(installed the "normal" version only, not the 064cfg one)
Active Texture Management (basic version, from https://github.com/rbray89/ActiveTextureManagement/releases/tag/3-1-basic)
MechJeb2 v2.2.1.0 (from http://kerbal.curseforge.com/plugins/220221-mechjeb/files/2201514/download)
(that one seems to have been updated very recently)

RO lists a few more things that need to be done. Most of the things in the "needed" list is also in the one for RPL, what's left is...
Engine Ignitor v3.2 (from https://www.dropbox.com/s/yousr4nxflld9ra/EngineIgnitor%20V3.2.zip)
ModuleRCSFX (from https://github.com/Ialdabaoth/ModuleRCSFX/blob/master/ModuleRCSFX.zip?raw=true)
Advanced Jet Engine (from https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v1funr72y504rz6/dQTj9C3tXn/AJE_1.0.zip)
AJE requires HotRockets (from http://www.curse.com/plugins/kerbal/220207-hotrockets-particle-fx-replacement)

I decided against the Extras for now. Fewer moving parts and such.

So, step #1 done, let's continue...

Treeloader 1.1.3 (from http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/treeloader/)
RPL Tweak pack 19c (from https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yw5zs4chxzxn9m/RPL_Tweak_Pack_MS19c.rar)
Moving GameData\RPL_Tweak_Pack\RPL\RT2_SETTINGS(MOVE THE FILE TO RT2 FOLDER & DELETE THIS FOLDER AFTER)\RemoteTech_Settings.cfg to \GameData\RemoteTech2
RftS_Pack v2 (from https://www.dropbox.com/s/1fg0d4z428nn1vi/RftS_Pack_v2.zip)
Exsurgent Engineering (from https://github.com/careo/ExsurgentEngineering/raw/rework_smartergimbal/ExsurgentEngineering/obj/Release/ExsurgentEngineering.dll)

Still digging through it all, but I love it so far already. Great work!

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@Ivan

Why is the procedural wings part of the must-have package and the procedural fairings are not? I'd rather need the latter than the former. Can I install the fairings without breaking anything?

Wow! You just made me realize it wasn't on the list somehow!? Yes, it's supported and please do go get them. (They are implemented in the tree and all that jazz)

For the dupe part, not too sure what that's about. Ignore it for now, unless it's THAT nosecone you absolutely wanted. ;)

@Balance

Yeah, with the massive infusion of mods I did for MS19 there are some random parts still needing to find a home! D:

Edited by MedievalNerd
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I was wondering if you could make a historical probes pack for the rescaled stock planets. Not everybody wants to play with RL planets, so it would make people happy if it you could make something like I suggested.

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I was wondering if you could make a historical probes pack for the rescaled stock planets. Not everybody wants to play with RL planets, so it would make people happy if it you could make something like I suggested.

A historical probes pack, but for 'non-earth' system? I'm not sure that makes sense. :)

What historical missions ever went to Minmus? (There is no reference body for anything like Minmus) You get my drift?

What I think you mean is to have experiments that aren't following the RSS order of planets. (IE, Minmus not orbiting kerbin) The issue with this is that it would require '2 separate' tech trees & tweak packs (To account for the different order of planets and what not)

The 'two trees' I'm seeing coming to life in the distant future will be this one (based on RFTS) and a second one (based on Real Engines). And I think that in any case, those wouldn't require separate trees, unless some parts need reassigning. Still that would be minor job compared to redoing the entire exploration tree and coming up with experiments to fill it with. :/

The tree was created first and foremost for RSS/RO/FAR and the rest of the realism mods, I understand that people might like to experience the tree under a different setting but I can't offer that at the moment.

Best regards,

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Is there an easy fix for the data collection rate, or should we wait for a fix? I'm looking forward to finally being able to test the new version.

"easy fix" no, but it's doable.

Each probe .cfg (In the RPL folder) which has a Data Collection or Chem Trail node will have input & output values. I believe in most cases the input for EC is fine, it's the output that will most likely need a boost. Try '1' for the Data collection, that should ~1 Data Unit per second.

Nathan found the way to make warp work yesterday, but I implemented it by mistake. D:

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It was brought to my attention that due to the updated handling of the Data Collection Module (Thanks Nathan!), the input/output ratios for both DataCollection & Chem Trail have now reversed to 'true' per second. As such, the DR and CT modules will work at turtle speeds... D: Oupsie!

But the good news is... Yes, this is sort of good news. Is that we'll be able to use Timewarp! :) So I will be able to do mission that require 'long collection time' without having you fine people stare at the screen in anticipation for hours. lol

Stay tuned for yet, ANOTHER FIX!

I was suspecting the data collection rate wasn't "as intended" - it made the "first flights" unexpectedly challenging, as you have to get the WAC probe in actual orbit to allow it to stay up long enough for a rad reading, or keep it "flying high" for a whopping _15 minutes_ to aquire data to do atmospheric readings... It was actually a fun challenge (once!), but good to know the fix is imminent. :)

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I've searched through this topic and haven't see a solution to my problem anywhere. So how do I load the tree into the career mode? When treeloader prompts me to select a tree, no tree is able to be selected and I have to select the stock tree to continue. I am using 19c. Here is where the tree is loaded.

6:35:28.831] Config(VERSION) WarpPlugin/tree/VERSION[LOG 16:35:28.832] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_7144

[LOG 16:35:28.834] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_71440

[LOG 16:35:28.835] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_9820

[LOG 16:35:28.837] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_5951

[LOG 16:35:28.838] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_8234

[LOG 16:35:28.840] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_nanolathing

[LOG 16:35:28.841] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_automation

[LOG 16:35:28.843] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_robotics

[LOG 16:35:28.844] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalMotors

[LOG 16:35:28.846] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalScience

[LOG 16:35:28.847] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalAerodynamics

[LOG 16:35:28.849] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.851] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_aerospaceTech

[LOG 16:35:28.853] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.854] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_advAerodynamics

[LOG 16:35:28.855] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_advScienceTech

[LOG 16:35:28.857] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_advUnmanned

[LOG 16:35:28.859] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_specializedElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.860] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_actuators

[LOG 16:35:28.862] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_hypersonicFlight

[LOG 16:35:28.863] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_advancedMotors

[LOG 16:35:28.865] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_advMetalWorks

[LOG 16:35:28.866] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_largeControl

[LOG 16:35:28.868] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_unmannedTech

[LOG 16:35:28.870] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_highAltitudeFlight

[LOG 16:35:28.871] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_electronics

[LOG 16:35:28.873] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_largeElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.874] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_supersonicFlight

[LOG 16:35:28.876] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_veryHeavyRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.877] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_ionPropulsion

[LOG 16:35:28.879] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_nuclearPropulsion

[LOG 16:35:28.881] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_fieldScience

[LOG 16:35:28.882] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_composites

[LOG 16:35:28.884] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_heavyAerodynamics

[LOG 16:35:28.885] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_metaMaterials

[LOG 16:35:28.887] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_advLanding

[LOG 16:35:28.888] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_aerodynamicSystems

[LOG 16:35:28.890] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_specializedConstruction

[LOG 16:35:28.891] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_heavierRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.893] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_specializedControl

[LOG 16:35:28.894] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_advElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.896] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_precisionEngineering

[LOG 16:35:28.898] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_advExploration

[LOG 16:35:28.900] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_fuelSystems

[LOG 16:35:28.901] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_heavyRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.903] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_landing

[LOG 16:35:28.904] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_spaceExploration

[LOG 16:35:28.906] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_electrics

[LOG 16:35:28.907] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_advFlightControl

[LOG 16:35:28.909] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_advConstruction

[LOG 16:35:28.911] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_flightControl

[LOG 16:35:28.912] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_generalConstruction

[LOG 16:35:28.914] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_scienceTech

[LOG 16:35:28.915] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_advRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.917] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node2_stability

[LOG 16:35:28.918] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node1_basicRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.920] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node2_survivability

[LOG 16:35:28.921] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node2_generalRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.923] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node0_start

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I've searched through this topic and haven't see a solution to my problem anywhere. So how do I load the tree into the career mode? When treeloader prompts me to select a tree, no tree is able to be selected and I have to select the stock tree to continue. I am using 19c. Here is where the tree is loaded.

Huh, that's very bizarre. So you do get the Mumech Tree Loader prompt asking you to chose a tech tree, but none appear?

And btw, that log you posted, isn't related to RPL. That looks like some stuff from KSPI.

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I've searched through this topic and haven't see a solution to my problem anywhere. So how do I load the tree into the career mode? When treeloader prompts me to select a tree, no tree is able to be selected and I have to select the stock tree to continue. I am using 19c. Here is where the tree is loaded.

6:35:28.831] Config(VERSION) WarpPlugin/tree/VERSION[LOG 16:35:28.832] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_7144

[LOG 16:35:28.834] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_71440

[LOG 16:35:28.835] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_9820

[LOG 16:35:28.837] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_5951

[LOG 16:35:28.838] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/newnode_8234

[LOG 16:35:28.840] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_nanolathing

[LOG 16:35:28.841] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_automation

[LOG 16:35:28.843] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_robotics

[LOG 16:35:28.844] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalMotors

[LOG 16:35:28.846] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalScience

[LOG 16:35:28.847] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalAerodynamics

[LOG 16:35:28.849] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.851] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_aerospaceTech

[LOG 16:35:28.853] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node8_experimentalRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.854] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_advAerodynamics

[LOG 16:35:28.855] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_advScienceTech

[LOG 16:35:28.857] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_advUnmanned

[LOG 16:35:28.859] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_specializedElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.860] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_actuators

[LOG 16:35:28.862] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_hypersonicFlight

[LOG 16:35:28.863] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_advancedMotors

[LOG 16:35:28.865] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_advMetalWorks

[LOG 16:35:28.866] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_largeControl

[LOG 16:35:28.868] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_unmannedTech

[LOG 16:35:28.870] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_highAltitudeFlight

[LOG 16:35:28.871] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_electronics

[LOG 16:35:28.873] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_largeElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.874] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_supersonicFlight

[LOG 16:35:28.876] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_veryHeavyRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.877] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_ionPropulsion

[LOG 16:35:28.879] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_nuclearPropulsion

[LOG 16:35:28.881] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node6_fieldScience

[LOG 16:35:28.882] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_composites

[LOG 16:35:28.884] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_heavyAerodynamics

[LOG 16:35:28.885] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node7_metaMaterials

[LOG 16:35:28.887] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_advLanding

[LOG 16:35:28.888] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_aerodynamicSystems

[LOG 16:35:28.890] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_specializedConstruction

[LOG 16:35:28.891] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_heavierRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.893] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_specializedControl

[LOG 16:35:28.894] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_advElectrics

[LOG 16:35:28.896] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_precisionEngineering

[LOG 16:35:28.898] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node5_advExploration

[LOG 16:35:28.900] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_fuelSystems

[LOG 16:35:28.901] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_heavyRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.903] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_landing

[LOG 16:35:28.904] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_spaceExploration

[LOG 16:35:28.906] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_electrics

[LOG 16:35:28.907] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_advFlightControl

[LOG 16:35:28.909] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node4_advConstruction

[LOG 16:35:28.911] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_flightControl

[LOG 16:35:28.912] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_generalConstruction

[LOG 16:35:28.914] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_scienceTech

[LOG 16:35:28.915] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node3_advRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.917] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node2_stability

[LOG 16:35:28.918] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node1_basicRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.920] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node2_survivability

[LOG 16:35:28.921] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node2_generalRocketry

[LOG 16:35:28.923] Config(NODE) WarpPlugin/tree/node0_start

Are you sure your computer was connected to the internet at that time you tried it? I once couldn't make a new save with a treeloader tree because treeloader needs and internet connection to work.

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I don't know if it's just me, but after installing the 19c it doesn't update the tech tree on existing save. I made a workaround by starting a new save, editing in science and opening the correct nodes, then moving the tree file into my proper save folder. This was just a bit tricky as it's hard to compare the node costs and I don't know if I can see somewhere the total science I've accumulated? I did have the old free antenna nodes opened if that makes a difference.

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I don't know if it's just me, but after installing the 19c it doesn't update the tech tree on existing save. I made a workaround by starting a new save, editing in science and opening the correct nodes, then moving the tree file into my proper save folder. This was just a bit tricky as it's hard to compare the node costs and I don't know if I can see somewhere the total science I've accumulated? I did have the old free antenna nodes opened if that makes a difference.

It's not supposed to do that. The tree only updates ONCE and that's when you start a career. The alternative some people say is to use the tree file that it saves in the career. (IE start a new career, get the file, and move copy it over your 'current' career. But results may vary.

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It's not supposed to do that. The tree only updates ONCE and that's when you start a career. The alternative some people say is to use the tree file that it saves in the career. (IE start a new career, get the file, and move copy it over your 'current' career. But results may vary.

Delete tree.cfg, load your save and it'll prompt you again.

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It's not supposed to do that. The tree only updates ONCE and that's when you start a career. The alternative some people say is to use the tree file that it saves in the career. (IE start a new career, get the file, and move copy it over your 'current' career. But results may vary.

Oh ok so it's working as intended then. That's pretty much what I did to fix it, wasn't a big trouble except for eyeballing the correct nodes open. I thought it updates automatically because of the interstellar tree update prompt thingy.

EDIT: ninja'd by Ratzap. Does it retain the collected science or do you need to edit it back in?

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Oh ok so it's working as intended then. That's pretty much what I did to fix it, wasn't a big trouble except for eyeballing the correct nodes open. I thought it updates automatically because of the interstellar tree update prompt thingy.

EDIT: ninja'd by Ratzap. Does it retain the collected science or do you need to edit it back in?

All your collected science is in your actual game save so you keep it naturally. Tree.cfg is only the tech definitions, you can delete it any time and reload - no repercussions.

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I'm connected to the internet. Here is a picture.http://i.imgur.com/JfGfG7j.png?1

If there are any logs you need to see just ask.

No idea my friend. I'm not the one who created tree loader, so for support on it I'd suggest posting on the relevant thread.

Try a clean install and start a career with only Treeloader mod in your Game Data folder (Apart from the stock files obviously).

Are you using somekind of proxy, VPN or firewall?

Very strange!

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Awesome the KSC switcher RT2 file adds multi-ground stations, makes it feel more like an earth wide ground comms network exists. very happy about this!

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So what I understood from Ratzap, I don't need to start a new save file, just delete the tree.cfg, and reselect the 19c tree?

EDIT: Did so, and it seems to have worked.

Edited by Playful1510
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There seems to be a problem with WAC Corporal experiments in 19c. I started a completely new career and the data collection rate is really slow.

By the time I reached apogee (122.5km), 4 minutes after mark, the data recorder had only collected a measly 17.07 points of data.

When it again crossed the 18km threshold (T+00:06:47) on its way down, the data amounted to 32.34.

Am I doing it wrong?

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