HGR 1.875m parts R&D Thread [Mod reboot in progress] (First Dev build now available)

[Whirligig Girl]

Amazing Job Orionkermin, Do you use Ven's Stock revamp?? It's pretty awesome. Looking forward to seeing how the engines and pods turn out!!

I do, and they work together great! I think Orionkerman did say that's what he was trying to meet the standard of.

[Orionkermin]

Started working on the G-120. Still some refining to do and I have to make the aeroshell and frame.

I think I'm going to go back to the drawing board with the G-90 remake. It wasn't quite how I wanted it and now that the other two engines will have optional aeroshells/boatails it seemed like it should get one as well.

[Sauron]

While we catch you early on, is it possible to do tweakscale configs for your tanks and engines (and adapters) before you get too far in. It really helps build prettier rockets, in particular, I reall lean on those soyusz boosters and slanted black nosecones. But sometimes I need them in other sizes

[CERVERUS]

I'm really excited to redo ALL the spacecraft! It will come in due time, I'm working on everything as much as time allows me to.

For being my oldest part I think it's held up well though. It has a special meaning for me since it was my first ever mod. A little part of me will be sad to see the old radish retired, but it must happen.

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You replace the HGR57 "Radish" with something another?

[Orionkermin]

While we catch you early on, is it possible to do tweakscale configs for your tanks and engines (and adapters) before you get too far in. It really helps build prettier rockets, in particular, I reall lean on those soyusz boosters and slanted black nosecones. But sometimes I need them in other sizes

I don't think that will be a problem, I'll look into what goes into making them.

You replace the HGR57 "Radish" with something another?

Well no, what I mean is that I'm going to be remaking it so I'll miss the old version, since it was one of the first things I ever made.

[CERVERUS]

I don't think that will be a problem, I'll look into what goes into making them.

Well no, what I mean is that I'm going to be remaking it so I'll miss the old version, since it was one of the first things I ever made.

[Orionkermin]

So on the subject of the radish:

A while back Gregrox Mun suggested increasing the base size to 1.875m. How does everyone feel about that sort of change? My only real concern at this point is that it may seem a little big compared to the soy-juice, especially since I want to make the soy-juice reentry module 1.875 in the future as well. Just curious on the comunity's thoughts.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Orionkermin

[CERVERUS]

I prefer the size like be now,no 1.875!

If finally you choose the 1.875,i believe you must add one more seat...total 3 kerbals crew pod!

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Honestly if you retain those wonderful auto-shrouds that it used to have it almost doesn't matter what radius it is. I liked the previous diameter, because it was not so wide that it looked out of place on a size 1 stack, but it could still use the fairing and fit on a 1.875m rocket. unrelated, should we call this size 1.5?

[DevL]

Same size or enlarged, I prefer having it as a 2 kerbal crew pod.

[wasmic]

So on the subject of the radish:

A while back Gregrox Mun suggested increasing the base size to 1.875m. How does everyone feel about that sort of change? My only real concern at this point is that it may seem a little big compared to the soy-juice, especially since I want to make the soy-juice reentry module 1.875 in the future as well. Just curious on the comunity's thoughts.

I'm agnostic on the size, but it should stay as a 2 kerbal pod. But please, please make a service module that makes it look like the Gemini. The current radish-2.5m adapter doesn't have the right angle, and it looks kinda stupid IMO.

[Orionkermin]

~~~~ unrelated, should we call this size 1.5?

In layman terms yes, that is what you can call it. Much like 1.25 and 2.5 are often called size 1 and 2 respectfully. As the mod author I prefer to say the exact measurements, so there's no confusion.

~~~ But please, please make a service module that makes it look like the Gemini. The current radish-2.5m adapter doesn't have the right angle, and it looks kinda stupid IMO.

So far it seems that most people either don't care or prefer the original size. I'm somewhat surprised, as I had assumed people wouldn't like having it an awkward size. (Although I prefer the original size as well to be honest)

Anyway, just did some rough sketches and I'm pretty sure that by using what is basically the same size for the pod, I can create an appropriate looking SM that would act as an adapter for 1.875m. (My plans for future SMs is that they are basically thematic cargobays/interstages) Then I could make a small 1.25m adapter/decoupler like the current one as a separate part. (Without the need for fiddly nodes) The 2.5m adapter would be dropped as it's sort of unneeded.

I plan to actually make the top 0.625 size and add a more appropriate chute. The pod will stay at a two kerbal capacity.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Hey as long as you're doing all that re-fiddling with it, how about an appropriately size crew tank/adapter ala the Gemini "big G"?

[Orionkermin]

Hey as long as you're doing all that re-fiddling with it, how about an appropriately size crew tank/adapter ala the Gemini "big G"?

Yes, it's been requested a lot so sure I'll make a big R this time. Might also make the little one man lander that was proposed for the gemin LOR mission, because I've always wanted it and hate direct ascent missions.

[DGatsby]

Yes, it's been requested a lot so sure I'll make a big R this time. Might also make the little one man lander that was proposed for the gemin LOR mission, because I've always wanted it and hate direct ascent missions.

Yay! My favorite alt-history spacecraft!

[CatastrophicFailure]

Awesome. If I could make one odd request then, a "cutout" on the Big-R/service module for a docking port. I hate the idea of "hatches" in heat shields if it has to go on the back. Maybe could double as storage for that mini lander, if it's the one I'm thinking of.

[Orionkermin]

Awesome. If I could make one odd request then, a "cutout" on the Big-R/service module for a docking port. I hate the idea of "hatches" in heat shields if it has to go on the back. Maybe could double as storage for that mini lander, if it's the one I'm thinking of.

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. The way I see it for a big G type part the heatshield would be a seperate part. The way I'm envisioning it right now is that one end would be sized to the radish and the other to 1.875m so it would be an alternative adapter to the SM and would use a generic 1.875 heatshield if you want one.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Sorry, my own personal aesthetic neuroses there. The .625 docking port is "too small" for a Kerbal to fit thru. So a ship with that design would have to "back in" with a docking port behind the heat shield like the Soviet TKS. So Both that & the real Big G had hatches in their heat shields. That bugs me, even tho it's not modeled and completely irrelevant in game lol. But I was thinking a Big G type adapter would have gone to 2.5m. That would leave plenty of room on the "side" for a cut out or flat spot, like kind of a cargo bay. Room for a docking port, KAS container, maybe one of those inflatable wings if someone ever made one. See what I'm getting at?

[Whirligig Girl]

So on the subject of the radish:

A while back Gregrox Mun suggested increasing the base size to 1.875m. How does everyone feel about that sort of change? My only real concern at this point is that it may seem a little big compared to the soy-juice, especially since I want to make the soy-juice reentry module 1.875 in the future as well. Just curious on the comunity's thoughts.

Who's this Gregrox Mun guy? I kinda recognize the name, a bit too close to mine. I definitely agree with this Gregrox Mun person.

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Gemini capsule was around 3 meter diameter at the base, and the Soyuz re-entry module's diameter is no larger than 2.7 meters. So Gemini capsule really is bigger. So I don't think that's much of a problem.

And to CatastrophicFailure, the description for the 0.625m docking port actually says it's not for crew transfer. And the real Gemini's docking wasn't a crew-transfer docking.

Edited January 28, 2015 by GregroxMun

[Orionkermin]

Sorry, my own personal aesthetic neuroses there. The .625 docking port is "too small" for a Kerbal to fit thru. So a ship with that design would have to "back in" with a docking port behind the heat shield like the Soviet TKS. So Both that & the real Big G had hatches in their heat shields. That bugs me, even tho it's not modeled and completely irrelevant in game lol. But I was thinking a Big G type adapter would have gone to 2.5m. That would leave plenty of room on the "side" for a cut out or flat spot, like kind of a cargo bay. Room for a docking port, KAS container, maybe one of those inflatable wings if someone ever made one. See what I'm getting at?

Ah ok, that's what I thought you were talking about. Don't forget that not all of big G was the reentry module, the rear section was planned as a cargo space. Example It would be something like: Radish(current size)>Big R crew module(1.875 at the large end)>1.875-2.5 interstage

That would allow you to make a fair mock-up of big G in the 2.5m diameter and would even leave space for something like a docking port if you so choose.

Who's this Gregrox Mun guy? I kinda recognize the name, a bit too close to mine. I definitely agree with this Gregrox Mun person.

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Gemini capsule was around 3 meter diameter at the base, and the Soyuz re-entry module's diameter is no larger than 2.7 meters. So Gemini capsule really is bigger. So I don't think that's much of a problem.

And to CatastrophicFailure, the description for the 0.625m docking port actually says it's not for crew transfer. And the real Gemini's docking wasn't a crew-transfer docking.

Would you mind linking your source for the diameters of the spacecraft? From what I've found both have an approximate diameter of 2.2m for their reentry modules. And Gemini's instrument module is about 3m at it's max(Base) with the soyuz service module has a max diameter of 2.7m. I know that doesn't debunk your point, I'm just trying to find the right values.

That being said proportions are important to consider. If the radish has a 1.875m base then the service module has to go out to 2.5m, making it seem as wide as the Apollo analogue. (MK1-2) Compare the entirety of this spacecraft to that of the soyjuice and suddenly the Radish is looking huge, even if the widest point on Gemini was wider than Soyuz it isn't as big of a difference as I think that would make it seem.

It also could make the nose seem too tiny as well although not by a huge margin and its hard to say before its modeled.

Lastly it gives the impression that the Radish as a set of parts is actually intended to be a 2.5m spacecraft rather than a 1.875m one.

Don't get me wrong, I see reasons why making it a more standardized size would be appealing too. I'm just glad this is being discussed before I start working on it.

[wasmic]

Awesome. If I could make one odd request then, a "cutout" on the Big-R/service module for a docking port. I hate the idea of "hatches" in heat shields if it has to go on the back. Maybe could double as storage for that mini lander, if it's the one I'm thinking of.

You know, the Soviet VA capsule actually had a hatch in the heat shield. It made quite a few unmanned flights.

[bs1110101]

Yep, as did an unmanned Gemini as a test for the MOL.

[Whirligig Girl]

Ah ok, that's what I thought you were talking about. Don't forget that not all of big G was the reentry module, the rear section was planned as a cargo space. Example It would be something like: Radish(current size)>Big R crew module(1.875 at the large end)>1.875-2.5 interstage

That would allow you to make a fair mock-up of big G in the 2.5m diameter and would even leave space for something like a docking port if you so choose.

Would you mind linking your source for the diameters of the spacecraft? From what I've found both have an approximate diameter of 2.2m for their reentry modules. And Gemini's instrument module is about 3m at it's max(Base) with the soyuz service module has a max diameter of 2.7m. I know that doesn't debunk your point, I'm just trying to find the right values.

That being said proportions are important to consider. If the radish has a 1.875m base then the service module has to go out to 2.5m, making it seem as wide as the Apollo analogue. (MK1-2) Compare the entirety of this spacecraft to that of the soyjuice and suddenly the Radish is looking huge, even if the widest point on Gemini was wider than Soyuz it isn't as big of a difference as I think that would make it seem.

It also could make the nose seem too tiny as well although not by a huge margin and its hard to say before its modeled.

Lastly it gives the impression that the Radish as a set of parts is actually intended to be a 2.5m spacecraft rather than a 1.875m one.

Don't get me wrong, I see reasons why making it a more standardized size would be appealing too. I'm just glad this is being discussed before I start working on it.

My source is THIS Although after a closer look the part where the capsule connects to the service module seems to be 2.28 meters after all. And THIS Which says the total of the Soyuz is 2.72 meters. So the soyuz seems to be just a bit bigger. Still, I think standardization here makes more sense.

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That being said proportions are important to consider. If the radish has a 1.875m base then the service module has to go out to 2.5m, making it seem as wide as the Apollo analogue. (MK1-2) Compare the entirety of this spacecraft to that of the soyjuice and suddenly the Radish is looking huge, even if the widest point on Gemini was wider than Soyuz it isn't as big of a difference as I think that would make it seem.

I believe the FASA mod actually has the same diameter for the Service module of the Apollo CSM and the base of the Gemini Service Module. Not saying that that's accurate (Cause I'm not sure if it is or not), I'm saying that it's not so bad.

I'm starting to think that maybe a separate size would be needed for the Radish after all. But you can't have only one part that is Radish sized. You need to have rocket parts for that diameter too or it's incomplete, and then you have a 1.5625 meter rocket size that's hard to justify the existence of.

Probably easier to make the capsule a 1.875m capsule but make no service module, so people can do whatever they want, be it a 2.5m rocket or a 1.875m rocket. Just like the Mk1 pod.

[wasmic]

Another option for the Radish: make it somewhere between 1.25 and 1.875. An adapter (or fairings like the really old versions of the radish) could be used to go fromradish to 1.25m or 1.875m. There would also be a service module part included, which could go to 1.875 or 2.5 meters.

[Orionkermin]

My source is THIS Although after a closer look the part where the capsule connects to the service module seems to be 2.28 meters after all. And THIS Which says the total of the Soyuz is 2.72 meters. So the soyuz seems to be just a bit bigger. Still, I think standardization here makes more sense.

I don't disagree with you here, but it isn't the only thing to consider.

I believe the FASA mod actually has the same diameter for the Service module of the Apollo CSM and the base of the Gemini Service Module. Not saying that that's accurate (Cause I'm not sure if it is or not), I'm saying that it's not so bad.

This works for FASA, because it is aiming to fit the stock part sizes. For a mod like HGR wich is trying to introduce an all new diameter, it feels weird that the first craft* would be essentially 2.5m.

*craft as in the way the soyjuice lets you build something "like" a real life counterpart, but can be used however you want.

I'm starting to think that maybe a separate size would be needed for the Radish after all. But you can't have only one part that is Radish sized. You need to have rocket parts for that diameter too or it's incomplete, and then you have a 1.5625 meter rocket size that's hard to justify the existence of.

Probably easier to make the capsule a 1.875m capsule but make no service module, so people can do whatever they want, be it a 2.5m rocket or a 1.875m rocket. Just like the Mk1 pod.

I don't see why an adapter like the current one couldn't be used. That doesn't make the pod feel like it needs a whole new set of sized parts. To me it's more like the pod is a stopgap between two sizes and the adapter could be considered a part of the pod itself. People can already do what they want with the current Radish, I frequently use it with both 1.25 and 1.875 parts in the early career.

Another option for the Radish: make it somewhere between 1.25 and 1.875. An adapter (or fairings like the really old versions of the radish) could be used to go fromradish to 1.25m or 1.875m. There would also be a service module part included, which could go to 1.875 or 2.5 meters.

I would definitely include an adapter similar to the current one, auto shrouds don't play well with FAR and reentry and don't take up any less memory anyway. It could even be designed to be flipped over and used to taper the SM down to 1.25 this time. Two sizes of SM is an interesting idea and might be possible, but I'd only pull the trigger on the larger size if It could be mapped to the same texture space as the "standard" one, because I don't want to do the texture work for two service modules and it would take up more memory. I'm mostly sure I could do it, but don't want to promise anything this early.

Thanks for all the input so far everyone, I appreciate the brainstorming.