How do I fix my rocket

[LadyAthena]

Sorry for the title, I really don't know what I can call this question.

I'm having a dilemma with my ships. I'm still pretty new to ksp. I have no problem making ships that can reach the 2 moons around Kerbin, I can make rockets that can reach just about any planet as well. But this was mostly off of figuring out what worked and what didn't. If you were to ask me alot about any of the stats or meanings in ksp I'd be pretty lost.

But I think its time to at least somewhat learn, as like I said, I've been having a dilemma with my rockets.

The problem is, I have a ship that can reach and orbit other planets. When try to make it slightly bigger by adding new stuff onto it that I've unlocked science wise (Using the Interplanetary mod trying to get the science lab to the Mun). It's grossly over weight now. Which is understandable.

But since my rocket as a whole was more than enough before, I try double it. Or rather, making 2 of my ships into 1.. Figure, twice the size, twice the lifting power... But no.. It's barely able to get into Orbit around Kerbin.

So here I sit, everytime I try to upgrade my ships, I can't, as they start to suddenly get overweight. When I try to add more rockets, it seems like the rockets I built, and engines I put on have only enough power to get it to the same point in space..

Example: I build a ship with 6 engines and it can get me only to 350km orbit over Kerbin. I then take that same ship, add 6 more engines, but that also can only get to 350km despite the engines being exactly the same, with the same amount of fuel for each, etc.

It's frustrating to say the least. More engines = more power = farther distance you'd think.. but that's not how it is working for sure...

I don't want a cheat sheet, or people to look at my ship and say ahhh do this and put that there, and wala you can go anywhere.. I'd like to be able to figure this out myself but.. What do I look at? How can I be sure I am getting ample lift, and minimizing the weight, while still having enough fuel to actually get to my destination?

Is there a trick to the engine types? (I've just been using the 30 since they are the strongest). There must be something I'm over looking.

Edited December 8, 2013 by LadyAthena

[Skorpychan]

Weight is the issue. You're adding more weight to lift more weight, and you've reached the point of diminishing returns.

You should try on-orbit construction; docking ships in orbit, so you can launch them in smaller pieces.

[UnthinkableThinker]

You should try on-orbit construction; docking ships in orbit, so you can launch them in smaller pieces.

Got the words off my mou... err... keyboard.

[LadyAthena]

Weight is the issue. You're adding more weight to lift more weight, and you've reached the point of diminishing returns.

You should try on-orbit construction; docking ships in orbit, so you can launch them in smaller pieces.

I've considered doing this many times already, but that then brings me to yet another problem I have, which is what this problem is a main stem from.... I can't seem to #1 get a ship capable of refueling a station into orbit for this very same reason, and #2 I can't dock to save my life.

Edit: I already know its a weight to thrust ratio problem, but it seems like no matter what I do, how little fuel I put on, or whatever the case may be, I still cannot seem to get it past a certain point when I add anything to it. There has to be something I'm over looking.

[Black_Tomcat]

If you aren't decoupling the engines it makes sense that they won't get you further

[matt_cain]

On orbit construction is useful, but you can still launch large payloads into orbit with KSP. One way to do this is asparagus staging see (http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Asparagus_staging) for specific details. In short, you build other rockets parallel to your main rocket and transfer fuel from the outside rockets towards the core all the while burning with all your first stage engines. When the outside stages are empty, you dump them. It is like using boosters to start your main rocket at a higher altitude, but while using all your engines so your thrust is still high. Hope that helps and good luck.

--edit: Pretty much its what Black_Tomcat is referring to.

[Dogface]

Q: How much does one of your payloads weigh?

I've considered doing this many times already, but that then brings me to yet another problem I have, which is what this problem is a main stem from.... I can't seem to #1 get a ship capable of refueling a station into orbit for this very same reason, and #2 I can't dock to save my life.

Rendezvous and docking are probably the most challenging things in the game. But it is so rewarding when you finally figure it out. Keep trying. There are a number of good tutorials on the topic, find the one that makes sense to you. Here are some good tutorials:

Absolute Beginner's Guide to Kerbal Space Program - Part 7 - How to Rendezvous and Dock

Orbital Rendezvous And Docking Tutorial For Kerbal Space Program 0.18

Scott Manley

Kerbal Space Program : Docking Tutorial Part 1 Beginners

AddMeGamers

Edited December 8, 2013 by Dogface

[lajoswinkler]

It seems to me you're not using staging. When a tank with an engine is spent, you throw it away. That reduces the mass and you can carry on.

Single stage rockets are for suborbital flights and taking readings. If you want to go to orbit and further, you need staging.

[Monkeh]

I'd highly recommend the Engineer redux. That will give you stage by stage readings of your thrust to weight and delta v. You can then add fuel and engines and see instantly how much further, or not, you'll go.

Then you can build more exact stages. Lifter can have exactly 4,500 m/s to get to orbit, going to Jool? Pack another 2,500 or so on the next stage etc.

[Smidge204]

You can do some amazing things with staging and fuel lines. This beast will put ~170 tons into a high orbit around Mun;

Here's a layout of the tanks with staging notes:

It's a slight variant on "Asparagus" staging. Normally all fuel would drain into the central column, but that would leave me with only one functioning engine and that's not enough TWR to keep things going in the right direction... so I forsake one engine and direct the fuel outwards instead.

Making that diagram I thought maybe modifying the flow to feed through the central tank before going to the core engines (purple line) might be a little more efficient, in that when the last layer of the spiral drops way the central tank will be full instead of empty. Haven't tried it and I've honestly no plans to.

And with this kind of staging you actually want to concentrate most of the fuel on the outer stages, since all the engines will burn it and it'll go away very quickly - the first stage hold 480 tons of fuel and is empty at only ~1600 meters!

=Smidge=

[Taki117]

So, as others have said,

will certainly help (As will staging in general, sounds like you are the king of SSTO's)

Tsiolkovsky is not your enemy!

Also, Payload Fraction is a good thing to know for your rockets.

If you are not adverse to using mods KER (You might also want KER for Pods) will give you the TWR (Thrust/Weight ratio) the dV (Delta-V, or how much your ship can change it's velocity) and other useful things. (MechJeb is another useful one) Also, if you want to post a picture (And/or craft file) of your rocket I'm sure anyone here would be able to get it flying.

[superm18]

less is more

[koshelenkovv]

You can do some amazing things with staging and fuel lines. This beast will put ~170 tons into a high orbit around Mun;

I can't imagine a single use for so enormous behemoth rocket other than making huge explosions

[Taki117]

I can't imagine a single use for so enormous behemoth rocket other than making huge explosions

I have an 88t station that I had trouble getting into orbit, that set up would have been useful.

[Vanamonde]

A while back I started a discussion thread for interplanetary ship building. You might find some designs of interest to you there. My own project to come up with tractor-style ships which can haul interplanetary payloads culminated in these two designs. Notice how they're almost entirely fuel and engines? It's inevitable that the machinery to get the payload to the destination has to be several times the size of the payload.

[Sirine]

A while back I started a discussion thread for interplanetary ship building. You might find some designs of interest to you there. My own project to come up with tractor-style ships which can haul interplanetary payloads culminated in these two designs. Notice how they're almost entirely fuel and engines? It's inevitable that the machinery to get the payload to the destination has to be several times the size of the payload.

Impressive design... I go try out the design now...need a ship to Moho.. and it took about 5 orange tank...thats perfect.