[WIP] *EXPIRED THREAD* Kerbal Construction Time - see new thread for latest version

[Ekku Zakku]

This project is now owned by magico13! I decided I wasn't able to finish development of the mod due to life reasons, so I wanted to hand it over to somebody who was already familiar with the code and did his own development for the mod already. Good luck magico13, I know you'll make the mod what it needs to be =)

NEW THREAD HERE: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69310-WIP-0-23-5-Kerbal-Construction-Time-PreRelease-5-%284-30-14%29

I will update this thread with more details when they become available; I'm sure magico will want to make his own dev thread, and as such, this one will likely be closed down at some point. Thanks for all the input you guys have given me, I'm sorry that I'm not the one to finish this mod. I had a lot of fun though, and I hope that it will turn out to be what I envisioned it to be!

This is my WIP plugin, brought up from this thread. I realized that this was the kind of thing that I always felt KSP needed, and took it upon myself to make a mod to make it happen (and to test my skills as an upcoming professional programmer). KSP needs more "space program" elements, and while Squad is currently implementing career mode, it seems like it will be a while (if ever) before they implement some time elements to it.

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/kct/ Alpha Version 3: Editor Clock!

There is a bug with the current version; when construction is complete, the vessel on the launchpad is still empty of all resources. To get around this, press the "Warp to Launch" button when construction is complete in order to fill the vessel up with resources This will be fixed in the next version!

Source Code

Disclaimer: this mod currently may have undesired effects with mods such as ones that add life support, as it removes all resources currently in a vessel. This will be dealt with in later updates!

This mod makes rockets take time to build, rather than being put instantly on the launchpad ready to go.

My planned feature set is:

• Rockets take time to build. ✓
  (TODO: work on a build time algorithm to make things balanced and believable)
  
• Rockets in construction are added to a list, and cannot be put on the launchpad until they are ready. (This will require saving to a file, to prevent loss of craft)
  
• Warp to launch button, in order to skip to when a rocket is ready. ✓
  
• While warping to launch, stop warp if a vessel crosses into another SOI. ✓
  
• Launch Simulation, to test a rocket before it is launched, while not disrupting your save.
  (I like the idea of this; if a rocket passes the simulation without exploding, it could still explode on the real launch! This adds a bit more realism, and gives some much needed uncertainty to the game)
  
• With Launch Simulations, allow a user to make changes to a craft and update it in the build list.
  
• Research takes time, unlocked parts aren't available immediately.
  
• Lowering construction time based on repeated builds of the same craft. In addition to/alternatively, give an option for "Experimental" and "Production" rockets/planes to help minimize construction times (this idea popped into my head recently, not sure if it's what I want to do in the end, but I thought it might be worth looking into).
  
• Clock in the VAB/SPH to tell the user how long a rocket will take to build. ✓
  
• Update a rocket that is in construction or ready, in case a flaw is noticed too late (perhaps a "rollback from pad" option as well? I'll deal with that when I get to it).
  
• Possible integration with Kerbal Alarm Clock.
  

This mod, from my point of view, will add a lot more incentive to run more missions at once. Adding a realistic time element that will cost the player in time (currently to no effect) if they launch craft linearly, without considering that they should plan ahead and have them ready to go beforehand. It also eliminates the slightly immersion breaking effect of KSC pumping out rockets like a broken fire hydrant.

I hope you enjoy this little demo of what's to come! There's a lot that still needs to be done, but putting this out for other people to play with will help me test, as I don't have a whole lot of time to invest in programming as well as testing the mod extensively.

License: https://github.com/EkkuZakku/Kerbal-Construction-Time/wiki/License

Changelog:

Alpha Version 3: Implemented VAB and SPH clock, to tell how long a ship will take to construct. I'm still pretty happy with the build time algorithm I implemented last version, so it will stay for a while. Finalized the location of the show/hide GUI icon, let me know if it doesn't fit with another mod, or if it's in the way of something with your screen resolution! (I did research several other mods and where they had their icons, I think mine won't clash lol).

Alpha Version 2: Plenty of bug fixes to make the mod a lot more useful, timewarp can be stopped more easily (and by KAC, if it's being used), and put down some of the foundation for having a construction list.

Alpha Version 2: Improved GUI; can now minimize main window, and added a pop-up when time warp is stopped due to an SOI change.

Alpha Version 1: Initial release, basic functionality

Edited May 9, 2014 by Ekku Zakku

[nhnifong]

Interesting concept. This seems like it would balance the game in such a way that trying to max the tech tree in the least game time would pose the most interesting challenge. You'd have to plan to have technologies unlocked and rockets ready to launch when launch windows open up.

[rosenkranz]

looking forward to testing this

[Cooly568]

Okay now that is a very interesting and game changing idea.

I think this will add a whole layer of depth to the "realistic" players.

[Ekku Zakku]

Nathan and Cooly both leaving a post on my mod thread, you two are awesome XD

I'm not sure yet what I'm going to work on next, so anybody who tries it, let me know what seems most needed and I'll focus on that first.

[The Destroyer]

Intersting. I wouldn't use it myself, but interseting idea.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Did you make this from Scott Manleys twitter? He asked for just this as well.

Edit: Download does not work

[Ekku Zakku]

Did you make this from Scott Manleys twitter? He asked for just this as well.

Edit: Download does not work

I did not, it all came about from the thread I listed in the opening post lol. And thanks for letting me know, I fixed it =3

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Make the Launch Simulation and timer in the VAB and SPH next. I find that that would be very useful. Also, I love this mod already.

[NathanKell]

This...this! Hurrah!

I've been meaning to try something like this for, oh, ~4 months at least. So glad you've done it!

You might want to base rocket time on the costing code I did for Mission Controller; it tries to approximate how advanced/valuable/etc a part is, and that should more or less correspond to how fiddly it is to make and install. You'll have to decrease the fuel cost, though, obviously.

[magico13]

Interesting idea. This would pair well with the other "realism" mods like remotetech, FAR, DR, etc. This makes reusable craft like SSTOs and mods like Kethane even more powerful. Any plans for reducing future build time of ships that are partially recovered, if possible? My thoughts are like the Shuttle program, where the ship is only partially recovered (the launcher isn't reusable, well at least not all of it) but as a result the time between launches is still reduced. I'm gonna have to give this a try tomorrow.

As for the launch simulations, would those let you launch the craft as the game is now, but not let you save? So it's like when you quickload when something goes wrong and call it a "simulation"? Would there be restrictions on the amount of time a simulation could last, or it lasts as long as you like but without having any real effect?

I can imagine that the clock in the VAB would be handy to have as a next feature. What about the (config) option of disabling time requirements in sandbox mode and only keeping it in career mode, if not already done like that. Then sandbox mode could be a test bed for rockets, at least until the simulation feature is implemented.

[GrimJim]

Definitely like the idea of this... would be good for those "Space Races against Friends" games...

Will hopefully be trying it out tomorrow.

[Ekku Zakku]

Interesting idea. This would pair well with the other "realism" mods like remotetech, FAR, DR, etc. This makes reusable craft like SSTOs and mods like Kethane even more powerful. Any plans for reducing future build time of ships that are partially recovered, if possible? My thoughts are like the Shuttle program, where the ship is only partially recovered (the launcher isn't reusable, well at least not all of it) but as a result the time between launches is still reduced. I'm gonna have to give this a try tomorrow.

As for the launch simulations, would those let you launch the craft as the game is now, but not let you save? So it's like when you quickload when something goes wrong and call it a "simulation"? Would there be restrictions on the amount of time a simulation could last, or it lasts as long as you like but without having any real effect?

I can imagine that the clock in the VAB would be handy to have as a next feature. What about the (config) option of disabling time requirements in sandbox mode and only keeping it in career mode, if not already done like that. Then sandbox mode could be a test bed for rockets, at least until the simulation feature is implemented.

I'll work on the reusability aspect later, but I envision that having a recovered SSTO would go along the same route as a standardized rocket, the more you launch it, the less time it takes, and the first version of an SSTO isn't going to be refueled and launched again after its maiden flight; it'd make sense that it would be worked over to ensure reliability. Perhaps in the SPH I can shorten the build times in general, since planes are so often reused. I'll think about it more later XD

I was thinking about a time limit for the simulation, possibly just until orbit, but it'll have to be playtested I'm sure to figure it out. I know the launch is what goes wrong most with new craft, so just knowing it can make it into orbit would be enough for me.

I think the clock will be my next feature then, it would be pretty useful (thanks Nathan, I'll be sure to check your mod out for that!). When I get further along I'll certainly think about having it only in career mode, but since it's just 1 small .dll, and it's simply for testing currently, I won't get to that right away. Keeping it in sandbox right now is actually a pretty good thing for testing =3

[OrtwinS]

...

I was thinking about a time limit for the simulation, possibly just until orbit, but it'll have to be playtested I'm sure to figure it out. I know the launch is what goes wrong most with new craft, so just knowing it can make it into orbit would be enough for me.

...

Not just to orbit please.

Make it a ~20 minute real-time timer. That way one can test stuff like deploying parts, and action groups in orbit.

[Ekku Zakku]

Not just to orbit please.

Make it a ~20 minute real-time timer. That way one can test stuff like deploying parts, and action groups in orbit.

Yeah, that's more what I mean, I didn't want to imply "Pe over 70 km, simulation over!", because that would be stupid XD I just don't think that simulating an entire mission would be that great for the mod, since dV readouts from other mods and dV maps and those things should take care of that, if the player desires. Just knowing the rocket works is the main thing.

[John Nowak]

This sounds like an interesting mod and I'll be trying it out.

I have done something similar manually -- I start a stopwatch while I'm working on a spacecraft, and set the launch time to (12 h * build time +12h) if the rocket is unmanned, doubling that if it's manned. It's unrealistically fast, but better than zero. Also, that rule encourages me to modify existing saved designs instead of whipping something together from scratch.

A more realistic algorithm would give schedules in months or years, but that might not be fun at all.

[magico13]

I'm playing around with it right now just doing some testing with new mods and I've found that the RTG will actually start providing power and allow you to roll the vessel. Rovers can just immediately start driving. The same is true with the little solar panel instead of the RTG.

It would be nice to have a count down for the clock that appears after launch, instead of just the current time and the finish time. Having the display disappear after the vessel has finished building, or some way of minimizing the gui to a small button would be nice. The current time and finish time have a very large amount of decimals visible. It would be nice if they were truncated to integers, as anything past the first decimal is more precision than is usable. I know the gui is more of a placeholder than anything else, so I'm just throwing out my thoughts.

If you need my mod list for whatever reason, just ask and I will gladly provide it. The only one that I'm using that would override any control aspects (that I know of) would be remotetech.

[Ekku Zakku]

I'm playing around with it right now just doing some testing with new mods and I've found that the RTG will actually start providing power and allow you to roll the vessel. Rovers can just immediately start driving. The same is true with the little solar panel instead of the RTG.

It would be nice to have a count down for the clock that appears after launch, instead of just the current time and the finish time. Having the display disappear after the vessel has finished building, or some way of minimizing the gui to a small button would be nice. The current time and finish time have a very large amount of decimals visible. It would be nice if they were truncated to integers, as anything past the first decimal is more precision than is usable. I know the gui is more of a placeholder than anything else, so I'm just throwing out my thoughts.

If you need my mod list for whatever reason, just ask and I will gladly provide it. The only one that I'm using that would override any control aspects (that I know of) would be remotetech.

This is why I want to remove the vessel from the world entirely, since I know just having the fuel and electricity removed isn't going to work in every instance (like for those who use the launch clamps as fuel pumps). Same thing with the GUI, it needs lots of work and I hate making GUIs without a GUI maker =P I'll go ahead and change things/add a countdown until the build is ready, it does make more sense to have that lol. Thanks for your input! Exactly the kinds of things I need to hear =3

Also, how exactly will RemoteTech interfere with this mod?

[diomedea]

Really interesting concept, a mod that I will certainly use.

Understand that it will be possible to have a queue of rockets/planes under construction at the same time. Will it be possible to store the finished ones for when a launch opportunity arises (launch window...)?

Would really like if it was possible to provide build times for other mods to show. Having them displayed with Kerbal Alarm Clock (just to name one) would certainly help.

[magico13]

Also, how exactly will RemoteTech interfere with this mod?

I just brought up RemoteTech in case you had tried to lock control until launch and RT was overriding that. It appears as if that's not the case though, so it doesn't interfere at all.

I agree that it would be nice to not even load them into the world. If there was some sort of queue where you could have ships building and can swap them around in the queue and cancel them then that would be nice. Then when one finishes you get a popup saying it's finished with the options of launching or storing it. My thoughts are that there'd be an extra button in the VAB/SPH for adding the current craft to the build list (with the time required to build), and the launch button would go into "simulation" mode (since you probably can't easily override the fact that the launch button puts it on the pad). You also would only be able to store a small amount, like 1 or 2, but can "scrap" them at any time.

Also, any way of breaking the build time left into days:hours:minutes:seconds without requiring a lot of effort?

BTW, I don't expect you to actually do anything I suggest, so don't feel pressured to do any of them

[DiEvAl]

Sounds interesting. I'll try it.

BTW, thank you for showing me a flaw in my mod manager: I haven't expected that a mod can be a single .dll, and not an archive;-)

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Is this still alive?

[Ekku Zakku]

Yup, I'm just a busy guy XD I work in retail, and the last week was obviously quite crazy. I'm gonna put some more work in tomorrow, it'll maybe be a week before I get the next version out though. Don't worry, after Scott Manley vaguely mentioned my mod in episode 11 of his Interstellar Quest series, I'm quite dedicated to this mod now!

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ekku Zakku

[Andon]

So... I just had a thought about construction times. Instead of an artificially imposed time limit - perhaps put some form of time acceleration on the game while you're in the VAB or SPH?

So, perhaps you'd have a 4000-5000x acceleration while in the SPH (Giving about 14-18 days of game time for a 5-minute construction), and maybe around 10000-20000x in the VAB (Giving about 34-42 days of game time for a 5-minute construction). A "Minimum time" could be imposed, so just loading up and launching a rocket would still take time. But it would "Naturally" do a few things without extra coding needed:

1 - Modifying a design would take time but not as much time as re-building the rocket

2 - Loading a design that's been used before takes a lot less time

3 - Ship isn't loaded into the world while being "built" so you don't have those shenanigans.

Just a thought. Exact times are of course, just rough numbers that sounded nice. I know it's quite a bit different than what you've been doing, but hey... The only issue I see is ships that are currently in-flight. But that can be solved by auto-saving the ship and pulling up the auto-save next time they go to the VAB.

[Ekku Zakku]

So... I just had a thought about construction times. Instead of an artificially imposed time limit - perhaps put some form of time acceleration on the game while you're in the VAB or SPH?

So, perhaps you'd have a 4000-5000x acceleration while in the SPH (Giving about 14-18 days of game time for a 5-minute construction), and maybe around 10000-20000x in the VAB (Giving about 34-42 days of game time for a 5-minute construction). A "Minimum time" could be imposed, so just loading up and launching a rocket would still take time. But it would "Naturally" do a few things without extra coding needed:

1 - Modifying a design would take time but not as much time as re-building the rocket

2 - Loading a design that's been used before takes a lot less time

3 - Ship isn't loaded into the world while being "built" so you don't have those shenanigans.

Just a thought. Exact times are of course, just rough numbers that sounded nice. I know it's quite a bit different than what you've been doing, but hey... The only issue I see is ships that are currently in-flight. But that can be solved by auto-saving the ship and pulling up the auto-save next time they go to the VAB.

We discussed time passing in the VAB on the "Do you think rocket construction will ever "take time"?" thread, and concluded it was a bad idea. The devs also don't like it XD it just interferes with current flights a lot more than would be pleasant.