[1.8+] Real Fuels

[dlrk]

I gotta say, again I think too many of the engines are one shot only. I don't see anything here that could be used like a J-2, for example

[TomatoSoup]

I fixed the problems I had. Turns out the default .cfg provided is incompatible. All over the place it has "configuration = LiquidFuel+LiquidOxygen" which isn't valid. So I went through and changed all of those to valid things. For those of you who would like this fix.

http://pastebin.com/xDtKJ4h9

[NathanKell]

Ouch, that was stupid of me. Thanks, TomatoSoup!

I've updated the file in post #2

rhoark: Here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64118-0-23-Real-Fuels-v4-2-1-13-14?p=893650&viewfull=1#post893650

Note that you will have to delete the existing NTR configs in RealFuels/ before using it. But since TomatoSoup found the error in MFS3.3 configs before I did, you could also just redownload that...

[Chestburster]

I've updated the 3.3 "stockalike" configs to be compatible with 4.2. You can use them until J_Davis has finished his version.

4.2 "Stockalike" Config

Excel-DL

*Note: FTmN's aren't supported yet since they are using the new ModuleEngineFX.

[DasBananenbrot]

Nice, thank you immediately going to download this

[HoneyFox]

I've updated the 3.3 "stockalike" configs to be compatible with 4.2. You can use them until J_Davis has finished his version.

4.2 "Stockalike" Config

Excel-DL

*Note: FTmN's aren't supported yet since they are using the new ModuleEngineFX.

Wait, I'm confused, are there two or three versions of stock-alike engine configs? i thought you were all maintaining the same version before...

[Chestburster]

Just tell me if any engines are missing. I'm not really up-to-date atm. Life is still busy -.-

@HoneyFox

J_Davis is working on the "official" RealFuels config (i provided the raw stock data for him, he's doing the balancing). I've just updated the old 3.3 config to fully work with the new system until the new configs are out.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Chestburster

[MAKC]

How about a high density ballast resource for adjusting the DCoM? It would make balancing crafts a lot easier. I know I could probably do this myself but it would be nice to have something "official" so craft files can be shared easily.

[Agathorn]

How about a high density ballast resource for adjusting the DCoM? It would make balancing crafts a lot easier. I know I could probably do this myself but it would be nice to have something "official" so craft files can be shared easily.

Is that real?

[MAKC]

Is that real?

Affirmative.

[Scripto23]

Sweet!

Few questions if I might:

1. Have you removed all reaction wheels (unless SpaceX actually uses them, but if so they probably have like 0.001 torque max)

2. Is ElectricCharge used as kJ, with EC rates in kW? (for example, a 3kWh battery, aka 10,800kJ battery, would be stored as maxAmount = 10800 EC, and a system that used 485W would have rate 0.485 EC)

3. If SpaceX uses biprop RCS, you can add two ModuleRCS (hattip: stupid_chris) one set for each fuel, to replicate biprop RCS. If they use monoprop RCS, never mind. (Use correct Isp for both modules; use thrusterPower * volumePercent for each, where volumePercent = percent of total mixture by volume for that propellant). See my latest FASA.cfg for examples.

4. Do the part masses for F9 and F9H match what's been released? Do all parts of Dragon sum to the latest released dry mass for Dragon? (I ask because I notice for a lot of parts you're not touching mass, only rescaleFactor...)

1. I love reaction wheels even though they are terribly unrealistic. I've been using them for myself but for a proper release they should definitely be removed so I'll do that.

2. The number 16800 for a battery appeared for the Dragon seven man capsule. All I could find was that the Dragon uses "4 redundant Li-po batteries" and that number sounded good so I left it. Sources have the solar panels listed as 5kW peak so I set charge rate at 2.5/sec (5 for the two panels combined)

3.The Draco thrusters on the Dragon (different from Super Draco used primarily as a LES) are used for RCS. They use the same hypergolic fuel as the Super Dracos (MMH + N2O4) however at the time I didn't know how to replace the traditional RCS with that. Should that just set that up as biprop then?

4. Yes, to the best of my knowledge and research. Though it can be a bit more challenging to find precise numbers on a rocket that hasn't even been built yet. If anybody finds corrected values on what I have listed, then please let me know and I'll fix it.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Scripto23

[Elokaynu]

NathanKell regarding the scroll on selecting the fuels I've tried every known res supported by both my pcs even tried fresh installs, still nothing

[djnattyd]

@Nathan Is there (will there be) a way to get this to work with the replacement effects from HotRockets?

[NathanKell]

Scripto23:

1. Ah.

2. That sounds about right (4 and 2/3 kWh--about what Gemini had. And Gemini had cells; Dragon has solar). Yup, 5kW peak means 2.5EC/s each!

3. At the moment the only way is to add dual RCS modules. You figure out the ratio you'd use via the volume calculator (let's say 0.4 MMH and 0.6 NTO for simplicity), and say the Dracos are 100N. So you create one ModuleRCS of power=0.04 and resourceName=MMH, and one with power=0.06 and resourceName=NTO. Set both modules' atmosphereCurves to the appropriate Draco Isp.

4. Ah, cool! No worries, so much of htis is hope and guesswork... :}

Elokaynu: Huh. Don't know what to tell you at this point. I really can't take on totally redesigning the RF interface right now though. Is that the *only* window, including the only window using that skin (MJ uses that skin, try opening MJ windows that require scrolling, like the Custom Window Editor window), where scrolling doesn't work?

Also, make *sure* you don't have any ModularFuelTanks.dll anywhere in GameData, and you only have 1 RealFuels.dll in anywhere GameData. And post your KSP_win/KSP_Data/output_log.txt somewhere.

djnattyd: Since I'm now on board with that project and writing support for it into RealFuels...yes.

[J_Davis]

On the stockalikes I've been working on. I've been extensively... 'testing' them lately and run into some concerns I want input on. Mechjeb, especially when landing, loves to toggle the engines on and off repeatedly, and it won't ensure proper ullage on engines. I can make this 'okay' with the stockalikes by giving them a large number of reignites, disabling ullage simulations, or by turning off limited ignitions altogether. What do stockalike users want?

[Shad0wCatcher]

As a stockalike user, I'd prefer keeping limited ignitions off until Sarbian and/or codepoet can update MJ to allow for ullage simulation (starting and finishing burns with RCS, using RCS more rigorously for gentle course corrections and landing speed reductions, etc). I believe sarbian was working on it (either a post here or in the MJ thread to the effect). Same with ullage simulation for the exact same reason. Basically keeping stockalike as "real fuels light" with the option (if folks use notepad++) for quick and easy reassignment of ullage simulation at least. Reignitions would be much more difficult as the different engines would all have differing reignition ability..unless that's just being coded by engine type (L L+ U U+ O etc).

[Elokaynu]

NathanKell: I've located a modularFuelTanks.dll under RealFuels Plugins, but when deleted it make it to where the stretchy tanks become the "G" key to select between the 5

Also - I do not have a RealFuels.dll any where

Also it seems that is the only one, I have one with MC that scroll does work

Edited January 16, 2014 by Elokaynu

[HoneyFox]

On the stockalikes I've been working on. I've been extensively... 'testing' them lately and run into some concerns I want input on. Mechjeb, especially when landing, loves to toggle the engines on and off repeatedly, and it won't ensure proper ullage on engines. I can make this 'okay' with the stockalikes by giving them a large number of reignites, disabling ullage simulations, or by turning off limited ignitions altogether. What do stockalike users want?

Guess that you can provide some more ignition count for these hypergolic fuel engines (i think lander engines are always hypergol, right?). Currently it has 24 IIRC and we might increase that number a bit more like 60~80 temporarily? (you can also take a look at my EI configs for reference)

In additions, you can change some of these to be pressure-fed (that's for my next EI version, currently you just make it "disable ullage sim") to make them suitable for MJ landing.

[Agathorn]

@Scripto23

I tried out the Falcon 9 for a brief period last night but ran into two problems with your supplied craft file.

1) My Kerbals died due to lack of oxygen, before even obtaining orbit (though strangely I Still had control afterwards)

2) The rocket was INCREDIBLY unstable from first stage on up. It tended to pitch over way too much and for some reason the gimbals didn't have the ability to really control it much.

[NathanKell]

J_Davis: I don't offhand recall a single landing engine (other than USAF's proposed use of RL-10 in this capacity) that wasn't pressure-fed, and most pressure-fed engines can IMO be set to unlimited ignitions.

Speaking of this stuff--anyone got any ideas on a good way to model residuals?

Elokaynu: Ok. Now, load KSP, try to scroll the RF window (by dragging the bar downards), and then quit. Then upload your ksp/KSP_Data/output_log.txt file.

[Starwaster]

Guess that you can provide some more ignition count for these hypergolic fuel engines (i think lander engines are always hypergol, right?). Currently it has 24 IIRC and we might increase that number a bit more like 60~80 temporarily? (you can also take a look at my EI configs for reference)

In additions, you can change some of these to be pressure-fed (that's for my next EI version, currently you just make it "disable ullage sim") to make them suitable for MJ landing.

I thought IRL hypergolic engines had infinite amount of ignitions since the fuel is self igniting... is that wrong???

[NathanKell]

You might think so. But e.g. the first Agenas weren't restarable IIRC and D and GATV were only qualified for 16 ignitions.

[Scripto23]

Agathorn,

1. Which life support mod are you using? Also the pod is designed to be piloted unmanned if desired so that it can be used as a Cargo capsule for resupply missions to space stations and such (Dragon CRS).

2. What (if any) was the payload? The rockets can be very finicky when it comes to stability, but when setup as they are in the craft files they should have been ok. What kind of ascent profile did you use?

[Agathorn]

Agathorn,

1. Which life support mod are you using? Also the pod is designed to be piloted unmanned if desired so that it can be used as a Cargo capsule for resupply missions to space stations and such (Dragon CRS).

2. What (if any) was the payload? The rockets can be very finicky when it comes to stability, but when setup as they are in the craft files they should have been ok. What kind of ascent profile did you use?

1) I'm using asmi's that is recommended for RO

2) I simply loaded the craft file and launched. Used a pretty standard ascent profile like I sue on most of my other rockets. Started my turn around 120m/s, about a 5 degree pitch to start the indicator drifting. But as I pitched over to about 15 degrees I started losing all control and the rocket kept going over to nearly 90 degrees, at which point nothing I did would fix the profile. I fought it as best I could from there on. It wanted to roll a lot, but I could control that if I stayed on the controls. However at that point while roll responded well,l yaw and pitch did not.

[Agathorn]

1) I'm using asmi's that is recommended for RO

2) I simply loaded the craft file and launched. Used a pretty standard ascent profile like I sue on most of my other rockets. Started my turn around 120m/s, about a 5 degree pitch to start the indicator drifting. But as I pitched over to about 15 degrees I started losing all control and the rocket kept going over to nearly 90 degrees, at which point nothing I did would fix the profile. I fought it as best I could from there on. It wanted to roll a lot, but I could control that if I stayed on the controls. However at that point while roll responded well,l yaw and pitch did not.

When I get home tonight i'll see if I can do a video to show you.