[1.2] TweakableEverything 1.16-beta - For all your part tweaking needs

[toadicus]

Modules added via ModuleManager should be in the prefab because they were added to the part's configuration node before the part was compiled.

It's (probably) only when we do part.AddModule("ModuleMySuperUltraCoolModule") that they're not in the prefab.

That's always been the source of those 'cannot load module #x, the part only has y modules' warnings. Or was, I haven't seen any since 0.24

At any rate, I've been thinking we should be adding to the prefabs instead, if we can.

They are in the prefab, and ModuleManager does add to the prefab, as you say. Squad's new part loading code appears to disregard the prefab when it thinks it is wrong, and replaces the cloned prefab modules with new modules as stored in the persistence/craft file. That's what the "replace PartModule 'moduleName1' with 'moduleName2'" messages are in Obsessed's logs. It flies in the face of everything modders have been using for forward-compatibility in the past and, IMO, is a pretty big problem.

[BudgetHedgehog]

It flies in the face of everything modders have been using for forward-compatibility in the past and, IMO, is a pretty big problem.

Nooooo... Squad plz fix... Is is something MM can work around?

[OOZ662]

I must admit it is great fun having to completely rebuild a vessel essentially every time I add a mod. Except minus the fun. It doesn't help that ModAdmin constantly deletes my module manager dll as well, but that's just me not learning to use it right, I guess.

[toadicus]

Nooooo... Squad plz fix... Is is something MM can work around?

I think the answer to that is "yes". I've done a bit of testing and informed sarbian of my thoughts.

I must admit it is great fun having to completely rebuild a vessel essentially every time I add a mod. Except minus the fun. It doesn't help that ModAdmin constantly deletes my module manager dll as well, but that's just me not learning to use it right, I guess.

Not fun, but still great? I'm hopeful we'll find a way around it, and further hoping that Squad fixes their fix in the upcoming fix-fixing update.

[LostOblivion]

I must admit it is great fun having to completely rebuild a vessel essentially every time I add a mod. Except minus the fun. It doesn't help that ModAdmin constantly deletes my module manager dll as well, but that's just me not learning to use it right, I guess.

Indeed. 0.24 is completely broken for me and I'm not playing it. Going back to my 0.23.5 backup until Squad gets their crap together. Not taking my career to 0.24 until all the mods I use work with all of my existing crafts, subassemblies, and in-flight crafts out of the box.

[Olympic1]

Indeed. 0.24 is completely broken for me and I'm not playing it. Going back to my 0.23.5 backup until Squad gets their crap together. Not taking my career to 0.24 until all the mods I use work with all of my existing crafts, subassemblies, and in-flight crafts out of the box.

Squad makes it just too hard for the modders to update their mods without breaking anything.

[toadicus]

Indeed. 0.24 is completely broken for me and I'm not playing it. Going back to my 0.23.5 backup until Squad gets their crap together. Not taking my career to 0.24 until all the mods I use work with all of my existing crafts, subassemblies, and in-flight crafts out of the box.

Squad makes it just too hard for the modders to update their mods without breaking anything.

In fairness to Squad, I'm pretty sure this bug/feature/"feature"/thing was actually intended to make things better for modders: in a completely stock game, such a functionality has zero use whatsoever. It didn't work out, but I have inferred from a few statements elsewhere that it's among the things they're addressing in the upcoming fix. Yes, it's frustrating for all of us on this side of the veil, but I don't think it's in our best interests to write them off just yet.

On another note: I'm vacationing this weekend through next Wednesday! There won't be any support available from me during that period.

Edited July 24, 2014 by toadicus

[rabidsi]

Hi, toadicus (hope you had a happy holiday I guess!).

I was putting together something silly today, but it required editing parameters down to very specific numbers and balancing them across different, non-symmetrical parts. Ultimately, I ended up editing the craft file directly for accuracy but my question was, would it be possible to add an "EDIT" button at the end of any scale slider so we can edit the value via text? It would help immensely for editing certain troublesome ranges, balancing and also just us (....) perfectionists who don't like seeing 10.31 when it could be a nice round 10.

Thanks for all the work and effort!

[LostOblivion]

Enjoy your holiday.

[lincourtl]

Enjoy your holiday toadicus, and thanks for the wonderful mod. Your work is very much appreciated.

[Drew Kerman]

hey toadicus, would this be something your mod could add to thrusters in addition to the thrust tweak? Disable RCS for rotation? / Enable RCS for translations only?

[Jikahn]

Hello, thanks for your mod Toadicus. I hope you are having a good holiday. To anyone who knows, is there a way to selectively choose which parts of the gimbals are reversed as opposed to just clicking reverse control and having my roll reversed as well. I found that when I have a "pull" type engine setup and I need to reverse the gimbal controls the roll doesn't need reversing. I end up with SAS and mechjeb wanting to spin the ship. I notice that there is a tweakablegimbal cfg. Is there something I can add there?

[toadicus]

hey toadicus, would this be something your mod could add to thrusters in addition to the thrust tweak? Disable RCS for rotation? / Enable RCS for translations only?

Hello, thanks for your mod Toadicus. I hope you are having a good holiday. To anyone who knows, is there a way to selectively choose which parts of the gimbals are reversed as opposed to just clicking reverse control and having my roll reversed as well. I found that when I have a "pull" type engine setup and I need to reverse the gimbal controls the roll doesn't need reversing. I end up with SAS and mechjeb wanting to spin the ship. I notice that there is a tweakablegimbal cfg. Is there something I can add there?

These requests are fairly related and at this point the short answer is that last I looked there's no easy way to work things like that into TE. I will have a read through that thread and have a look at other mods that provide similar functionality and see if it's something that this mod can cover. There's a real possibility that it's not, but I'll let you know once I've dug into the issues a bit.

[Drew Kerman]

appreciate that you're looking into it, totally understand if it's not possible/in scope

[freedomispopular]

The docking port shield toggle isn't showing up for me, even with a clean install. Any idea what's up?

[OrbitusII]

Squad makes it just too hard for the modders to update their mods without breaking anything.

Keep in mind that KSP is "In Development" and the devs not only cannot but will not guarantee that updates will not break mods. They try to do testing in experimentals to get an idea of what mods will be broken and how severely, but it's ultimately up to the modders themselves to keep their mods working across versions, at least until KSP 1.0.0 rolls around, where mod updating won't be as important.

Also consider KSP compared to something like Minecraft. When Minecraft updates, it's almost a guarantee that every mod breaks. KSP has several mods that break between versions, but there are mods that work across several versions without updates, like Kerbtown, which has gotten one hotfix to work with 0.23.0 and still works in 0.24.2.

[Sion Sheevok]

The docking port shield toggle isn't showing up for me, even with a clean install. Any idea what's up?

Same here. The shielded docking port doesn't seem to have a toggle action.

[toadicus]

The docking port shield toggle isn't showing up for me, even with a clean install. Any idea what's up?

Same here. The shielded docking port doesn't seem to have a toggle action.

Hmm, it works fine on my install. Do you have anything else installed that might be conflicting, or a log that I can check to look for issues?

[Sion Sheevok]

I too have the issue. I'm not available at the time, but I can see about some logs and what else might be at play later today.

[raath]

How about adding control surface max/flap/brake forces to this? I find that the default value of 15 is too high for most planes and usually reduce it down to between 5 and 8 depending on the type of SSTO I'm building, but in the case of cargo SSTOs I find that the Control Max which is stable for the laden take off is too high for the return journey and instability can result in some very interesting return profiles indeed. Is this something that you could consider adding to this mod to allow in flight adjustment of the control surface applied force?

[toadicus]

How about adding control surface max/flap/brake forces to this? I find that the default value of 15 is too high for most planes and usually reduce it down to between 5 and 8 depending on the type of SSTO I'm building, but in the case of cargo SSTOs I find that the Control Max which is stable for the laden take off is too high for the return journey and instability can result in some very interesting return profiles indeed. Is this something that you could consider adding to this mod to allow in flight adjustment of the control surface applied force?

Hmm, I need to think about this. In general I agree with Squad/FAR/whoever made those tweaks that as-is they belong in the editor. But, restricting them in flight could make sense and in the example you describe I'm guessing modern control systems would do something similar to help keep things controllable. What if I made an in-flight control range "throttle" that let you lower the value, but not raise it? So, the value you set in the editor would essentially be the "max" value. If you need your max value on the return trip instead of the departure, you tweak it down on the runway. Otherwise, you tweak it down on the way back as you describe.

The big downside to this is that there's no action-group-able way to operate tweakables, and in flight they don't apply symmetrically, so if you've got half a dozen sets of control surfaces you're going to be clicking and adjusting up to a dozen times. I've occasionally decided against things just because using the tweakables would often be overly laborious.

[WissNX01]

I noticed a few players also commenting that the toggle for some parts, in particular, the shielded docking port is missing. I confirm the same issue since the last patch on a fresh install with no other mods installed. I looked through the cfg file, but I do not see any place where that option might exist where it can be toggled. Any ideas? Thanks.

[toadicus]

The docking port shield toggle isn't showing up for me, even with a clean install. Any idea what's up?

Same here. The shielded docking port doesn't seem to have a toggle action.

I too have the issue. I'm not available at the time, but I can see about some logs and what else might be at play later today.

I noticed a few players also commenting that the toggle for some parts, in particular, the shielded docking port is missing. I confirm the same issue since the last patch on a fresh install with no other mods installed. I looked through the cfg file, but I do not see any place where that option might exist where it can be toggled. Any ideas? Thanks.

Once again: it works fine for me. I've checked the download archive and I don't see anything wrong there that's since been fixed on my end. Do you have all of TweakableEverything installed? TweakableDockingNode depends on TweakableStaging. Do you have exactly one version of ModuleManager installed? Is there anything else relevant you can tell me? Have you provided me with a debug log (Windows: \path\to\KSP_win\KSP_Data\output_log.txt; Linux: ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal\ Space\ Program/Player.log; Mac: ~/Library/Logs/Unity/Player.log)?

I'm happy to admit that there's a problem, but so far I haven't got enough information to identify it. "It's broken" only helps me fix it if it's broken for me too.

[drtedastro]

Hello to all.

I am 'trying' to be able to adjust decoupler force values in game, and not be hardwiring values in the part.cfg.

Will this mod allow that to be done, and if so, where can i find a method to do it..

thanks for any and all info.

[WissNX01]

I will upload a log file when I get home, but I did take a look at it and noticed that MM doesnt appear to be loading TweakableDockingNode. All the other entries are listed as loaded, so I am not sure if this helps or not.