[1.8+] Real Fuels

[blowfish]

RealFuels v12.3.1 for KSP 1.3

• Actually fix the bug with tanks not getting their contents correctly (not fixed in v12.3.0)

DO NOT INSTALL THIS VERSION IF YOU ARE RUNNING KSP 1.2.2.  IT WILL NOT WORK

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

6 hours ago, blowfish said:

As for the issue with command pods not being able to accept RCS fuel, I think that TAC and RF Stockalike aren't cooperating - they are getting the LifeSupportAll tank type but should be getting ServiceModule.  Not sure which side the fix needs to go on but it isn't a pure RF issue per se.

I make some launches with older versions of RF for KSP 1.2.2. Results:

RF v1.2.1 - all works with or without TAC LS.

RF v1.2.2 - empty pod tanks, but at least RFStockalike creates them.

RF v1.2.4 - something broke. Code for TAC tank conversion in RFStockalike just not work.

[blowfish]

2 hours ago, Canis Dirus Leidy said:

I make some launches with older versions of RF for KSP 1.2.2. Results:

RF v1.2.1 - all works with or without TAC LS.

RF v1.2.2 - empty pod tanks, but at least RFStockalike creates them.

RF v1.2.4 - something broke. Code for TAC tank conversion in RFStockalike just not work.

Wait, but in your previous post you said that RF v12.2.4 worked correctly

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

26 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Wait, but in your previous post you said that RF v12.2.4 worked correctly

It was about clean KSP install (RealFuels, Module Manager, engine configs and nothing more). About adding TAC LS to this was in post-post-scriptum ("TAC LS (v0.13.0)/RealFuels/RFStockalike combo in KSP 1.2.2 don't work either").

[blowfish]

1 hour ago, Canis Dirus Leidy said:

It was about clean KSP install (RealFuels, Module Manager, engine configs and nothing more). About adding TAC LS to this was in post-post-scriptum ("TAC LS (v0.13.0)/RealFuels/RFStockalike combo in KSP 1.2.2 don't work either").

Well I can try to investigate, but I'm seeing a lot of incomplete and/or conflicting information here.  If you could post the log, ModuleManager.ConfigCache, and exact versions of KSP, RF, and TAC in each case, and reiterate exactly what you expected the behavior to be and what it actually was, that would be helpful.

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

On 17.08.2017 at 11:03 PM, blowfish said:

Well I can try to investigate, but I'm seeing a lot of incomplete and/or conflicting information here.  If you could post the log, ModuleManager.ConfigCache, and exact versions of KSP, RF, and TAC in each case, and reiterate exactly what you expected the behavior to be and what it actually was, that would be helpful.

Problem is that something broke dawn after 12.2.2/12.2.3. As a result new (12.2.4/12.3.1) RF updates tanks during loading or placement, but TAC LS conversion patch in RFStockalike don't work (TAC LS is a same v0.13.0 for both screenshots):

(left screenshot RF v12.2.2, right RF v12.2.4)

Player.log and ModuleManger cache for test runs:

RF 12.2.2/TAC LS 0.13.0 (KSP 1.2.2)

RF 12.2.4/TAC LS 0.13.0 (KSP 1.2.2, broken tank conversion for TAC LS)

RF 12.2.3/TAC LS 0.13.5 (KSP 1.3)

RF 12.3.1/TAC LS 0.13.5 (KSP 1.3, broken tank conversion for TAC LS)

[Gordon Dry]

One of the problems is created by GameData\ThunderAerospace\TacLifeSupportMFT\MM_AddResourcesMFT.cfg itself, it defaults to "LifeSupportAll", it should be changed to "ServiceModule" in the first place.

Actually I also (still) have problems left trying to make my patch work because "something else" (other patches) are borking the values, I still didn't find the culprit.

Generally the latest RF works, but all these "immersive" patches in RealFuels-Stockalike and TAC-LS itself are killing the fun again.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Gordon Dry

[blowfish]

@Canis Dirus Leidy Okay, you're totally right, thanks for being patient with this issue.

I think that the issue is in GameData/RealFuels/zFuelTanks.cfg .  If you go in there and delete this line:

!RESOURCE[MonoPropellant] {}

It should work.  Could you try that and let me know what happens?

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

18 hours ago, blowfish said:

  Could you try that and let me know what happens?

The problem has disappeared, RFStockalike again started to work fine with TAC LS.

[Iso-Polaris]

There's a mistake regarding to spaceY 7.5m Fuel tanks in RealFuel-stocklike configs

My mistake

Edited August 22, 2017 by Iso-Polaris

[mg1142]

On 17/08/2017 at 7:53 AM, blowfish said:

RealFuels v12.3.1 for KSP 1.3

• Actually fix the bug with tanks not getting their contents correctly (not fixed in v12.3.0)

DO NOT INSTALL THIS VERSION IF YOU ARE RUNNING KSP 1.2.2.  IT WILL NOT WORK

I have a problem with getting the content of one single tank correctly: the SSTU - SC TANK - MFT-A - Standard Tank. The problem is that when I increase its size, the maximum amount of fuel I can put it doesn't change. Is that RF or SSTU's problem? 

Do you know if v12.3.1 will correct that bug? 

 

Thanks

Edited August 25, 2017 by mg1142

[blowfish]

1 hour ago, mg1142 said:

I have a problem with getting the content of one single tank correctly: the SSTU - SC TANK - MFT-A - Standard Tank. The problem is that when I increase its size, the maximum amount of fuel I can put it doesn't change. Is that RF or SSTU's problem? 

Do you know if v12.3.1 will correct that bug? 

 

Thanks

I haven't heard of such a problem and I don't think any recent changes in RF would affect it.  Might want to ask in the SSTU thread (be sure to provide logs of course) E: saw that you did, might want to include logs though because those are an important debugging tool.  Visit the support link in my signature if you're not sure how to get them

Edited August 25, 2017 by blowfish

[mg1142]

28 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Visit the support link in my signature if you're not sure how to get them

Thanks for your reply! Will do.

[Calvin_Maclure]

Quick question, but is this mod good to go with Fuel Tanks Plus?

[Calvin_Maclure]

@NathanKell, I reworked the text in the OP (starting at the ''FUEL MIXTURES'' after the Q&A section of the second comment) as there were several minor mistakes or additions that I thought would be useful amend, such as adding chemical formulas and common names, text refinements including punctuation corrections and the like. 

Here's the Word (docx) DropBox link if you care at all to look at it or use it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngazog3sbwrv0ik/Real Fuels Wiki.docx?dl=0

CM

[Trash_Lord]

Hey I've been having an issue regarding the boil-off with cyro fuels, and the obscene rate at which it happens (like 9 hours for all the hydrogen in a shielded service module). I've been looking all over for a solution, and have tried to look at some of the code behind it and i'm not much closer to solving anything. Even if nobody has a solution, if someone could point me in the right direction that'd be great! Thanks!

[Starwaster]

On 10/8/2017 at 9:38 PM, Trash_Lord said:

Hey I've been having an issue regarding the boil-off with cyro fuels, and the obscene rate at which it happens (like 9 hours for all the hydrogen in a shielded service module). I've been looking all over for a solution, and have tried to look at some of the code behind it and i'm not much closer to solving anything. Even if nobody has a solution, if someone could point me in the right direction that'd be great! Thanks!

Make sure that the part you are using as a service module is actually tank type service module or else it isn't really a service module.

That matters a lot.  When mousing over the part in the VAB, it will tell you what the tank type is.

[Commissar]

On 10/12/2017 at 2:37 AM, Starwaster said:

Make sure that the part you are using as a service module is actually tank type service module or else it isn't really a service module.

That matters a lot.  When mousing over the part in the VAB, it will tell you what the tank type is.

i also find a pretty quick boiloff when using cryogenic type tanks... to the point that i generally only use hydrogen for main and 2nd stages. it boils off completely in a matter of days. if intended, no real complaints. i can always use mmh/aerozine/hupergolic/ion

Edited October 23, 2017 by Commissar

[Starwaster]

6 minutes ago, Commissar said:

i also find a pretty quick boiloff when using cryogenic type tanks... to the point that i generally only use hydrogen for main and 2nd stages. it boils off completely in a matter of days. if intended, no real complaints. i can always use mmh/aerozine/hupergolic/ion

Even IRL, boiloff (from a historical standpoint) is such a problem that the solution is to just pre-allocate extra such that you'll have enough for your needs. In other words, extra hydrogen that serves no purpose other than to be boiled off and doesn't help get you into orbit so it's basically wasted mass.

To put things into perspective, the Saturn V S-IVB boiled off approximately one ton of hydrogen (over 31,000 liters) after about 2 hours or more in parking orbit prior to its trans lunar injection burn.

The default tank type is analogous to the tanks used by Saturn and assume the same construction material and insulation (aluminum tanks for H2 and several inches of polyurethane foam)

Even after all this time I'm still not sure what real world equivalent would be considered a 'cryogenic tank' but I think we've always pretty much assumed it to be spray on insulation combined with multilayer insulation, that goldish looking mylar film. Probably about 20 layers of it or so.

To further put things into perspective, a 20mx10m tank with SOFI + 60-70 layers of MLI is projected to reduce the heat leakage from tens of kilowatts to 78 watts in LEO. (the place where you can expect to receive the most heat leakage into your tanks) A future update to Real Fuels will allow players to configure exactly how much MLI their tanks have and have pricing and mass change accordingly. (not that it has a lot of mass but it might matter for small launchers where ever kg counfr hu s)

And i looks like he  ke and he  ke on m keboard have sopped working.

Goddammi

[Commissar]

okaie dokie. i feel your pain with the keyboard. mine died not long ago.

[Starwaster]

2 minutes ago, Commissar said:

okaie dokie. i feel your pain with the keyboard. mine died not long ago.

I just pulled the keys off and there was a bunch of cat fur built up under them. It's really nasty. I think  MAYBE it was just preventing the keys from functioning properly... seems ok now but I think this keyboard is about 17 years or older... probably about 19 years old given that it mentions Windows 98 on the bottom of it. So it could just be failing after all tthis ime and it's just time to get another keyboard. Problem is ha I have horrible luck with USB keboards... crap i's happening again. sigh. well ou get he idea

[Commissar]

yeah. i got myself a $60 mechanical... uses chinese cherry mx knockoffs. very happy with it so far. mechanical might help your typing speed too. otherwise, yoiu could get a model m, ps/2 with buckling springs...

on another note, you might want to update the metadata for realfuels. AVC think it's incompatible wit 1.3.1 (which i can confirm is not the case

[blowfish]

RealFuels v12.4.0 for KSP 1.3.1

• Recompile for KSP 1.3.1
• Fix MM configs with more than one pass in kethane tanks config

[blowfish]

RealFuels v12.4.1 for KSP 1.3.1

• Don't double heat flux (workaround which is no longer necessary in KSP 1.3.1)
• Actually update .version file

[Arivald Ha'gel]

On 10/25/2017 at 7:42 AM, blowfish said:

RealFuels v12.4.1 for KSP 1.3.1

• Don't double heat flux (workaround which is no longer necessary in KSP 1.3.1)
• Actually update .version file

When can we expect it on CKAN?