taniwha Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Just so long as I know what what's needed (to save me the hassle of figuring out why the file won't load). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalashalska Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 DivisionByZero: Wow, thank you. I've had trouble finding that information.However, units for Kethane converter inputs are in resource units, so that 3.484u/s translates to 95.81kg/s of ore. By your figures, that's 13.8MW: nowhere near as scary as if the inputs were in tons, but still a scary amount.That said, if I make the smelter consume appropriate amounts of liquid fuel (generally assumed to be RP-1) and oxidizer (at a starved ratio, probably half that of an engine), then it should be very achievable. It was just this sort of balanacing that has delayed the "release" of Aeon Phoenix's new smelter.LF cannot be RP-1. The LV-909 is a pure combustion engine with an isp higher than RP-1's theoretical maximum. I would guess hydrogen, which Interstellar assumes LF is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 LF cannot be RP-1. The LV-909 is a pure combustion engine with an isp higher than RP-1's theoretical maximum. I would guess hydrogen, which Interstellar assumes LF is.LiquidFuel may or may not be RP-1, but it most assuredly is not liquid hydrogen: it is 14x too dense. The resource density of LF is 0.005t/u which works out to 1t/m3*. The ISp of an LV-909 might be a bit high for RP-1, and the only substance with a density of 1t/m3 is water, but that's nothing to trying to explain how you crammed 14m3 worth of hydrogen into 1m3 (and no liquid is that compressible).*There are arguments that say resources are 173u/m3 instead of 200, but that doesn't reduce the density sufficiently for liquid hydrogen to be even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallinu Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yeah, KSPI's assumption that LiquidFuel is hydrogen is a bad assumption, sadly. It would be nice if he'd add Hydrogen as a separate resource. Maybe some future version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donziboy2 Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Yeah, KSPI's assumption that LiquidFuel is hydrogen is a bad assumption, sadly. It would be nice if he'd add Hydrogen as a separate resource. Maybe some future version...Maybe you should ask on the KSPI thread instead?Edit.... Or he can answer it from a while back....For the purpose of this mod, I'm assuming LiquidFuel is Hydrogen. That is primarily for convenience, I don't want to clutter up everyone's part lists with a million extra fuel tanks especially when Hydrogen would become the default fuel for almost everything in the mod. Edited April 7, 2014 by Donziboy2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathFromBelow Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) After playing around with 4.1 some more I've found it actually only releases with progressive builds turned on. Additionally after something is built the game won't load anything, go to the space center or switch crafts. A work around for this is to quick save, reload KSP, and then load the quicksave.You're right. I just tested this with a clean KSP 0.23.5 install. Turn off progressive builds (TimedBuilds = False in persistent.txt) and it won't release newly built ships, and regardless of whether it's on or off you can't go back to KSC/revert flight after building something.Your quicksave/force-quit workaround works, but this is obviously something that needs to be fixed to make the mod usable. Edited April 7, 2014 by DeathFromBelow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yeah, I just haven't had time or energy to do coding of late (new job), but I have been doing plenty of thinking on ways of improving things (you get a lot of time to think when spraying machine oil off round lumps of metal with compressed air). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasmic Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Regarding LiquidFuel, my favorite way of looking at it is that it is neither RP-1 or LH2, nor any other known propellant - instead, it is a type of fuel invented by the Kerbals whose name is LiquidFuel. By mixing it with handwavium, it can be made to have many different performances, depending on what is desirable in the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellven Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I realize nobody really cares, but a couple of years ago, I was screwing with the then brand new resource defs, and figured out:Liquid fuel was probably some hydrazine derivative based on density and stoichiometrics, nothing else matched. I'd considered it LH2 when I had the broadsword engines going(I assume that's where the SABRE/RAPIER name joke comes from), but the numbers just don't work.Intake air and Oxidizer are the same thing(huge surprise there, I know)The air intakes are also magic vacuum cleaners that generate 100m/s of suction w/o any energy input, regardless of flight conditions.I also think Oxidizer matched relatively well with LOX, but memory's not 100% on that. So the air intakes are not only magic, they contain an oxygen separator/condenser/cryogenic system(all with no power input).Some/all of that may/may not be true anymore, but figured I'd post it again, just in case anyone was planning on fooling with resources.Oh, and the atmosphere density is completely screwball also, which results in an invariant mach velocity everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merendel Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (I assume that's where the SABRE/RAPIER name joke comes from)The SABRE is actually a real life design with at least one derivative design with a sword themed name. The jokes more likely stem from there with KSP continuing the tradition with the RAPIER which is their own version of the SABRE design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalashalska Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Gaseous hydrogen can be compressed far past the density of liquid hydrogen, if it is not cooled. That or it's liquid hydrogen with solid hydrogen mixed in.Either way, it's not any fuel currently used by a modern space program. It could possibly be methane, which has a higher ISP than RP-1 and also more density than hydrogen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathFromBelow Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 The aircraft fuel tanks say danger: kerosene on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellven Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Sorry, didn't make it clear, the broadswords were SABRE engines, the game just couldn't handle curved colliders, and I wasn't about to model them, so they became straight.Ok, tried working the fuel thing again, but found another problem, can continue it over here where it belongs.On topic, had an idea which really appealed to me. Since taniwha apparently understands how to muck around with terrain editing and static planetary objects; how many people would give their left arm to see these again?<insert darkness joke here>It's probably obvious where I'm going with this. Instead of just having deployable launchpads, go with deployable resource extractors too. And while you're at it, might as well add in power and local storage facilities. And since it's just so terribly easy, have them all operate in a global C# object instead of local gameobject scripts so they can simulate function statistically when out of focus. And make system/planetary/local GUIs for managing it all, as it's really not much more work. And can I get some cake over here, and a drink, and a pony, and a treehouse, and...by Wednesday, great thanks.As far as that deployment mechanic quandry goes, I see two main ways of doing it.-In flight part that activates, either spawning some effect based on it's location, may/not consume vessel in process. Trivial except for finding a reasonable offset if required.-Location based system. Couple of ways to do that too, might want to see how KAS does the attach-pylon-to-ground-with-ghost-object bit. Other way might be map based, but that would require a map function, which could be a nightmare if KSP GUI programming is still the arcane dinosaur that made Captain Kludge flee in terror.Probably doesn't help much, but all I got on the mechanical angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merendel Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 ; how many people would give their left arm to see these again?http://blog.dontfearthemutant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/tugg2-150x150.jpgOh thats a blast from the past, Arnt those the old SWG large mineral extractors? been a long time sence I've seen those but it would be cool to have those as mining rigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlwind Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Oh thats a blast from the past, Arnt those the old SWG large mineral extractors? been a long time sence I've seen those but it would be cool to have those as mining rigs.Gawd I miss the SWG mining system, not just the extractors, but the whole shifting mineral system with varying traits for each mineral that resulted in different quality goods. Why has no other MMO ever done a crafting system that good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westi29 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Can I land on the runway, say on Laythe, and click recover vessel? Or do I have to drive the vessel into a Recycle Bin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienCollective Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 You're right. I just tested this with a clean KSP 0.23.5 install. Turn off progressive builds (TimedBuilds = False in persistent.txt) and it won't release newly built ships, and regardless of whether it's on or off you can't go back to KSC/revert flight after building something.Your quicksave/force-quit workaround works, but this is obviously something that needs to be fixed to make the mod usable.Even this didn't work for me. With TimedBuilds on, the ship would appear but right-clicking on any module didn't work, nor was I able to perform any action that caused me to switch away from the view, such as returning to space centre, switching to a ship in the map view, etc. After disabling TimedBuilds, that was no longer an issue, but now clicking Release causes me to have resources deducted without a ship appearing.Version: 0.23.5Mods: Engineer, EPL, Kethane, KWRocketry, NASA, Protractor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shalashalska Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 You need to drive it into a recycle bin. It will give you the mass in metal and the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westi29 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 You need to drive it into a recycle bin. It will give you the mass in metal and the fuel.Thanks!It would be sweet if the Recycle Bin could have a hangar or building look to it that you could drive in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merendel Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 It would be sweet if the Recycle Bin could have a hangar or building look to it that you could drive in!you could build a hanger out of structural panels with the recycling bin inside somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logris Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Even this didn't work for me. With TimedBuilds on, the ship would appear but right-clicking on any module didn't work, nor was I able to perform any action that caused me to switch away from the view, such as returning to space centre, switching to a ship in the map view, etc. After disabling TimedBuilds, that was no longer an issue, but now clicking Release causes me to have resources deducted without a ship appearing.Version: 0.23.5Mods: Engineer, EPL, Kethane, KWRocketry, NASA, ProtractorI was also having this problem, but I have now fixed it.I had BahamutoD's parts and was trying to build a vessel containing the 3D printer.Someone else was having a different problem with these parts which was traced back to the animation module.When I removed this from my craft file, it worked fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viaharo Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Everything works great, except for releasing a ship. When built the release command flashes up in the build window and then vanishes. No further control of the launch pad and or new ship is possible from there on. Can return to the launch start and or return to the Vab/sph just fine. Just no releasing the ships :-) Please advise. Clean 23.5 install with only kethane and EPL installed. Funny thing is that it did once work!!! now nada. yes they are also fresh saves and timedbuild's is set to false :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westi29 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I use this mod and Bobcat's H.O.M.E. mod which has a fuel generator, but you need to be on Kerbin or Laythe for it to work. You will also need a bunch of power and air intakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taniwha Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 I've started poking at the release issue. I suspect it's merely a state issue, but I've noticed that I get an NRE in a supposedly unrelated place (orbit renderer!) that might be causing problems. Anyway, the real reason for the delay is I've been watching 5th Horseman's series (rather enjoying it) rather than coding (also adjusting to my new job). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienCollective Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I was also having this problem, but I have now fixed it.I had BahamutoD's parts and was trying to build a vessel containing the 3D printer.Someone else was having a different problem with these parts which was traced back to the animation module.When I removed this from my craft file, it worked fine.Thanks for the suggestion. I too have the 3D printer in the vessel. When I get home, I'll try undocking it and see if that makes the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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