Future of Aerodynamic parts

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Hi, as a lot of us are aware there are multiple addons which add more parts with different aerodynamic properties, such as larger wings and different control surfaces. I am just wondering who here thinks it would be awesome if in future updates more wings were added (say, larger ones for MOAR LIFT! ) as well as different control surfaces.

[vexx32]

Moved to Development Discussion. Please take care in future where you post new threads.

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Alright, thanks!

[Nuke]

can we also mirror wing parts instead of rotating 180 degrees. i was trying to mod some cambered wings with flaps and control surfaces built in, but it didnt look right on one side. id love if this was fixed too.

[Skyrunner27]

can we also mirror wing parts instead of rotating 180 degrees. i was trying to mod some cambered wings with flaps and control surfaces built in, but it didnt look right on one side. id love if this was fixed too.

Plane parts already mirror.

[Themohawkninja]

I'd just like to see some variable geometry wings... and a SCRAMjet would be cool too.

[vexx32]

Is that not the entire purpose of the mirror symmetry, or has it been mis-implemented? Naturally that kind of thing is hard to notice with the stock parts :/

[Hashbrown66]

I heard that all the aerodynamic parts are going to get a make-over when the better flight model gets implemented. Let's hope we get artyom to help with the art when it comes around.

[AngelLestat]

Until SQUAD do not implement a new aerodynamics model.. I dont see the point to this.

[Nuke]

Is that not the entire purpose of the mirror symmetry, or has it been mis-implemented? Naturally that kind of thing is hard to notice with the stock parts :/

seems that way, i did a test wing stuck it on the side of the plane with mirror symmetry, and one wing is upside down. thats not a mirror thats a rotation, unless im not doing something right. let me get a screeny.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Nuke

[Trux]

seems that way, i did a test wing stuck it on the side of the plane with mirror symmetry, and one wing is upside down. thats not a mirror thats a rotation, unless im not doing something right. let me get a screeny.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/Emperor_of_Nihil/fixme_zps5d13bc74.jpg

That isn't mirror symmetry, look at the icon in the bottom left corner.

[Nuke]

then this begs the question, wtf happened to mirror symmetry? it used to be the default, and there is no control to toggle it.

[ferram4]

Mirror symmetry has never worked the way you seem to think it did. It never mirrored the parts themselves, only their placements.

[DevL]

then this begs the question, wtf happened to mirror symmetry? it used to be the default, and there is no control to toggle it.

The Editor Extensions mod solves this.

[Nuke]

it solves it, but because im trying to reduce dependencies on other mods i will probibly just exclude the wing from the next version of my parts pack until something better comes along. nothing against using mods where required, but this is kind of a fringe case. and its probibly easier for me to do a zero camber version than to work around. if i did use a mod id probibly look at firespitter, which im 93% sure handles this, and which i might end up needing anyway to make my turbines spin.

one thing though, it seems to me there used to be a different icon in the symmetry button in the sph. this is the 2x radial symmetry icon from the vab which i dont ever remember seeing in the sph. curious.

still, wing symmetry needs to be handled somehow to expand the aerodynamic capabilities. wings seem to still be handled in a legacy way, so its probibly already slated for an upgrade. the game needs to handle this if squad ever wants to have cambered wings, or flaps, or more complex aerodynamic properties. i still think my suggestion would be valid. mirroring is a fairly simple transform. mirroring the origin and rotating pi radians on the z seems like a hack to me.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Nuke

[John FX]

Interestingly ladders for example do mirror (rotate?) correctly. The `down` side remains `down`but they have a different axis of symmetry.

If we regard the parts as real world items then, as there are no left and right versions of parts, this is the way you would have to fit a part like a wing onto the opposite side. Stock parts present no issues as they are symmetrical but objects with differences between the top and bottom will show that there are not two models but the same model rotated.

The solutions are either transform the object on the fly to be a proper mirror (code rewrite and cpu intensive?) or make the object symmetrical so it makes no difference (not best solution for futureproofing) or make two models, one for left and one for right (would require code rewrite and increase memory usage?).

It seems the physics are not affected by this, just the aesthetics. Myself I didn`t notice this behaviour or the different icon until it was pointed out (don`t use the SPH much)

Not sure as to the best solution but when this level of things (minor) are sorted out it would be nice to have it addressed.

[Nuke]

its not really any more cpu intensive (i think model xforms are handled on the video hardware) to mirror than it is to rotate. there are some things to compensate for, mirroring on any one axis reverses the vertex order (if you are providing normals i dont think this affects anything though). you might also get some flipping of anything in the texture, like text would be backwards in the flipped wing. this could be handled with non-flipping surface decals which are excluded from inversion. its a rendering issue and the video card is underutilized as it is, i dont think it will slow anything down.

would be nice if physics would handle wing camber. everything right now is treated like a neutral airfoil, which is not the way you usually design wings. a cambered wing will produce more lift at 0 aoa than a neutral wing. but this doesnt even need to touch the model data, except for xform.