[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[taniwha]

The timed builds actually make things easier: you can operate with much smaller storage if you generate it while building. For bases, I tend to fly in just enough RocketParts to build a miner/smelter/parts converter unit. Stations are a little harder because you always have to fly supplies to them.

Another game-play aspect of timed builds is you need to plan your builds around launch windows. Planning can involve better timing of when to begin the build, or adding more productive kerbals to the job (I haven't attempted to implement The Mythical Man Month, partly because I don't know any details, but also that would probably not be all that fun).

Also, it seems that you may have forgotten that Kerbals and time itself are resources.

[Murdabenne]

This is marked as 1.0.4 compatible, but it depends on KIS, which is still sitting at 1.0.2. CKAN is blocking on the install because its waiting on KIS to be marked compatible. If the author posts that its probably safe, then I'll put in an override in CKAN to mark as compatible with 1.0.4 (as well as overriding KIS) and that lets CKAN install it for those users.

[vardicd]

This is marked as 1.0.4 compatible, but it depends on KIS, which is still sitting at 1.0.2. CKAN is blocking on the install because its waiting on KIS to be marked compatible. If the author posts that its probably safe, then I'll put in an override in CKAN to mark as compatible with 1.0.4 (as well as overriding KIS) and that lets CKAN install it for those users.

I've been using KIS on 1.04 and haven't had any issues come up yet.

[taniwha]

Murdabenne: *shrug* KIS seems to work quite well. I've been moving solar panels and radiator arrays around the place without any issues I didn't have in 1.0.2 (ie, FAR not liking KIS). Also, KIS is not a hard dependency of EL*, so CKAN blocking EL because of KIS is inappropriate in the first place. KIS should be a "recommends" (or maybe "suggests") instead of a "depends" (to use debian terminology).

* KIS is needed only for survey builds. While a fairly important feature, EL is perfectly usable without it.

[GokouZWAR]

The only parts that do recycling in EL are the two recycling bins.

Just a quick question on this, what is the difference between them other than one is small and one is large. They both seem to work equally well but is there a lower conversion rate of metal on the smaller one or something?

- - - Updated - - -

This is marked as 1.0.4 compatible, but it depends on KIS, which is still sitting at 1.0.2. CKAN is blocking on the install because its waiting on KIS to be marked compatible. If the author posts that its probably safe, then I'll put in an override in CKAN to mark as compatible with 1.0.4 (as well as overriding KIS) and that lets CKAN install it for those users.

It "says" that its not compatible but its just that it hasn't been recompiled on the new 1.0.4 version API. It still works just fine. I've been using KIS and KAS with no "new" issues (still got the ones that have been around before 1.0.4). Just click past the thing and it still loads and runs fine (at least for me it has).

[taniwha]

GokouZWAR: No difference (at this stage, anyway). I did the small one first, put it on a truck-bed, and it was way too small (looked wrong) so I made the big one.

[GokouZWAR]

taniwha:One final unfortunate bug I discovered yesterday, The small fuel tanks. Whenever I selected I wanted to load 50% of the fuel into the tank it would give me a full tank. Whenever I selected 25% it would give me a half tank.

Check this short highlight video from my stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gokouzwar/c/6893843

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry I goofed when i made the video and apparently made it a full hour long. You should see the bug in the first minute. Nothing else is relevant.

- - - Updated - - -

one final note (sorry about these extra thoughts) this is on 5.1.95 not the new 5.2.0.

- - - Updated - - -

new bug: I loaded 5.2.0 and now I can't use the UI on the orbital launchpads. Also the construction workshops are not showing productivity and such...I'm streaming now if you want to see: http://www.twitch.tv/gokouzwar

[Murdabenne]

Murdabenne: *shrug* KIS seems to work quite well. I've been moving solar panels and radiator arrays around the place without any issues I didn't have in 1.0.2 (ie, FAR not liking KIS). Also, KIS is not a hard dependency of EL*, so CKAN blocking EL because of KIS is inappropriate in the first place. KIS should be a "recommends" (or maybe "suggests") instead of a "depends" (to use debian terminology).

* KIS is needed only for survey builds. While a fairly important feature, EL is perfectly usable without it.

OK I'll fix that and put the metadata straight, with KIS as a "recommends". How CKAN works is: "recommend" means they add it to the install list with the checkbox checked but the user can opt out (incheck the box), "suggest" means its there but the user has to opt in by putting the checkmark in the box. Look for it on the next run (about an hour or 2). Thanks for such a great mod!

[taniwha]

GokouZWAR: Shock, horror, I had a bit of time to watch.

Odd, very odd, I suspect something is being applied twice. I've found a bug elsewhere (canceling a build seems to be instant, at least when the RocketParts tanks are full) so I'll add this to my list.

Murdabenne: cool, and nice to know that's how CKAN works.

[Murdabenne]

BTW, CKAN can pull your zip file directly from github if you want them to track your latest release automatically. This means CKAN (and people bugging you for it to show up there) can automagically grab the latest release, cutting back on your workload a bit. Especially when Squad throws in a hotfix patch like 1.0.4, letting you tag and release to make it compatible.

Anyway, I put this in as compatible for the range from 1.0.2 thru 1.0.4 inclusive based on your comments here - let me know if you want this automated to grab the zip off github instead of your website. It would still direct people here for the forum thread, and to github for bugs.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Murdabenne
typo

[GokouZWAR]

GokouZWAR: Shock, horror, I had a bit of time to watch.

Odd, very odd, I suspect something is being applied twice. I've found a bug elsewhere (canceling a build seems to be instant, at least when the RocketParts tanks are full) so I'll add this to my list.

Its not "instant" it still does the teardown, but it doesn't block your ability to do more stuff. Now it COULD be instant I suppose but it does set a timer on kerbal alarm clock telling me when the build is done tearing down. Actually I guess that is just the alarm and its probably instant so nvm.

One big annoying bug in 5.2.0 is that I couldn't open the UI at all. I tried to build a new ship and that one didn't open either. It also didn't show productivity. I rolled back to 5.1.95 and it worked fine so I'll wait till the next build to try again. 5.1.95 seems to be working ok for me and I don't use the launchpad workshop thing anyway. I haven't found a practical use for it yet.

[GokouZWAR]

I think I found it in your source but i'm not entirely sure if this is right:

        private void TransferResources ()
        {
            foreach (var br in buildCost.optional) {
                var a = [COLOR=#ff0000]padResources.TransferResource[/COLOR] (br.name, -br.amount);
                a += br.amount;
                var b = [COLOR=#ff0000]craftResources.TransferResource[/COLOR] (br.name, a);
                padResources.TransferResource (br.name, ;
            }
        }

From the looks of it, we're transferring padResources and craftResources into the vessel. I'm not sure what the differences between them are but this sends up some red flags to me. I haven't gone through the code a lot, but they're both defined as "vesselResrouces" objects:

        
public VesselResources padResources
        {
            get;
            private set;
        }
        public VesselResources craftResources
        {
            get;
            private set;
        }

Either way whatever this is doing it looks like it is transferring resources twice for each resource in the ship. It would make sense why i put 25% and then fill the ship half way and then 50% to fill it full.

[Murdabenne]

CKAN is pending my pull request, should be done shortly.

edit: complete.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Murdabenne

[GokouZWAR]

I think I found it in your source but i'm not entirely sure if this is right:

        private void TransferResources ()
        {
            foreach (var br in buildCost.optional) {
                var a = [COLOR=#ff0000]padResources.TransferResource[/COLOR] (br.name, -br.amount);
                a += br.amount;
                var b = [COLOR=#ff0000]craftResources.TransferResource[/COLOR] (br.name, a);
                padResources.TransferResource (br.name, ;
            }
        }

From the looks of it, we're transferring padResources and craftResources into the vessel. I'm not sure what the differences between them are but this sends up some red flags to me. I haven't gone through the code a lot, but they're both defined as "vesselResrouces" objects:

        
public VesselResources padResources
        {
            get;
            private set;
        }
        public VesselResources craftResources
        {
            get;
            private set;
        }

Either way whatever this is doing it looks like it is transferring resources twice for each resource in the ship. It would make sense why i put 25% and then fill the ship half way and then 50% to fill it full.

Nvm all this. I looked at it more closely and this is correct. I'm looking at the "a +=" call tho, i'm trying to understand why its adding the amount to the value its already set to. To me the "var a" is getting the amount from the transferResources call and then its adding br.amount to it again...that might be the issue but i'm trying to analyze it a little more.

[Dragon_Lance]

I was wondering what the best method is for increasing the time it takes to build craft using progressive build. Right now I have a dock in orbit with four decent engineers and it can finish a small satellite in about a minute, which just doesn't feel right to me.

I checked all the cfgs I could find, but there is no universal setting for efficiency or anything like that. Does that mean I'll have to manually adjust the efficiency of each workshop part? Or is there a more elegant solution?

Also, I want to emphasize that I love this mod and really appreciate all the hard everyone puts into it.

[ABZB]

Question, I'm using EPL and the EPL part hider for stock ISRU installed from CKAN. It seems to have gotten rid of the old recycle bin. It's removed in the part hider .cfg. I was wondering if there is another part that I'm not seeing which replaces the functionality of the recycle bin?

That's the one I uploaded, I think. Just delete the line

!PART[ELRecycleBin*]{}

(it should be line 37 or so)

[taniwha]

BTW, CKAN can pull your zip file directly from github if you want them to track your latest release automatically. This means CKAN (and people bugging you for it to show up there) can automagically grab the latest release, cutting back on your workload a bit. Especially when Squad throws in a hotfix patch like 1.0.4, letting you tag and release to make it compatible.

Actually, the main reason I don't push a zip to github is I don't have any command line tools to do so (and thus allow me to add it to the Makefile). I like automation

Anyway, I put this in as compatible for the range from 1.0.2 thru 1.0.4 inclusive based on your comments here - let me know if you want this automated to grab the zip off github instead of your website. It would still direct people here for the forum thread, and to github for bugs.

EL's use of KSPAPIExt could cause issues, but I believe it was just a version update this time (NathanKell did the work for me).

One big annoying bug in 5.2.0 is that I couldn't open the UI at all. I tried to build a new ship and that one didn't open either. It also didn't show productivity. I rolled back to 5.1.95 and it worked fine so I'll wait till the next build to try again. 5.1.95 seems to be working ok for me and I don't use the launchpad workshop thing anyway. I haven't found a practical use for it yet.

I had that once. Right clicking on the part and clicking "show ui" wouldn't work, but even blizzy's toolbar was broken (it would not come down from the top of the screen). Either a save/load or a KSP restart fixed it.

Nvm all this. I looked at it more closely and this is correct. I'm looking at the "a +=" call tho, i'm trying to understand why its adding the amount to the value its already set to. To me the "var a" is getting the amount from the transferResources call and then its adding br.amount to it again...that might be the issue but i'm trying to analyze it a little more.

Note that the minus sign in the amount parameter in padResources.TransferResource (br.name, -br.amount);. TransferResource (in Resources/Resources.cs) returns the amount (+ve or -ve) that it did not transfer (or at least is supposed to).

The idea is the first transfer takes the resource from the mother ship (thus -ve amount) and a is set to the amount not taken (due to insufficient supplies), the second line adjusts the request by this amount and puts the result into a. The amount is then put into the daughter ship in the thrid line. The amount not transfered (due to the daughter ship being [partially] full, usually EC, but something else may have done a transfer) is then returned to the mother ship in the fourth line. Yeah, it's a little complicated, and names better than a and b would probably help.

I was wondering what the best method is for increasing the time it takes to build craft using progressive build. Right now I have a dock in orbit with four decent engineers and it can finish a small satellite in about a minute, which just doesn't feel right to me.

I checked all the cfgs I could find, but there is no universal setting for efficiency or anything like that. Does that mean I'll have to manually adjust the efficiency of each workshop part? Or is there a more elegant solution?

Also, I want to emphasize that I love this mod and really appreciate all the hard everyone puts into it.

Sorry, at the moment, there is no way as the KerbalHours is currently hard-coded. Once I get these two bugs sorted out, I plan on working on recipes, and then nothing will be hard-coded, not even "RocketParts".

That said, if you are willing and able to build EL yourself[*], you can edit KerbalHours() in Recipes/BuildResource.cs to suit your needs.

* You will need mono, git, make, and, if you are using windows, msys, unless you create your own project files.

[Dragon_Lance]

Thanks for the answer, taniwha. I think I'll just settle for having fewer kerbals in my workshop, though

[taniwha]

Dragon_Lance: Understandable. Oh, another option is to use the Rocket Workbench (in command pods): max of four kerbals, and its productivity factor is only 1. It has no resource storage, but is otherwise just as capable as the big workshop (if not slightly more as it allows control of the vessel due to the command seats). It's also movable via KIS using two kerbals .

GokouZWAR: good news: I have (mostly) figured out both bugs: the teardown is indeed bailing out if there is no room for the resources, and for some reason BuildControl.TransferResources is getting called twice.

[edit]Already pushed the fix to the doubled resources. The commit message was more difficult than the fix

[edit 2]And the instant teardown was almost as easy.

Edited June 29, 2015 by taniwha

[GokouZWAR]

Sweet! Great news. Is the build available on here?

What was the cause of the resource transfer?

[taniwha]

GokouZWAR: sorry, no build yet. Hopefully tonight (Japan time). I wanted to do one last night, but then I realized I should do some more testing. I did, however, manage to put together a space plane (holding 13 kerbals) and get it to my station with 1m/s remaining in the tanks (in FAR )..

As for the bug... the relevant commit.

[GokouZWAR]

GokouZWAR: sorry, no build yet. Hopefully tonight (Japan time). I wanted to do one last night, but then I realized I should do some more testing. I did, however, manage to put together a space plane (holding 13 kerbals) and get it to my station with 1m/s remaining in the tanks (in FAR )..

As for the bug... the relevant commit.

Waiting anxiously for the new build!

[taniwha]

I have released version 5.2.1 of EL. Links in the first post.

Changes from 5.2.0:

• Fix doubled resources on partial fills (thanks to GokouZWAR for the heads-up and initial stabs at finding the bug).
  
• Fix early completion of build teardown when out of storage for the resources.
  

[Horus]

Archive named as "Extraplanetary_Launchpads_v5.2.0.zip"

[taniwha]

Sorry, forgot one edit in the post (now fixed). The correct file is actually there, so just change the 0 to 1 in the url.