The Afronauts

[AcidSludge]

I recently learned about the Zambia Space Program, aaaand I just wanted to share, just in case you didn't know about this.

In case you know more (websites dedicated to that, book suggestions et cetera), please share

http://youtu.be/3uzSSe8RP58 (Faces Of Africa - Makuka Nkoloso: The Afronaut)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Makuka_Nkoloso (The Wiki-Entry about Nkoloso, obviously)

[ZedNova]

Zambia? Okay then...

[lajoswinkler]

I think "afronauts" is derogatory. If locality was of any value (astronauts, cosmonauts, taikonauts, all that has something to do with space), it would be zambianauts, but it isn't. "Afronauts" looks like lumping everything into "those black people living in huts".

Africa is a huge continent with many countries which have totally different cultures. Contrary to the popular opinion, native people living there have a great diversity in appearance, too.

I think Nkoloso was too naive if he honestly though he's going to receive any funding from anyone, but I respect his effort. Most of people around him were uneducated, primitive and dumb, so he wanted to make a change, a dent in the monotony of everyday life.

[astropapi1]

Well, at least he had the mindset.

Edited December 25, 2013 by astropapi1

[Camacha]

I think "afronauts" is derogatory.

I think that depends on your perspective. I view it as a loving nickname. Not everything is derogaroty or discriminatory and let's not forget - it has a ring.

[lajoswinkler]

I think that depends on your perspective. I view it as a loving nickname. Not everything is derogaroty or discriminatory and let's not forget - it has a ring.

Everything in that category depends on perspective. It's because such things aren't the laws of physics or mathematical axioms, but made up by people.

You can bet that if some Egyptian did this, it wouldn't be "afronauts", despite the fact Egypt is in Africa. But most people are thinking like "France, USA, China, Hungary, Norway, Mexico, Africa". "It's that land where the poor, hungry black savages are".

[ZedNova]

Everything in that category depends on perspective. It's because such things aren't the laws of physics or mathematical axioms, but made up by people.

You can bet that if some Egyptian did this, it wouldn't be "afronauts", despite the fact Egypt is in Africa. But most people are thinking like "France, USA, China, Hungary, Norway, Mexico, Africa". "It's that land where the poor, hungry black savages are".

Egyptian astronauts would be called Pharonauts and they would have helmets that resemble Ancients Egyptian headdresses.

Edited December 25, 2013 by ZedNova

[Camacha]

Everything in that category depends on perspective. It's because such things aren't the laws of physics or mathematical axioms, but made up by people.

You can bet that if some Egyptian did this, it wouldn't be "afronauts", despite the fact Egypt is in Africa. But most people are thinking like "France, USA, China, Hungary, Norway, Mexico, Africa". "It's that land where the poor, hungry black savages are".

I think it is dangerous to make these assertions for others, as the people who it concerns may well think about the matter very differently. I have too often see people defend other groups, while those groups themselves had completely different ideas on the matter.

Also, be aware that by saying this, you are making that judgement and a distinction, even if you are disapproving. Other people might not see any harm in the name because they never meant it harmful (not even in an oblivious way) and are not making a distinction. They simply see a charming nickname. By disapproving you indicate having made a distinction on race/country/continent, while seeing it as a cheerful name is not. I think I know what the bigger problem is.

And yes, it is only logical that other parts of the world are devided in much larger areas than your local (cultural) area is devided into, generalizing more. On the moon, a crater often is a big thing, but from the earth we generalize them into larger parts like plains, seas and areas The same goes for countries and areas on earth that are far away to our human perception. We do not talk about vilage news in Kawambwa in detail, we talk about something that happened in Zambia, or even Africa.

[lajoswinkler]

It's not dangerous. It's the truth. You're giving average people too much credit. Most of them are either consciously racist or simply oblivious in their stereotyping. Both things are bad.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone living in Kenya. "Oh, those afronauts" - because the most important thing to consider is that it's that backwards continents filled with "black clones". How would that lumping feel to you? I bet it would not be cool and innocent, because it reduces you to a banality.

I swear to you, that's how the majority thinks. They don't see it as a continent with very different countries, cultures, appearances, history. It's the "land where black people live".

I'm far, far from a PC asshole and I cringe when I see some PC stuff that appears in US media because it's so stupid and does more harm than it solves problems, but this is a fact.

(I totally dig the pharaon helmets.)

[zxczxczbfg]

I think this discussion was not the intention of the OP. I think discussion of the possibility of a Zambian space program is what the OP intended. (Also, after actually reading the article, I think that, at least at the time, Mr. Nkoloso was being too ambitious, but given that India, a nation not really known for its spacecraft, has recently launched a mission to Mars, the economic practicality of it may be better than we think.)

Edited December 25, 2013 by zxczxczbfg

[Camacha]

It's not dangerous. It's the truth. You're giving average people too much credit. Most of them are either consciously racist or simply oblivious in their stereotyping. Both things are bad.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone living in Kenya. "Oh, those afronauts" - because the most important thing to consider is that it's that backwards continents filled with "black clones". How would that lumping feel to you? I bet it would not be cool and innocent, because it reduces you to a banality.

I swear to you, that's how the majority thinks. They don't see it as a continent with very different countries, cultures, appearances, history. It's the "land where black people live".

Not to be rude, but you are the only one here that has labeled Africa as a place where ignorant black people live a couple of times now, and white people as dumb and ignorant. You are the one who is somehow extracting all that from the term afronauts and that says more about you than the term itself. Would I feel offended when Zambian people use a term like euronauts for ESA astronauts? Of course not.

It is too easy to label people not sharing your opinions as either oblivious or racist, because that would leave no room for stuff that simply is not. Sometimes stuff is just as innocent as it looks to be, without any additional intentions or motives.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Camacha

[lajoswinkler]

No, I have not said that. I've said that most people think like that. There's a huge difference.

Most KSP forum users are better persons than average people. Average Joe doesn't like playing with such games, is not concerned with science, space, advancement of human kind. He wants to eat, drink, fu*k, sleep.

I've just stated the obvious and that was not the only thing I said in my first post.

[Camacha]

No, I have not said that. I've said that most people think like that. There's a huge difference.

No, it is what you assume other people think. There is a major and profound difference there, as you are the one making generalizations and assumptions there. You did it the other way around too, by assuming Africans (of whatever part) would be offended by that.

I've just stated the obvious and that was not the only thing I said in my first post.

The fact that you consider that to be obvious is the key.

[astropapi1]

Please don't turn this into a discussion about racism.

[Vanamonde]

People of good will can disagree about what does and what does not constitute racism, but I don't believe anyone here meant offense. Nevertheless, the discussion is not heading in a good direction, so let's turn our attention to more cheerful subjects on Christmas, okay? Closing thread.