[1.8+] Real Fuels

[Starwaster]

2 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

I should mention that:

Edit:

There is really something borked between RealFuels, SolverEngines, MechJeb regarding ullage and what, like the log spamming with

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Propellant].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.UpdateSolver (EngineThermodynamics ambientTherm, Double altitude, Vector3d vel, Double mach, Boolean sIgnited, Boolean oxygen, Boolean underwater) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at SolverEngines.ModuleEnginesSolver.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Full log:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9xp3z52fa2qmpo9/2017-05-10-1 KSP.log.7z?dl=1

Maybe you broke something when you reinstalled Real Fuels.

• Delete Real Fuels, Solver Engines and Community Resource Pack and reinstall Real Fuels using the RealFuels_v12.1.0.zip file.
• Also fall back to MechJeb build 696
• And for god's sake, get rid of Simple Boiloff. It's a second source of boiloff (Real Fuels has its own) that you can't get rid of except with their proprietary cooler because neither stock radiator nor Heat Pump will eliminate and their own cooler wont do anything for Real Fuels boiloff. There's no point in having both.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Starwaster

[Gordon Dry]

1 hour ago, Starwaster said:

And for god's sake, get rid of Simple Boiloff.

I redownloaded Real Fuels and did a file verify as I always do with my lovely Total Commander - bitwise - so it's all okay.
I fall back to MechJeb #696

I got none of SimpleBoiloff (I don't have that in my mod archive either), in a quick search I only found 3 files with a
:NEEDS[SimpleBoiloff

The files are
GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\Kontainers\CryoTanks.cfg
GameData\WildBlueIndustries\MOLE\ModuleManagerPatches\MM_CryoEngines.cfg
GameData\WildBlueIndustries\000WildBlueTools\ModuleManagerPatches\MM_CryoEngines.cfg

Inside the ModuleManager.ConfigCache or even ModuleManager.Physics is no trace of SimpleBoiloff ...

I guess when it says :NEEDS[SimpleBoiloff but the mod is not installed then the patch is not done?
Or is it still a problem?

EDIT:

Oh wait!
I found it, it's
GameData\CryoTanks\Plugins\SimpleBoiloff.dll

Come on, why is CryoTanks always going on my nerves ...

Edited May 10, 2017 by Gordon Dry

[Donchielo]

Hello,

I installed your mod (last version on 1.2.2 with RO), but for some reasons procedural parts are not there. I can't find a way to get them. Any idea of what is going on? 

[Starwaster]

8 minutes ago, Donchielo said:

Hello,

I installed your mod (last version on 1.2.2 with RO), but for some reasons procedural parts are not there. I can't find a way to get them. Any idea of what is going on? 

Did you install Procedural Parts?

[MaxZhao]

7 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

I should mention that:

Edit:

There is really something borked between RealFuels, SolverEngines, MechJeb regarding ullage and what, like the log spamming with

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Propellant].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.UpdateSolver (EngineThermodynamics ambientTherm, Double altitude, Vector3d vel, Double mach, Boolean sIgnited, Boolean oxygen, Boolean underwater) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at SolverEngines.ModuleEnginesSolver.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Full log:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9xp3z52fa2qmpo9/2017-05-10-1 KSP.log.7z?dl=1

It will be broken if you use stockalike config and RFstockalike config together

Edit: did he just delete his post or sth?

Edit2: nvm

Edited May 10, 2017 by MaxZhao

[Donchielo]

Mmmh no but I get it now xD thanks!

[Gordon Dry]

So I did all what you said and also deleted SimpeBoiloff.dll but the ullage still won't work, neither in auto-staging nor manual.

And this issue is also still existing:

 

[Starwaster]

8 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

So I did all what you said and also deleted SimpeBoiloff.dll but the ullage still won't work, neither in auto-staging nor manual.

And this issue is also still existing:

 

I was very specific as to WHY I told you that you should remove simple boiloff and it was because it duplicated (poorly) functionality that Real Fuels already has and there's no reason for you to keep it around adding another source of boiloff. It wasn't a troubleshooting step.

[Gordon Dry]

Hmm. Inside the Difficulty Settings in SPC I have two entries where also boiloff can be adjusted: Bluedog Design Bureau and SSTU - both default to 50%.
When I move the slider I only can choose between 0% and 100% - so I chose 0% for both (not your issue, just to mention).

I guess you don't want to have settings like that available in the menu.

So I just orbited a probe with Cryogenic Tanks and added graphene radiators with enough dissipation and I can see the part temps with the according ALT+F12 setting - it says the internal temp of the tanks is 4° Kelvin but they still get boiloff.
Or does the skin temperature also plays a role? Has it also to get low enough that the boiloff can stop?
I ask because the temp drops very slow.

If not that would be so frustrating, in that case I guess if I recover the deleted SimpleBoiloff.dll they stop boiling off because of the temperature...

[Starwaster]

32 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

Hmm. Inside the Difficulty Settings in SPC I have two entries where also boiloff can be adjusted: Bluedog Design Bureau and SSTU - both default to 50%.
When I move the slider I only can choose between 0% and 100% - so I chose 0% for both (not your issue, just to mention).

I guess you don't want to have settings like that available in the menu.

So I just orbited a probe with Cryogenic Tanks and added graphene radiators with enough dissipation and I can see the part temps with the according ALT+F12 setting - it says the internal temp of the tanks is 4° Kelvin but they still get boiloff.
Or does the skin temperature also plays a role? Has it also to get low enough that the boiloff can stop?
I ask because the temp drops very slow.

If not that would be so frustrating, in that case I guess if I recover the deleted SimpleBoiloff.dll they stop boiling off because of the temperature...

Real Fuel's boiloff works with the stock thermal system so you can adjust it using the stock thermal physics sliders. Between adjusting radiation and conductivity you can do whatever you want to it. I don't use the 3rd party parts (graphene radiators or 3rd party tanks) that you mention and have no idea how they are configured. To reduce or eliminate boiloff in Real Fuels requires both passive (tanks properly configured to insulate) and active (either stock radiators or the mod Heat Pumps which was designed specifically for Real Fuels)

The CryoTanks mod might SAY they are insulated and designed for cryogenic fuels but that means nothing if they are not properly configured for Real Fuels cryogenic tank support. Simple Boiloff uses entirely arbitrary rates and is not governed by temperature or heat flux or any realistic physics. It has nothing to do with anything that happens in Real Fuels.

[How to: KSP]

how can u install real fuels without realsim overhaul; pls help

[Gaarst]

Read the part called "INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS".

[Gordon Dry]

Oh man, I got neat fps on launch, but then the boosters were decoupled and the log spamming began:

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
  at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[Propellant].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.UpdateSolver (EngineThermodynamics ambientTherm, Double altitude, Vector3d vel, Double mach, Boolean sIgnited, Boolean oxygen, Boolean underwater) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at SolverEngines.ModuleEnginesSolver.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RealFuels.ModuleEnginesRF.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Logs:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m04amtajhycgesh/2017-05-19-1 KSP.log.zip?dl=1

[Starwaster]

You have a version mismatch somewhere. Between solverengines and rf probably. 

How did you install it?

Edit: Actually, never mind how. Delete your RealFuels and SolverEngines folders and reinstall from the RealFuels_v12.1.0.zip file

Edited May 19, 2017 by Starwaster

[Gordon Dry]

The only difference between my installed files and the ones from the 12.10. zip were the two files
GameData\SolverEngines\Plugins\PluginData\SolverEngines\config.xml
GameData\SolverEngines\Plugins\PluginData\SolverEngines\EngineDatabse.cfg

I deleted them.

But I have other issues with missing parts whatsoever...

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at PartLoader.GetDatabaseConfig (.Part p) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at PartLoader.GetDatabaseConfig (.Part p, System.String nodeName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at DragCubeSystem.LoadDragCubes (.Part p) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part+<Start>c__Iterator38.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (IEnumerator enumerator, IntPtr returnValueAddress) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

and I really don't know where to look for it ...

It's so nice that Unity is not capable of telling exactly where the error is located...

---

Here it is:

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Gordon Dry

[Starwaster]

22 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

The only difference between my installed files and the ones from the 12.10. zip were the two files
GameData\SolverEngines\Plugins\PluginData\SolverEngines\config.xml
GameData\SolverEngines\Plugins\PluginData\SolverEngines\EngineDatabse.cfg

I deleted them.

I didn't say 'delete two files of your choosing'

I said, delete the entire two FOLDERS. Not just delete. Gone. Destroyed. They're history.

Then reinstall from the zip.

This isn't a bug, there's nothing wrong with Real Fuels or Solver Engines and if you install them correctly they work

[Gordon Dry]

Okay, I use Total Commander with a bitwise verify function - left half of the screen is the contents of the downloaded .zip, right half of the screen is the contents of the GameData subfolder I actually verify.

I do this step-by-step for all subfolders of dependencies and main mods.

So deleting files and adding EXACTLY the same files doesn't make any difference.

I use Total Commander since 1999, I know how to do.

I'm not a "Windows-Explorer-Drag'n'Drop-User", just to make it clear.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Gordon Dry

[danfarnsy]

8 hours ago, Starwaster said:

I didn't say 'delete two files of your choosing'

 

49 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

So deleting files and adding EXACTLY the same files doesn't make any difference.

@Gordon Dry, for knowing better than the mod authors what to do, you sure spend a lot of time asking them to support and fix your stuff. How about you do everybody a favor, and when you ask for help to fix your messes, you be polite and follow the instructions? You just did this to JPLRepo, complaining about the fact that he'd like you to log a github issue, instead of saying, "Oh, sure, I can do that!" If they happen to give you faulty instructions, fine, but first follow those faulty instructions. You asked for them, after all!

[Starwaster]

@Gordon Dry

If you are so much of an expert, you should be able to fix this yourself. That's what I would do if I were in your position. And I would succeed. I wish you equal success. Good luck.

[Gordon Dry]

Okay, if you feel annoyed by my means of rationality then I will

with the hope of any difference.

[danfarnsy]

17 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

Okay, if you feel annoyed by my means of rationality

Your own rationality might be a bit more rational if it included the humility and grace to recognize that others here, particularly the mod authors you ask for support, are also rational people, deserving of mutual appreciation and respect, who have no rational reason to support your megamod KSP install. Perhaps they could be inspired by your vision for what an awesome setup that megamod install might be if you didn't immediately destroy any sense of empathy by demanding the authors, who have nothing to do with you, fix your problem, which has nothing to do with them. Rational interaction requires mutual appreciation and respect.

Instead, you give a snarky "then I will OBEY," as if you hadn't yourself requested it. You're here in these forums, asking in many mod threads, for help. This suggests that you need help, doesn't it? Then why turn around and fight against the help you need? If anything, it is supremely irrational. I'd like to invite you to have more esteem and appreciation for your fellow users, so we in turn can have more for you.

[blowfish]

@Gordon Dry I did manage to find out that this config in AmpYear is corrupt.  It's effectively creating an empty resource node.  This appears to be the cause of at least some of the exceptions you are seeing

https://github.com/JPLRepo/AmpYear/blob/master/Distribution/GameData/REPOSoftTech/AmpYear/MMConfigAmpYear.cfg#L15

Edited May 21, 2017 by blowfish

[Gordon Dry]

4 hours ago, danfarnsy said:

megamod install

I'm not sure if this is so mega. Just RO, RP-0, RSS, all their dependencies, recommendations, a few of the suggestions and a hand-full extra.

4 hours ago, blowfish said:

It's effectively creating an empty resource node.

A nice find. Thank you.

@ everybody:

It happens that I sound rude or something. But everybody has own subjective meanings of what is respectful and what not. And I did not say that I demand anything. I just put all logs together in a .zip (a few days ago it was .7z but that alone seems to annoy people and so I obeyed and switched to .zip) and also try to find the culprit on my own - and surely I am a little bit according to the motto "Time for Outrage!" relating to quirks of the Unity engine.

And that it is necessary to go back to stock to troubleshoot again and again seems to be a bad "habit" of the API - my subjective opinion.

I don't want the stock system, I don't like LqdFuel and Oxidizer in my install and I don't like log spamming with just senseless information (no exceptions, just a single line of nothing again and again).

If it happens that my postings excite people it could be it's not my post but the paradigm of the people who get excited.

We're living in a time frame of neoliberalism and people are strained all over the world.

To end this paragraph, I should mention that I'm an agnostic. I'm not sure if that helps anybody who is bugged by me, but I can try.

 

[Gordon Dry]

5 hours ago, blowfish said:

I did manage to find out that this config in AmpYear is corrupt.

So my MM patch skills are bad, but could it be like this? (I just want to learn)

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[MechJebAR202],!MODULE[MechJebPod]]:NEEDS[AmpYear&!RealismOverhaul]
{
    RESOURCE
	{
		name = ReservePower
		amount = 80
		maxAmount = 80
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = AYCrewPart
	}
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],!MODULE[MechJebAR202],!MODULE[MechJebPod]]:NEEDS[AmpYear&RealismOverhaul]
{
    RESOURCE
	{
		%name = ReservePower
		%amount = 1000
		%maxAmount = 1000
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = AYCrewPart
	}	
}

@PART[*]:HAS[!MODULE[KerbalEVA],!MODULE[FlagSite]]:NEEDS[AmpYear]
{    
	MODULE
	{
		name = AYPart
	}
}

changing from @ to %

[blowfish]

4 hours ago, Gordon Dry said:

So my MM patch skills are bad, but could it be like this? (I just want to learn)

changing from @ to %

I think it was probably meant to be the same as the first patch, so just remove the @.  You should definitely report this as a bug in that mod.