[0.23.5] Realism Overhaul: ROv5.2 + Modlist for RSS 6/30/14

[HoneyFox]

Are there any adapters in any parts mods that let us connect the 1.25/2.5/3.25-meter parts to the 1/2/3/4-meter parts smoothly?

Interstage Fairing Base + Fuselage Fairings = PROFIT!

[jrandom]

Interstage Fairing Base + Fuselage Fairings = PROFIT!

I know, those things are great! I just... was hoping for a single part with no decoupler. I mean, there's a procedural adapter that comes with Procedural Dynamics, but you can't adjust the height. With the fairing bases/rings you have to use two of them (with the top one flipped around backwards), or use the interstage base which has that decoupler that doesn't seem to be deactivatable (unless I missed a key somewhere).

[AbeS]

I know e-dog is working on some conical stretchy tanks, or do you want the part to be just structural?

[TeeGee]

Alright finally got a working SSTO. Has about 6900 deltaV, TWR 2.21 and will get into orbit with a few hundred to spare. You can see the dry mass is incredibly small at a measly 12 tons. The big downside is the H2/LOX tank isn't heatshielded and so the craft can't actually reenter the atmosphere without eventually burning up. As far as I know there aren't any insulated tanks that are also heat shielded so I'm not entirely sure how to fix this problem. Any suggestions are welcome.

HOW did you do that?? I've been stacking 4x orange tanks and still can't get enough delta v to circularize my orbit!

What flight profile are you using? When does space start in the new realism mod?

[jrandom]

I know e-dog is working on some conical stretchy tanks, or do you want the part to be just structural?

I just need something structural so I can easily glue the resized parts and the non-resized parts together. In a perfect world I'd have a procedural one that also lets me adjust height and is also FAR-compatible. I also want procedural heat shields. And Engines. And... well, everything, now that I think about it. It would cut down on the number of parts in the VAB and be more flexible!

[Scripto23]

HOW did you do that?? I've been stacking 4x orange tanks and still can't get enough delta v to circularize my orbit!

What flight profile are you using? When does space start in the new realism mod?

Well the absolute key thing is maximum DRY weight reduction. I spent hours shaving off every tenth of a ton and even removed the RCS. The current dry weight of 12t is almost entirely engines. You'll also notice only one air intake per engine, in vanilla KSP this is borderline blasphemous. I found the extra weight wasn't worth the slightly higher altitude gained. For the ascent profile, I'll get up to about 31,000m and 1700m/s then switch to rocket mode and close the intakes, pitch up to about 40degrees and gun it until I hit target apoapsis, then circularize when appropriate. You should also be using the stretchy tanks as I've found they have a lighter dry mass than the solid tanks. Now I just wish I could have a pressurized heatshielded tank so I can actually reenter and land. Or procedural heatshields like jrandom suggested.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Scripto23

[metroidman63]

How many of the parts are actually resized at this point in time? I set up a separate installation for this mod and as I'm starting career mode, I have a 2m pod with 1.25m fuel tanks and engines (which are also renamed???). Help please...Gets me thinking that this mod is still a huge WIP but then I see things like replications of Voyager and Cassini and I think I'm just doing something wrong here. Asked in the RSS thread and didn't get much of a reply.

[ferram4]

Use stretchy tanks. Those will give you the proper size fuel tanks for this. Ignore the other fuel tanks, or remove them manually.

[jrandom]

For anyone who uses the fantastic ALCOR lander pod, I made a preliminary ALCOR RealismOverhaul rescale .cfg file. This should fit nicely under any service module built around the rescaled Mk1-2 pod.

I left the mass as-is and gave it 3060 units of electricity (assuming that any lander built around it will add more batteries). If anyone has suggestions on realistic values for mass and electricity, and SAS torque (if any), let me know and I'll update it.

[NathanKell]

jrandom: great! I'm totally stealing that for next RO.

Mass for LM ascent stage was ~5 tons including fuel and engine. Altair/LSAM had an ascent stage of similar mass IIRC, but a much larger descent stage.

Regarding electricity: that's less than 1kWhr. I suggest something on the order of 17kWhr inside the pod; the descent stage can make up the other ~60 for the lunar stay. (17 kWhr = 61,200 EC).

For torque, look at what I did to the pods in Pods_Squad.cfg - basically, no torque.

Scripto23: NICE!

[jrandom]

jrandom: great! I'm totally stealing that for next RO.

OMG... I'm... I'm a contributor! Woo!

Mass for LM ascent stage was ~5 tons including fuel and engine. Altair/LSAM had an ascent stage of similar mass IIRC, but a much larger descent stage.

I kept the mass down because I noticed the Mk1-2 was also lower in mass (4 tons) than the actual Apollo command module (I don't remember the mass... 14 tons?) and wanted to stay in line with that. The ALCOR pod is just the shell for the astronauts, so is the 1.whatever tons still workable? More mass will be added with fuel and engines and whatnot.

Regarding electricity: that's less than 1kWhr. I suggest something on the order of 17kWhr inside the pod; the descent stage can make up the other ~60 for the lunar stay. (17 kWhr = 61,200 EC).

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the units used. The value I used here was 1/4 that of the Mk1-2 command module, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Will the Mk1-2 pod rescale stay at 12,000 some-odd units of electricity capacity or will that number be going up? (Again, I was aiming for the ALCOR to be set up as a lightweight lander pod, as opposed to a main ship command module.)

For torque, look at what I did to the pods in Pods_Squad.cfg - basically, no torque.

I will double-check my numbers!

[TeeGee]

Use stretchy tanks. Those will give you the proper size fuel tanks for this. Ignore the other fuel tanks, or remove them manually.

Stretchy tanks? I downloaded it to play this mod but never really noticed it. Are they the different sized white tanks? They don't have reentry shielding, which makes what I am trying to go for moot.

[iornfence]

Stretchy tanks? I downloaded it to play this mod but never really noticed it. Are they the different sized white tanks? They don't have reentry shielding, which makes what I am trying to go for moot.

Regular tanks don't have reentry shielding save for some plane parts, so they aren't really the answer in your case either, if I understand correctly.

[TeeGee]

Well the absolute key thing is maximum DRY weight reduction. I spent hours shaving off every tenth of a ton and even removed the RCS. The current dry weight of 12t is almost entirely engines. You'll also notice only one air intake per engine, in vanilla KSP this is borderline blasphemous. I found the extra weight wasn't worth the slightly higher altitude gained. For the ascent profile, I'll get up to about 31,000m and 1700m/s then switch to rocket mode and close the intakes, pitch up to about 40degrees and gun it until I hit target apoapsis, then circularize when appropriate. You should also be using the stretchy tanks as I've found they have a lighter dry mass than the solid tanks. Now I just wish I could have a pressurized heatshielded tank so I can actually reenter and land. Or procedural heatshields like jrandom suggested.

What is the target apoapsis for rescaled kerbin? I reach 200km but dont have enough smash to circularize. I also reach Mach 5 b4 switching to rocket at 30km, yet I can't seem to reach orbit velocity.

[jrandom]

What is the target apoapsis for rescaled kerbin? I reach 200km but dont have enough smash to circularize. I also reach Mach 5 b4 switching to rocket at 30km, yet I can't seem to reach orbit velocity.

I've been circularizing my rocket orbits at 250km because that's what's on my delta-v chart as "low orbit". The atmosphere starts somewhere in the neighborhood of 104km.

[Silpion]

Hey, I just did an experiment to determine the amount of energy that 1 electric charge unit represents in the stock game. Thought you might be interested.

Method:

Launched into space a test object which was two full 9-ton FL-T800 tanks, each attached to an end of a tiny RC-001S Remote Guidance unit. I saw that with everything off I was consuming 0.05 charges/s, and when torquing on one axis I was pulling a total of 0.08 charges/s, for a net from the torque of 0.03 charges/s (the part file agrees with these figures).

I time-warped to null my rates, and then torqued perpendicular to a long axis (such that it was spinning end-over end) for 10 +/- 0.5 seconds on the game clock. I then used the game clock to time the rotation rate, and got 1 revolution each 47.75 +/- 0.25 seconds.

Using the part dimensions and masses, I can calculate the moment of intertia of the system, and with the rotation rate above, its energy. Thus we can get the energy per charge.

I'm not sure how the game engine calculates moment of inertia. Does it treat each tank as a solid body, or as a point mass at the COM?

Assuming as solid bodies, the answer is 890 +/- 90 J/charge

Assuming as point masses, the answer is 690 +/- 70 J/charge

Edited December 7, 2013 by Silpion

[NathanKell]

jrandom:

Apollo CM is 5.8t, which if you take a Mk1-2 pod, add heatshield, RCS, parachutes, docking port, etc., is about what you get.

But it really depends on how much you want to claim the habitat is in the descent stage (like Constellation) or the ascent stage (Apollo LM).

Regarding electricity: The Mk1-2 will stay around there. It's ~3.5 kWhr, and the rest should be in the service module. Note that to go from kWhr to EC, multiply by 3600 (i.e. 1EC = 1kJ aka 1kW-second, so *60*60 for 1 hour). Even though the ALCOR is lightweight, and the majority of the EC should be in the descent stage, you probably should have a minimum of 3kWhr in any crewed pod past, like, Mercury.

Silpion: 1 EC is designed to be 1kJ (aka 1EC/s = 1kW), so your number of 890 +- 90 means I got the torque charge usage pretty much correct. Which is nice, because it was mostly guessing.

[jrandom]

jrandom:

Apollo CM is 5.8t, which if you take a Mk1-2 pod, add heatshield, RCS, parachutes, docking port, etc., is about what you get.

But it really depends on how much you want to claim the habitat is in the descent stage (like Constellation) or the ascent stage (Apollo LM).

Regarding electricity: The Mk1-2 will stay around there. It's ~3.5 kWhr, and the rest should be in the service module. Note that to go from kWhr to EC, multiply by 3600 (i.e. 1EC = 1kJ aka 1kW-second, so *60*60 for 1 hour). Even though the ALCOR is lightweight, and the majority of the EC should be in the descent stage, you probably should have a minimum of 3kWhr in any crewed pod past, like, Mercury.

I'd consider the ALCOR pod part of the ascent stage for sure. I've gone ahead and updated the electricity capacity to 3kWhr.

In other news, the IonCross rescale is nearly done, and I really don't know just how badly I've screwed up on the math yet. Right now I'm having trouble getting the Oxygen mass/capacity to come out right in Stretchytanks, but as soon as I figure that out I'll post it and y'all can tell me how I can't add right.

What percentage of the volume of a stretchytank is used for its contents, anyhow? Is that alterable for specific payloads?

Edited December 7, 2013 by jrandom

[Tys]

Is there a way to have the rescaled engines and tanks but keep command modules and other stuff the same size?

Thanks.

[SFJackBauer]

RealEngines configs v0.6

Here is a set of ModuleManager cfgs to convert engines from some of the rocketry packs out there into realistic engines, with close-to-real sizes, and realistic stats.

Rocketry packs supported (and recommended)

• Stock Squad engines
  
• AIES Aerospace (assorted engines)
  
• Bobcat Soviet engines pack (russian engines)
  
• BT Engine Pack (Merlin 1D)
  
• F-1 Engine replica (need to replace the space from the partName with a underline though)
  
• KerbX (for SpaceX engines)
  
• KW Rocketry (mostly american and european engines)
  
• NovaPunch (assorted engines)
  
• RLA Stockalike alternative models (Shuttle OMS)
  
• Kosmos Spacecraft Bureau (russian engines)
  

If you are short on RAM, you can remove the fuel tanks and fairings from these mods and leave only the engines.

Install instructions

- Extract zip into GameData.

- Check that there is only the highest version of Klockheed_Martian/Plugins/km_Gimbal_?.?.dll (where ?.? is the version number) - you can delete any lower versions.

>> Download <<

License

- The configuration files redistributed here are licensed under CC BY-NC-SA.

- This mod does not include the parts cited above. You must download them separately.

- This mod includes dtobi's gimbal plugin. License located at its github repo.

Engine list

(Also published on Google Docs)

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Changelog

0.6.1

- Added RS-25D from dtobi's SSE pack

- Updated KM_Gimbal plugin dll - delete any older versions of the plugin in the Klockheed_Martian/Plugins folder

0.6

- Included dtobi's gimbal plugin as standard gimbal method for all engines

- Added coverage for Kosmos Spacecraft Design bureau engines

-- KB Khimavtomatiki RD-0146D

-- KB Khimavtomatiki RD-0146

-- KB Khimavtomatiki RD-0225

-- NPO Energomash RD-275K

-- SNTK Kuznetsov NK-33

-- RKK Energiya RD-58

- Set crashTolerance to 7m/s

- BreakingForce scaling with engine mass

- Adjusted RD-253 stats to be more correct

- Switched NovaPunch Basic Bertha Mini Quad (1.25m) from being RD-0124 to RD-0110

0.5.1

- Added attributes to all engines to help prevent unplanned rocket disassembly.

- Fixed gimbals for RS-25D.

0.5

- Finished coverage of stock Squad engines.

- Finished coverage of NovaPunch mod.

- Fixed attachment node on Aestus.

- Added :Final to rescale cfgs.

- Added fix for right-click on VAB the craft mass goes NaN.

- Fixed (again!) temperatures - no more Soviet engines blowing.

- Added the following real engines:

-- KB Yuzhnoye RD-855

-- KB Yuzhnoye RD-856

-- NPO Energomash RD-120

-- NPO Energomash RD-253

-- RKK Energiya RD-58

-- Rocketdyne H-1

-- Rocketdyne LR-89

-- Rocketdyne LR-105

0.4

If you have a folder in GameData named RealEngines, delete it - now the folder is called SFJBRealEngines.

- Adjusted AJ10-118K rescale

- Revised Russian engines TWR

- Fixed usage of Kerosene as fuel

- Revised gimbal ranges for all engines (careful when launching - use fine mode (Caps Lock)

- Added engines to proper TechLevel and TechTree nodes

- Fixed nodeSizes to properly support FAR

- Added minThust value so it shows on VAB tooltips

- Revised heatProduction values so the F1 does not explode two seconds after ignition

0.3.1

- Fixed a conflict with Bobcat's SovietEngines.

0.3

- Added minimum throttle setting for engines that support it

- Adjusted RL10 Isp and RD-170 mass

- Added in-game description for all engines

- Updated B9 rescale to include all HL fuselage parts

- Limited max TechLevel to 0, until proper TechLevel support is added

0.2

- Increased engine masses by 50% to account for thrust structure mass

- Added Tech Level 0 config so that engines now work with thrust curve from MFS

- Decreased upper/orbital engines sea-level Isp to properly account for the vacuum-optimized nozzle flow separation at sea level and low exit pressure

- Fixed relationship between vacuum and sea-level thrust for all engines

- Added a few more engines from NovaPunch

0.1

- Initial release.

Backlog

- Add stats for the engine ignitor mod.

- Engines have only one fuel/oxy mode, next I will add alternate modes (for the engines that had it in real life).

- Rescale solid rockets like the ones in KW and NP.

- There may be issues with engine shrouds, those configs disable them from KW engines but other packs I couldn't find a way to disable.

- As better 3D models of real engines becomes available, they will be used as best as possible. This may break existing crafts (though I don't see it happening too soon)

Edited February 22, 2014 by SFJackBauer

[DasBananenbrot]

RealEngines configs v0.1

Here is a set of ModuleManager cfgs to convert engines from some of the rocketry packs out there into realistic engines, with close-to-real sizes, and realistic stats.

This is a preliminar, but usable, version that covers only the basics, there is still lots of work to be done:

- No tech levels yet, I want to confirm first with MedievalNerd and Nathan how to best align with the TechTree and which criteria is best to use.

- Engines have only one fuel/oxy mode, next I will add alternate modes (for the engines that had it in real life).

- Masses may be too low, I have used masses quoted from various sources but as Nathan explained before, the thrust structure is not taken into account into those mentions. Since the StretchyTanks only account for the tank itself, there may be a need to increase the engine's masses.

- There may be issues with engine shrouds, those configs disable them from KW engines but other packs I couldn't find a way to disable.

- I want to add later stats for the engine ignitor mod, as well as throttleability (I have data on this for a handful of engines only, hopefully the community could help fill the blanks)

- As better 3D models of real engines becomes available, they will be used as best as possible. This may break existing crafts (though I don't see it happening too soon)

- Need to write good descriptions for the engines.

Pre-requisites

• ModularFuelTanks with RealFuels
  
• RealismOverhaul (duh )
  

Rocketry packs supported (and recommended)

• AIES Aerospace (assorted engines)
  
• Bobcat Soviet engines pack (russian engines)
  
• BT Engine Pack (Merlin 1D)
  
• F-1 Engine replica (need to remove the space from the partName though)
  
• KerbX (for SpaceX engines)
  
• KW Rocketry (mostly american and european engines)
  
• NovaPunch (partially, more support coming soon)
  
• RLA Stockalike alternative models (Shuttle OMS)
  

If you are short on RAM, you can remove the fuel tanks and fairings from these mods and leave only the engines.

Install instructions

- Extract zip into GameData

- Delete GameData\ModularFuelTanks\RealFuels\Engines.cfg (or rename to .cfgx as I do)

- Delete GameData\RealismOverhaul\RftSEngines.cfg (or rename to .cfgx as I do)

Download

BONUS

There is a bonus CFG rescaling some parts of B9 Aerospace pack to be compatible with the american orbiter. I will also update it alongside.

Engine list (v0.1)

[jrandom]

Does this RealEngines duplicate anything in the RealismOverhaul folder or can I safely put RealEngines into GameData/ with no other alterations? (Or do the .cfgs just go into RealismOverhaul/ ?)

[SFJackBauer]

Does this RealEngines duplicate anything in the RealismOverhaul folder or can I safely put RealEngines into GameData/ with no other alterations? (Or do the .cfgs just go into RealismOverhaul/ ?)

For organization sake I have put into a separate folder called RealEngines, although it could be anywhere inside GameData (thats how ModuleManager works). But since its changes conflict with MFS and RO previous changes, you must rename (or delete) two .cfgs as Ive explained above.

It does not duplicate anything.

I have added an image album link to the end of the release post (which is here).

@DasBananenbrot

LOL but no, this is a teamwork and my piece is a drop in the ocean compared to what has been done so far by these other guys.

Edited December 7, 2013 by SFJackBauer

[jrandom]

But since its changes conflict with MFS and RO previous changes, you must rename (or delete) two .cfgs as Ive explained above.

Whoops, missed that part! Unfortunately, I have a custom RftSEngines.cfg from NathanKell that... well, I can't remember why I have it now. Removes duplicates from the FASA.cfg file I have, maybe. Ack. If I have time later I can manually crawl through them...

[jrandom]

New rescale/realism .cfg file for IonCross Crew Support; needs testing!... people still use IonCross, right?...

IonCross_RealismOverhaul.zip

Changes

• Primary tanks and recyclers rescaled to 2/4m-diameter parts
  
• Recycler energy usage based on numbers from people talking fancy to me. Sounded right. Used 'em.
  
• Oxygen amounts based on standard 300kg / m^3 used in... the real world, I guess.
  
• IonCross usage units are still 1 unit per kerbal per hour. Oxygen mass has been scaled to 0.85kg used per hour.
  
• Recyclers no longer carry their own oxygen supply and are pure recycling parts
  
• ModularFuels support
  

Issues

• Could not figure out what IonCross' base ION_SUPPORT_RESOURCE for ElectricCharge in IoncrossResourcesBase.cfg was used for. Zeroed them out and nothing happened, so this section is disabled in the rescale .cfg for now. If anyone knows what I should put there, please let me know.
  
• The volumes of oxygen that will fit into StretchyTanks appears to be slightly lower than what I was calculating by hand -- the IonCross tanks are 80% storage space by total volume. Shouldn't be too much of an issue, and the oxygen mass for StretchyTanks appears all fine and well.
  

I've been doing small test flights today but haven't tried out every possible thing in full, so if there are still any IonCross users left who use RealismOverhaul, give this a try and please let me know if you find any issues.