[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[Hodo]

What I would love is a procedural system for the mk2 parts. That would be GREAT, then I could cut down on even more parts that I actually use.

[RedAV8R]

Well, if you're adding Jet-A to RF, then I think Camlost could easily switch fuel types. We'll have to discuss performance alterations, though, figuring that out could be hard. Maybe running just on Jet-A at first would be best.

I have yet to try, but I don't think AJE requires anything for a change to 'JetA'. Once you get things worked out with Camlost on the AJE front, then let us know and we can try to integrate other things into RO/RF.

[BadgersDeath]

I have installed all the required mods and I have booted KSP. My client seems to be stuck at the loading screen for 30+ minutes now. The FAQ says it should be 15 minutes so Im guessing something is wrong. Any Ideas? (I am using Active Texture Management)

Im sure someone has already had this issue but 183 pages of posts is tough to wade through even with search.

[Hodo]

I have installed all the required mods and I have booted KSP. My client seems to be stuck at the loading screen for 30+ minutes now. The FAQ says it should be 15 minutes so Im guessing something is wrong. Any Ideas? (I am using Active Texture Management)

Im sure someone has already had this issue but 183 pages of posts is tough to wade through even with search.

I had the same problem, go to the more aggressive ATM mode. If that does not work drop the planet factory plugin.

[CjStaal]

Where do I put the real fuels cfg?

[Hattivat]

That 15 minutes in FAQ is a massive understament. In my experience the RSS + Planet Factory takes somewhere between 30 minutes and an hour to start for the first time (took 53 minutes on my computer). Don't worry though, it's just the first time that it takes so long. Make sure you follow the instructions ("IF YOU ARE NOT USING THE DEFAULT RSS CONFIG you must delete all OBJ files in GameData/RealSolarSystem/Plugins/PluginData before launching with the new config.").

[BadgersDeath]

That 15 minutes in FAQ is a massive understament. In my experience the RSS + Planet Factory takes somewhere between 30 minutes and an hour to start for the first time (took 53 minutes on my computer). Don't worry though, it's just the first time that it takes so long. Make sure you follow the instructions ("IF YOU ARE NOT USING THE DEFAULT RSS CONFIG you must delete all OBJ files in GameData/RealSolarSystem/Plugins/PluginData before launching with the new config.").

Thanks Guys I will give it another (long) shot. Seems like a great pack so I hope it works.

[coldblade2000]

Hey, I'm the guy who made the Real Engines ignitor configs. I noticed an incompatibility with RO. You put in bobcat engines ignitor configs inside RO. This breaks compatibility and yours are also lacking pressure fed logic or accurate amount of ignitions. I edited your config to remove the Engine Ignitor configs. You can download the fixed CFG here: http://www./view/2n16pqnm1kfpibg/BobCat_Soviet_engines.cfg. This is to be placed in the Realism overhaul folder

[RedAV8R]

Hey, I'm the guy who made the Real Engines ignitor configs. I noticed an incompatibility with RO. You put in bobcat engines ignitor configs inside RO. This breaks compatibility and yours are also lacking pressure fed logic or accurate amount of ignitions. I edited your config to remove the Engine Ignitor configs. You can download the fixed CFG here: http://www./view/2n16pqnm1kfpibg/BobCat_Soviet_engines.cfg. This is to be placed in the Realism overhaul folder

That file has actually been deleted! Just need to release the latest version. I'll get NK to push the latest version as soon as I get home and push my latest updates. RealEngines will now be part of RO, includes ColdBlade2000's ignitors, automatic compatibility with RftS if a person decides they want that pack instead because they use RPL.

[coldblade2000]

Awesome! Hey, did you use the CFG I gave you in the pm?

BTW, what changes did RE get? Will I have to call it RAVRE now?

[jrandom]

That file has actually been deleted! Just need to release the latest version. I'll get NK to push the latest version as soon as I get home and push my latest updates. RealEngines will now be part of RO, includes ColdBlade2000's ignitors, automatic compatibility with RftS if a person decides they want that pack instead because they use RPL.

I'm currently using the RftS engine configs, but I don't have a full savegame up and running (just playing at shooting for the moon at present). When the next update comes out with RE included in RO, if we're not using RftS compatibility (which... how does that work? option? replace a config file?), how different are the RE engines?

[RedAV8R]

Awesome! Hey, did you use the CFG I gave you in the pm?

BTW, what changes did RE get? Will I have to call it RAVRE now?

Yep, sure did get the cfg in the PM. RE hasn't seen a lot of changes, mostly compatibility stuff right now. I will be adding SRBs and giving new engines from the supported packs a real life engine as well. For the sake of consistancy, most of the old engines will remain what they were after taking a closer look, it's really not as bad as I thought.

[RedAV8R]

I'm currently using the RftS engine configs, but I don't have a full savegame up and running (just playing at shooting for the moon at present). When the next update comes out with RE included in RO, if we're not using RftS compatibility (which... how does that work? option? replace a config file?), how different are the RE engines?

With the advent of the new ModuleManager, we can actually give RE stuff a condition to make it's updates only if RftS ISN'T installed...So if you want RE, just install RO like normal, it'll be included. If a person uses RPL (and therefore must use RftS), or wants to use RftS instead of RE, simply install RftS. Upon starting up KSP, ModuleManager will detect that RftS is present, and will therefore NOT make the RE updates. Trying to make things as easy as we can on the end user, especially those who lack the skills and/or knowledge of the inner workings of KSP.

As for the question of 'how different'...well I can't really answer that question as I don't use RftS. I'm a realist. I want real engines. So if you want a LR-91 with the looks and performance of the LR-91, use RE/RO, if you want some quasi-realistic engine that sounds like a real one but doesn't really have anything in the real world that matches it, then RftS is for you.

Edited June 21, 2014 by RedAV8R

[TeeGee]

Well, for the first time I have built a manned orbital vehicle that has made it to LEO. I finally decided to give this mod a try, got every mod I wanted in it (pretty much) up and running, slapped on mechjeb for delta v calculations, built a 3 stage kerolox rocket and launched 3 intrepid Kerbals into the black. I ended up giving too much delta v (8000 m/s because I like to be liberal with delta v) but couldn't throttle down when I was nearing apoapsis because I am using real engines and ignitors so I ended up in a 350 km/350 km orbit (after circularizing with my 5oo delta v crew pod). It happened too fast to compensate.

What really caught me by surprise was that pods no longer have control moment gyros, I had to use RCS to make attitude control adjustments. THAT put a HUGE grin on my face! Now all this mod needs is a realistic sound mod that can mute rocket engines using sfx from modularsfx (ahem atmosphere sound enhancement ahem). =)

I feel so accomplished right now. I am getting psyched up for my lunar mission and can't wait to get there! Then I'm gonna go to Mars... that will be super exciting because even WE haven't done that yet!

I'd like to say thank you to all of the creators of this terrific mod and its supported packs, it hits the sweet spot I wanted in KSP --- being close to realistic as possible. The only issue I had was taking a screenshot after making orbit, for some reason it wasn't recorded in the screenshots folder. Oh well.

I'm still debating whether I should build a space shuttle, I know I can but is it practical... hmmm. I'm sure I can build a space station with fewer launches using a heavy lift rather than using a shuttle.

Edited June 21, 2014 by TeeGee

[jrandom]

As for the question of 'how different'...well I can't really answer that question as I don't use RftS. I'm a realist. I want real engines. So if you want a LR-91 with the looks and performance of the LR-91, use RE/RO, if you want some quasi-realistic engine that sounds like a real one but doesn't really have anything in the real world that matches it, then RftS is for you.

All I really want is a nice range of realistic engines to choose from. I'm not concerned about them matching exactly the stats of engines that actually exist, just engines that behave like they should were they built in the real world. The reason I chose RftS this time around is that it covers more engines than RO, giving me a larger selection.

[coldblade2000]

> I ended up giving too much delta v (8000 m/s because I like to be liberal with delta v)

How DID you cram in an extra 8km/s DV? That number is something people spend hours on working to get. Also that doesn't seem enough to make orbit anyway, especially a 350km one.

> I feel so accomplished right now. I am getting psyched up for my lunar mission and can't wait to get there! Then I'm gonna go to Mars... that will be super exciting because even WE haven't done that yet!

Don't worry, the roller coaster of emotions in a lunar trip are incredible, it is definitely worth it.

>I'm still debating whether I should build a space shuttle, I know I can but is it practical... hmmm. I'm sure I can build a space station with fewer launches using a heavy lift rather than using a shuttle.

Build the shuttle. You learn a lot of stuff along the way: Building a re-entry capable space plane, flying a brick, learning to deal with off-center thrust, SRB's, huge tanks that need to be aerodynamical, using 3 gimbaling engines, having an extremely low amount of orbit delta-v (about 400m/s), learning to adapt your payloads instead of your rockets (you have to make the payload fit), weird angle dockings, putting RCS on abnormal rockets. Since you do the same type of launch a lot of times, you learn to optimize it perfectly and make orbit with as little fuel as possible. I, an experienced player (I've got to the moon and back with engine ignitor, built countless stations, organized over 5 GEO satellite arrays and have a fleet of extremely optimized rockets) still haven't been able to make a shuttle. I wish I could reap those benefits. It is in no way easy, but it gives a lot of advantages. Good luck anyway.

Edited June 22, 2014 by coldblade2000

[Agathorn]

Hey guys.

Been away form KSP and RO for a long time, busy with other things. Want to jump back in and start up with it all again.

Is the front post still up to date with setting it all up, or is there anything else I need to be aware of? Last time I messed with this all seems to be about February So it has been a while.

[Hodo]

Hey guys.

Been away form KSP and RO for a long time, busy with other things. Want to jump back in and start up with it all again.

Is the front post still up to date with setting it all up, or is there anything else I need to be aware of? Last time I messed with this all seems to be about February So it has been a while.

Yeah pretty much, everything is up to date up there last I checked a week ago.

[TeeGee]

> I ended up giving too much delta v (8000 m/s because I like to be liberal with delta v)

How DID you cram in an extra 8km/s DV? That number is something people spend hours on working to get. Also that doesn't seem enough to make orbit anyway, especially a 350km one.

> I feel so accomplished right now. I am getting psyched up for my lunar mission and can't wait to get there! Then I'm gonna go to Mars... that will be super exciting because even WE haven't done that yet!

Don't worry, the roller coaster of emotions in a lunar trip are incredible, it is definitely worth it.

>I'm still debating whether I should build a space shuttle, I know I can but is it practical... hmmm. I'm sure I can build a space station with fewer launches using a heavy lift rather than using a shuttle.

Build the shuttle. You learn a lot of stuff along the way: Building a re-entry capable space plane, flying a brick, learning to deal with off-center thrust, SRB's, huge tanks that need to be aerodynamical, using 3 gimbaling engines, having an extremely low amount of orbit delta-v (about 400m/s), learning to adapt your payloads instead of your rockets (you have to make the payload fit), weird angle dockings, putting RCS on abnormal rockets. Since you do the same type of launch a lot of times, you learn to optimize it perfectly and make orbit with as little fuel as possible. I, an experienced player (I've got to the moon and back with engine ignitor, built countless stations, organized over 5 GEO satellite arrays and have a fleet of extremely optimized rockets) still haven't been able to make a shuttle. I wish I could reap those benefits. It is in no way easy, but it gives a lot of advantages. Good luck anyway.

I made it into that orbit with ~8000 m/s delta v... it takes 7500 m/s to make LEO doesn't it? I reached the 350 apoapsis with my second stage by accident, my periaps was about 23 km. I staged and used 73.5 m/s delta v to circularize.

I think u may have misunderstood me. I'll try to be more clear in the future.

I've built shuttles before with FAR and B9. the CoM and thrust vectoring are a huge pain in the butt. Gimbaled engines help, but I have the most problems with the SRB's and getting them to counter balance the 3 SSME engines. If it isn't perfect, the entire thing flips. And that's without payloads!

If I decide to build a shuttle, it is going to have to lift as much if not more than the RL shuttle, function exactly the same way and have the exact same specs (almost). It can be done, it will just take a lot of trial and error. If I can improve on the shutle design, I will, but as of right now I need to get it off the ground first.

Honestly, I would much rather have a kerolox based shuttle rather than a hydrolox based shuttle BUT the SSME's are designed for hydrolox and they are one of the few rocket engines that can throttle... something that is very important when attached to psychopathic boosters like SRB's.

[Agathorn]

Yeah pretty much, everything is up to date up there last I checked a week ago.

Thanks! I'll get started on the process

[coldblade2000]

If you reach orbit with 8km/s you're already better than me. Unless you mean your SPEED in orbit is 8km/s. As far as I know, it is pretty much impossible to get to orbit with less than 8700m/s dv.

[RedAV8R]

Well, for the first time I have built a manned orbital vehicle that has made it to LEO. I finally decided to give this mod a try, got every mod I wanted in it (pretty much) up and running, slapped on mechjeb for delta v calculations, built a 3 stage kerolox rocket and launched 3 intrepid Kerbals into the black. I ended up giving too much delta v (8000 m/s because I like to be liberal with delta v) but couldn't throttle down when I was nearing apoapsis because I am using real engines and ignitors so I ended up in a 350 km/350 km orbit (after circularizing with my 5oo delta v crew pod). It happened too fast to compensate.

What really caught me by surprise was that pods no longer have control moment gyros, I had to use RCS to make attitude control adjustments. THAT put a HUGE grin on my face! Now all this mod needs is a realistic sound mod that can mute rocket engines using sfx from modularsfx (ahem atmosphere sound enhancement ahem). =)

I feel so accomplished right now. I am getting psyched up for my lunar mission and can't wait to get there! Then I'm gonna go to Mars... that will be super exciting because even WE haven't done that yet!

I'd like to say thank you to all of the creators of this terrific mod and its supported packs, it hits the sweet spot I wanted in KSP --- being close to realistic as possible. The only issue I had was taking a screenshot after making orbit, for some reason it wasn't recorded in the screenshots folder. Oh well.

I'm still debating whether I should build a space shuttle, I know I can but is it practical... hmmm. I'm sure I can build a space station with fewer launches using a heavy lift rather than using a shuttle.

This is great, thank you for your words!

[RedAV8R]

All I really want is a nice range of realistic engines to choose from. I'm not concerned about them matching exactly the stats of engines that actually exist, just engines that behave like they should were they built in the real world. The reason I chose RftS this time around is that it covers more engines than RO, giving me a larger selection.

Well, by the time things are said and done, most every realistic mod pack out there will have a RSS/RO configuration to go with it, add that to what RE does for 'semi-realistic' packs like AIES, KW, NP, and stock engines, and you'll have about any darn engine you'd want.

As of right now RftS has about 110 engines, while RE has about half that, tack on packs like FASA, OLDD, KerbX and a few others and this number increases ever close to what RftS has, and I haven't even done solids yet. Give it time, things are still in infancy at the time with RO/RE, so if you aren't worried about realism, then RftS is just fine.

[RedAV8R]

If you reach orbit with 8km/s you're already better than me. Unless you mean your SPEED in orbit is 8km/s. As far as I know, it is pretty much impossible to get to orbit with less than 8700m/s dv.

Yeah, TeeGee has to be talking about orbital velocity...gotta figure at least a 9.3km/s budget for LEO.

[RedAV8R]

Thanks! I'll get started on the process

If you have problems, shoot me a PM, I'll try to get you squared away.