[1.0] XT Landertron - Smart Retrorockets for Landers and Spaceplanes v0.08 Oct 10

[Galane]

Looks like these may help a lot with MechJeb landings on Eve.

[aquilux]

I am looking for more modes to add. I started playing around with a launch escape mode that fires automatically when it detects a part of the ship breaking/exploding. However so far, I think it might be a bit too hard to accurately determine which circumstances actually warrant an abort. Many minor mishaps can be recovered from. Without this automated functionality, the Landertrons would just be firing on command which is no different than sepratrons.

Speaking of input, I just had an idea that may help here. I've seen many people complicate their mods by trying to add mod specific GUIs that you then have to navigate. I suggest using Module manager to add a custom module to all parts (or certain sets of parts is desired). Each part with the module would get an additional button in its context menu that when toggled on, would make the part flag itself to the plugin as a part to watch. In case of destruction or detachment of any part along the branch to that part, the plugin would trigger the abort action group, though I'm not sure how to make it aware of the difference between spontaneous disassembly and decoupling events. Do parts, or could a part, equipped with a decoupler module, report the decouple command? That way, anything further along the branch could be unflagged before the abort is triggered.

Hmmm. Looking at it now, It'd probably do well as its own plugin based mod. If you decide to make it, I request tweakables compatibility, and the ability to apply the flag to all parts in the same symmetry group if I choose.

[XanderTek]

Speaking of input, I just had an idea that may help here. I've seen many people complicate their mods by trying to add mod specific GUIs that you then have to navigate. I suggest using Module manager to add a custom module to all parts (or certain sets of parts is desired). Each part with the module would get an additional button in its context menu that when toggled on, would make the part flag itself to the plugin as a part to watch. In case of destruction or detachment of any part along the branch to that part, the plugin would trigger the abort action group, though I'm not sure how to make it aware of the difference between spontaneous disassembly and decoupling events. Do parts, or could a part, equipped with a decoupler module, report the decouple command? That way, anything further along the branch could be unflagged before the abort is triggered.

Hmmm. Looking at it now, It'd probably do well as its own plugin based mod. If you decide to make it, I request tweakables compatibility, and the ability to apply the flag to all parts in the same symmetry group if I choose.

A part exploding or a "joint" breaking are considered different than a decoupling event. There might be some exceptions, but from my limited testing the events seemed distinct. I suppose I could allow the user to pick out which parts are important and which aren't, but it seems like a pain to go through your ship and flag half the parts, even with symmetry. Personally, I barely ever use LES systems (though I do find them cool), so if it required much work to set one up I probably wouldn't bother with it.

You make a good point about this perhaps being outside the scope of this mod. I was just trying to come up with other situations that could benefit from smart, powerful rockets that fire for less than a second.

On a different note, I think I found a cool real-world reference for how the Landertrons should look. This video shows a modified C-130 airplane with rockets for short takeoff and landing. The forward facing ones that pop out would be a good fit for what I'm doing here.

[Galane]

Operation "Credible Sport". The tests all went great, except the final one before mission launch. The crew lit the retro rockets before the landing ones, causing it to smack down hard. Broke off a wing and caught fire.

Scott Manley built a plane in an earlier version of KSP using solid rockets and sepratrons for super short takeoffs and landings. I'd like to see one done closer to the real plane, and capable of actually rescuing some Kerbal "hostages".

[Lucid Hills]

I can't seem to find the landatrons anywhere in game. The Hexcans are there but no landertrons.

I have downloaded 0.06a and copied the files in source and gamedata to those folders.

Ideas?

Edit: I opened up a sandbox game and found them so I just haven't unlocked them in my campaign yet. Where are they in the tech tree then?

Edited February 3, 2014 by Lucid Hills

[XanderTek]

They're unlocked when you research "Advanced Landing", which is a tier 6 tech. Now that I think about it, that might be a bit late in the game to unlock them...

[Lucid Hills]

Maybe put them in the survivability one?

[undercoveryankee]

I've been trying to build a probe that lands uncontrolled, then extends an antenna once it's on the ground to receive further commands. These will help a lot.

[Helix935]

is this abandoned?

[Xaelath]

is this abandoned?

Iunno. Looks good, so I'll try it out.

[XanderTek]

is this abandoned?

No, it's not abandoned. I achieved my initial goals, and haven't had the time to learn how to model my own parts. So... it's kinda on hold until I come up with something else cool to do with it. There shouldn't be any issues using the parts with the latest version of the game. If you do run into any issues, let me know and I'll try to put out a patch.

I'd be happy to hear from anyone who has suggestions for additional features. I have been considering a two-stage escape tower that fires the rockets once to escape, and then a second time to land, removing the need for parachutes. Maybe a claw with built in retrorockets for easy asteroid grabbing? I don't have a lot of free time this summer, but I would like to revisit the mod at some point.

[Orionkermin]

Glad to hear that you're still going to be supporting this. I'be been working on adding the landertron module to my soyuz style pod. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67164-HGR-R-D-Thread-Stock-like-Soyuz-Shenzhou-and-1-875m-parts-in-Development

Thanks for the great plug-in

[problemecium]

OMG I just discovered this mod and it's brilliant! I was just thinking I oughta try my hand at powered landings - if SpaceX can do it in Real Life, surely I can do it in KSP.

This will of course make it way easy xD

[XanderTek]

Glad to hear that you're still going to be supporting this. I'be been working on adding the landertron module to my soyuz style pod. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67164-HGR-R-D-Thread-Stock-like-Soyuz-Shenzhou-and-1-875m-parts-in-Development

Thanks for the great plug-in

Cool! The soyuz lander was my original inspiration. I'm glad to see this is getting some use. In theory it should be as simple as editing the cfg file for your pod. I tried to code the plug-in in such a way that it could be used by other parts without any changes to the dll, but I never tested the module on a part as complex as a command pod. Let me know if you need any help getting it working. Also, we can talk if you're looking for some additional functionality.

You are of course free to include my dll with your download.

[XanderTek]

I've started work on a new version. Some of the changes I have planned:

• Replace the stock models with Bahamuto's very pretty retractable engines. 2 radial styles, 1 bottom mounted. Engines will pop out when armed, and retract when refueled. Not sure yet if I'll bundle his models, or make his mod a requirement.
  
• Give the Landertrons some limited ability to adjust throttle. This is kinda cheating, but allows for much more reliable landings. It's really not noticeable to the user, I'm talking about fractions of a second difference in burn time, but it makes a difference! Hopefully I can get it to a point where there will no longer be a need to tweak activation height settings to get it working just right on different landers.
  
• Have a cfg option that hides the right-click settings, so that other devs can use can use the plugin without displaying confusing options that may not be relevant
  
• Better handling of the situation where the Landertrons lack the delta-v to bring the vehicle to a full stop. (No more early activation)
  
• Improved refueling process
  

Edited June 20, 2014 by XanderTek

[Tidus Klein]

Sweet cant wait for the new models! Ill be downloading this ASAP after the models come out:)

[Orionkermin]

Have a cfg option that hides the right-click settings, so that other devs can use can use the plugin without displaying confusing options that may not be relevant

This would be great! Looking forward to it.

[Fraz86]

Do Landertrons work with RemoteTech2 in situations with signal delay?

[XanderTek]

Do Landertrons work with RemoteTech2 in situations with signal delay?

Hmm, good question. I don't play with RemoteTech, so I've never tried it. Once armed, everything is being calculated onboard so signal delay shouldn't have an impact... at least in theory. A few things to keep in mind though:

• The Landertrons have limited delta-V. If you're landing on a body without atmosphere, you'll probably need something else to partially slow you down as you descend.
  
• The Landertrons won't control the orientation of your ship. If you still have horizontal velocity as you approach the ground, you'll need some means to keep your ship angled correctly so that the thrust kills both your horizontal and vertical velocity.
  

Let me know how it works out. If I get a chance maybe I'll try fooling around with RemoteTech after I get the new version out.

Edited June 22, 2014 by XanderTek

[XanderTek]

New version is up! Details are in the first post. Please give it a try.

If there are no major issues I may move this project over to the Releases subforum.

[Fraz86]

The update looks great! Any chance you could include a config option for non-KAS refueling? Similar to how refueling worked before the update (i.e., requiring EVA, but not actually moving any parts), for those of us who don't use KAS?

[problemecium]

Just to check - I don't know if this is a bug or an intentional feature - after I touch down I find that no matter how little of the landertrons' fuel was used to brake, they suddenly become completely empty. Is that supposed to happen? Are landertrons not meant to be reusable?

[Fraz86]

For whatever reason, the landertron's animations don't seem to be working correctly for me. The larger radial engine starts deployed and remains deployed, while the other two start retracted and remain retracted. They all seem to function as intended (the retracted landertrons will actually fire despite appearing to be closed); it's solely an animation problem. Also, BahaD's standard (non-landertron) engines animate just fine, so it seems to be a problem specifically with the landertrons.

[XanderTek]

The update looks great! Any chance you could include a config option for non-KAS refueling? Similar to how refueling worked before the update (i.e., requiring EVA, but not actually moving any parts), for those of us who don't use KAS?

I'll consider it. I'd rather not have to support two completely different refueling methods, but I'll see if I can come up with some simple alternative to KAS. Just a thought: I could turn SolidFuel into a pumpable resource, so that you can transfer it between parts the same as liquid fuel.

Just to check - I don't know if this is a bug or an intentional feature - after I touch down I find that no matter how little of the landertrons' fuel was used to brake, they suddenly become completely empty. Is that supposed to happen? Are landertrons not meant to be reusable?

That's working as intended. It started as a vague attempt at realism. Solid fuel rockets can't easily be turned off half way through, so in this case I pretend that at the end of the burn I eject/vent the remaining fuel. I think it also works as a decent balancing mechanism. They are reusable though, you just need to add a new fuel cartridge. Just EVA, and use KAS to attach a hex can to the Landertron (as shown in the video on the first page).

For whatever reason, the landertron's animations don't seem to be working correctly for me. The larger radial engine starts deployed and remains deployed, while the other two start retracted and remain retracted. They all seem to function as intended (the retracted landertrons will actually fire despite appearing to be closed); it's solely an animation problem. Also, BahaD's standard (non-landertron) engines animate just fine, so it seems to be a problem specifically with the landertrons.

Ak... that doesn't sound good. Might be a conflict with another mod. Can you upload your output_log.txt? It's found in the "KSP_Data" folder within the main KSP directory. Does the large radial appear deployed even when you're in the VAB?

Edit: Oh, I think I might know what the problem is... If you're using the HGR mod, make sure you don't have a duplicate Landertron.dll in that folder. I was able to reproduce your bug when a duplicate dll was present.

Edited June 23, 2014 by XanderTek

[Fraz86]

I'll consider it. I'd rather not have to support two completely different refueling methods, but I'll see if I can come up with some simple alternative to KAS. Just a thought: I could turn SolidFuel into a pumpable resource, so that you can transfer it between parts the same as liquid fuel.

I'd rather not make SolidFuel a pumpable resource; that would definitely feel like cheating to me. I like the requirement for an EVA Kerbal to manually refuel the landertrons, I just don't like dependencies on other plugins unless completely necessary.

Ak... that doesn't sound good. Might be a conflict with another mod. Can you upload your output_log.txt? It's found in the "KSP_Data" folder within the main KSP directory. Does the large radial appear deployed even when you're in the VAB? Oh, if you're using the HGR mod, make sure you don't have a duplicate Landertron.dll in that folder.

Ah, thank you! The duplicate Landertron.dll from HGR was the culprit.