[0.23] DC Aerospace v1.0.5 (RERELEASED- MOVED TO NEW THREAD)

[EsvDefcon]

Pretty much looks like a cheat part, like it was before on the other thread. 5000 thrust? Hyperium? Um yeah, seems like a cheat part. Even though the model looks great, gratz on that.

Ok, I've reduced the thrust loads, increased the mass, and added a fuel draw gauge- shouldn't bee too OP now, but please bear in mind that it's supposed to be a powerful engine nonetheless

[Andrezado]

Well, even though you reduced the load, don't you have a fuelgenerator on the pack? That's the op part, I'm not really bothered by the engine too much, but by the fuelgen

[metalmouth7]

Well, even though you reduced the load, don't you have a fuelgenerator on the pack? That's the op part, I'm not really bothered by the engine too much, but by the fuelgen

Those parts are placeholders for the time being, and won't be staying too long. The actual plan is to make a more robust resource-based system that will still allow stations and extraplanetary bases to be more self-sufficient. I'll have an actual update based on that posted shortly, so you can see what we're actually planning in that regard.

[Andrezado]

So something in the lines of ... mining? Because i don't see how fuel generators will be balanced without something bad going for them.. like massive weight or something that doesn't make them unlimited.

[EsvDefcon]

So something in the lines of ... mining? Because i don't see how fuel generators will be balanced without something bad going for them.. like massive weight or something that doesn't make them unlimited.

Honestly, our system is going to combine elements of real-life fuel production, while making it so that you have to thoroughly process resources to produce fuel- in short, it's going to take much longer to generate fuel, meaning that generators will mainly be useful for refilling orbital fuel depots and the like, and although it will allow for infinite exploration, it will be much more balanced

[metalmouth7]

So something in the lines of ... mining? Because i don't see how fuel generators will be balanced without something bad going for them.. like massive weight or something that doesn't make them unlimited.

We're currently looking at the idea of *realistic* biofuel. You'll have to deal with things such as a separate atmospheres for your plants to help keep them alive, along with dealing with the massive power draw such an additional system will create. All that on top of the sunlight requirements of the plants.

Even after all that, you'll then need to send up the necessary equipment to process the plant matter into a usable Hyperium fuel, that itself requiring a large amount of energy to heat and cool the Hyperium, before finally being able to use it to power your spacecraft.

As well, other byproducts of the plants can be used to produce regular Liquid Fuel, or even Oxidizer and Mono-Propellant, those requiring different storage and utilization systems on your ship/station/colony.

We're aiming to balance it so that you *can* become fully self sufficient and environmentally friendly, but that it'll take a lot of work to get there.

[Andrezado]

So. The answer to my question was; power, you'll need lots and lots of power and sunlight. Wich doesn't seem quite balanced, seems like an ion thruster but with infinite fuel.

[metalmouth7]

So. The answer to my question was; power, you'll need lots and lots of power and sunlight. Wich doesn't seem quite balanced, seems like an ion thruster but with infinite fuel.

Do you have any suggestions to make it more balanced?

We're very open to suggestions from the community at this point, and any ideas that get shared here would be much appreciated.

[jacobgong]

Do you have any suggestions to make it more balanced?

We're very open to suggestions from the community at this point, and any ideas that get shared here would be much appreciated.

Yes, there is no such thing as realistic self-sufficient space craft.

[EsvDefcon]

Yes, there is no such thing as realistic self-sufficient space craft.

So, that would mean that there's no such thing as a self-sufficient fuel? Such as ethanol... which there is...

[metalmouth7]

Yes, there is no such thing as realistic self-sufficient space craft.

And I'd agree with you. However, since I was talking about fuel sources and not the entire spacecraft, it's a somewhat different topic. As somebody who has made biodiesel from Canola, I can assure you that it's quite possible to be self sufficient when it comes to fuel.

[Andrezado]

Yes but it's ethanol, it's a fuel for cars, i'm pretty sure it can't be used as rocket fuel, at least not efficiently, also it by itself is not close to efficient, also, gotta agree with jacob, there isn't a self sufficient fuel so far, the closest we have ever gotten so far to it (on rocketry) is Ion Engines. Suggestion would be to make the fuel not unlimited, but just make it last for a long time.

[amo28]

Both ethanol and alcohol can be used as rocket fuel when combined with LOX. Wiki it. It's been used.

@jacobgong & Andrezado: Either contribute to the development of the mod, or head on back to the Minecraft forums. Do yourselves a favor and read back through all of the posts in this thread -- recognize how patient and polite these mod authors have been, and do your best to re-read your own comments as any other adult would -- you might learn something about your communication skills for the future.

[Andrezado]

The hell amo? I'm not raging on them or anything, also what do you mean by "go back to the minecraft forums"? I'm just saying that some of their ideas don't seem too good, that's all. And when they had another thread, everybody hated them, I didn't. I purely said that he was reusing a fuel tank engine and retexturing it (Squad).

Also i did read all the posts... i'm not the kind that skips every post. God damn you're annoying.

[metalmouth7]

Yes but it's ethanol, it's a fuel for cars, i'm pretty sure it can't be used as rocket fuel, at least not efficiently, also it by itself is not close to efficient, also, gotta agree with jacob, there isn't a self sufficient fuel so far, the closest we have ever gotten so far to it (on rocketry) is Ion Engines. Suggestion would be to make the fuel not unlimited, but just make it last for a long time.

You may want to research the WWII V2 project - it was run on a crude potato-derived alcohol.

As well, you don't appear to understand what self-sufficient means. Ion-electric engines aren't self-sufficient at all. Our parts will allow you to convert time, Kerbal effort, and electricity into a small quantity of fuel. It's not going to be enough for you to replenish your fuel as you burn it (unless you build a truly MASSIVE spacecraft.) It's enough to allow you to supplement an expedition to another world, and allow them to develop their own infrastructure. Over time, with the right modules, they'll be able to become self-sufficient.

[Starwaster]

The hell amo? I'm not raging on them or anything, also what do you mean by "go back to the minecraft forums"? I'm just saying that some of their ideas don't seem too good, that's all. And when they had another thread, everybody hated them, I didn't. I purely said that he was reusing a fuel tank engine and retexturing it (Squad).

Also i did read all the posts... i'm not the kind that skips every post. God damn you're annoying.

Then don't use the damned mod. You're just coming in here poisoning the atmosphere with your negative behavior. Nobody really wants you here if you don't have something constructive to say. Don't like it? DON'T USE IT.

Stop being a damned troll. That goes for you too jacobgong.

Go bother Robert Zubrin and tell him that his plans to make methane fuel for returning astronauts out of the Martian environment are 'overpowered' and 'unbalanced'

[metalmouth7]

AND NOW FOR A SPECIAL MIDNIGHT OIL EDITION!

I've been working on a couple more parts for the resource system, and figured that I'd post a quick preview of what I've managed to finish tonight

Please keep in mind that this render is not done in Unity, but in Blender, and is provided (and was made,) for entertainment purposes (I like making renders of my work.) This part might not end up in game as you see it now.

When you're producing Hyperium fuel, you'll first need to process it from plants in solid form. Depending on your power capabilities and onboard equipment, solid Hyperium may need to be stored for a while. These handy, 2.75 meter storage containers will be able to do just that, allowing you to handle more of the volatile substance easily and safely.

Any thoughts or opinions on the design/texture? Depending on a few things, I may make a smaller version of this part, so that you can transport Solid Hyperium in smaller, more practical quantities, as well as potentially a larger version.

[NathanKell]

Neat looking stuff!

Just as a general point, what makes rocket propellant production different from, say, car fuel production, is that you're not bringing a planet with you. The mass has to come from somewhere. You can make a given piece of matter provide *tons and tons* of thrust per pound (like, say, using electricity to accelerate xenon to insane velocities), but that xenon gotta come from somewhere. And unless you want to start producing matter itself from energy...gotta carry that matter with you.

If I've misunderstood and these fuel generators only work on planets, then sure, that makes sense, and yay for ISRU. But if you're talking about generating fuel on a space ship, from nothingness, then the law of conservation of mass can haz speaks with you.

That said, please don't take this as discouragement; I'm not trying to put down the cool work you two are doing, just adding a dash of SCIENCE! to it.

[metalmouth7]

Neat looking stuff!

Just as a general point, what makes rocket propellant production different from, say, car fuel production, is that you're not bringing a planet with you. The mass has to come from somewhere. You can make a given piece of matter provide *tons and tons* of thrust per pound (like, say, using electricity to accelerate xenon to insane velocities), but that xenon gotta come from somewhere. And unless you want to start producing matter itself from energy...gotta carry that matter with you.

If I've misunderstood and these fuel generators only work on planets, then sure, that makes sense, and yay for ISRU. But if you're talking about generating fuel on a space ship, from nothingness, then the law of conservation of mass can haz speaks with you.

That said, please don't take this as discouragement; I'm not trying to put down the cool work you two are doing, just adding a dash of SCIENCE! to it.

In this case, it's a little bit of both. We're.... bringing the planet with us, so to speak. The plan is to create biofuels in space, utilizing crops rich in certain compounds, and reacting it in unique ways to create fuel. It's going to be a rather inefficient process, and be much more profitable to use it as a way of generating fuel on other planets surfaces, or as systems on crewed refueling stations. As well, I'm looking at ways of realistically handling supply requirements. If anybody has any ideas, feel free to share them.

It's a tad unrealistic, but it's not too far out there at this point in time.

Edited February 2, 2014 by metalmouth7

[Deathsoul097]

See, you thrown together a piece of crap in less than an hour and already can't wait to put it up on the forums. That's your problem right there.

Whether or not I have a better mod really has nothing to do with my criticisms here. If you don't agree with them then point out where exactly I am wrong, instead of asking for something irrelevant.

Besides, I do have a better mod than yours. It's just not that great for me to have an ego as large as yours.

You sir, are an Ass. LEAVE. Are you getting the message? No-one else agrees with you. NathanKell, a modder who is making the game as realistic as possible, has expressed his support and help for this. I have reported you to the moderators for a second time today for harassing these guys, who are going out of their way to make something for other people. They have no obligation whatsoever to do anything, and yet they soldier on while you just keep harassing them. All they have been is patient and polite, compared to you, who has only been brash and rude. Also, could we have some proof of your "better" mod? You have no right to bash others, no matter what, but can we at least see what you seem to be so snooty and pretentious about? And I don't know where you're getting all of this "ego' crap from. If you're referring to the way that the OP is set up, many modders do it like that. Write it like an advert. It gets you interested, it makes you want to keep reading, to find out more. Also, he admits that he set up the model as a placeholder in less than an hour, and you then proceed to call said placeholder (And I quote): "A piece of crap." Also, whipping something up in less than an hour as a placeholder is something many modders, including myself, do. It is a way to get the ball rolling, a start, even if you don't have everything completely figured out, it gets you moving.

(Also, this is not the place to come in yelling about stuff being unrealistic. A game, with little green men, on a planet 10 times smaller than earth with the same gravity, within 1 AU of their parent star, who speak backwards Spanish, in a universe with no N-Body physics, or even a proper atmosphere. KSP is realistic in a sense that it gets most of the physics right, but everything else? Not so much. Also, if you care about realism so much, stop using "kathane", or the stock NTR, or the stock EVA pack, or the stock pods, or the stock docking ports, or the stock parachutes, or the stock EVA suit, or (Most) of the stock science parts, or even the VAB and SPH. Because magically assembling a rocket weighing hundreds of tonnes while it floats in mid-air on its own.)

On a nicer note: This is looking really good. I really look forward to seeing what you do with this. You might even become a competitor with "Kathane" if you play your cards right.

[EsvDefcon]

You sir, are an Ass. LEAVE. Are you getting the message? No-one else agrees with you. NathanKell, a modder who is making the game as realistic as possible, has expressed his support and help for this. I have reported you to the moderators for a second time today for harassing these guys, who are going out of their way to make something for other people. They have no obligation whatsoever to do anything, and yet they soldier on while you just keep harassing them. All they have been is patient and polite, compared to you, who has only been brash and rude. Also, could we have some proof of your "better" mod? You have no right to bash others, no matter what, but can we at least see what you seem to be so snooty and pretentious about? And I don't know where you're getting all of this "ego' crap from. If you're referring to the way that the OP is set up, many modders do it like that. Write it like an advert. It gets you interested, it makes you want to keep reading, to find out more. Also, he admits that he set up the model as a placeholder in less than an hour, and you then proceed to call said placeholder (And I quote): "A piece of crap." Also, whipping something up in less than an hour as a placeholder is something many modders, including myself, do. It is a way to get the ball rolling, a start, even if you don't have everything completely figured out, it gets you moving.

(Also, this is not the place to come in yelling about stuff being unrealistic. A game, with little green men, on a planet 10 times smaller than earth with the same gravity, within 1 AU of their parent star, who speak backwards Spanish, in a universe with no N-Body physics, or even a proper atmosphere. KSP is realistic in a sense that it gets most of the physics right, but everything else? Not so much. Also, if you care about realism so much, stop using "kathane", or the stock NTR, or the stock EVA pack, or the stock pods, or the stock docking ports, or the stock parachutes, or the stock EVA suit, or (Most) of the stock science parts, or even the VAB and SPH. Because magically assembling a rocket weighing hundreds of tonnes while it floats in mid-air on its own.)

On a nicer note: This is looking really good. I really look forward to seeing what you do with this. You might even become a competitor with "Kathane" if you play your cards right.

Thanks a lot for the support, and it really means a lot to hear some positive feedback! As said, this may not be the most realistic concept ever, but hopefully we're close enough to the point where it's believable, but not so realistic that it's not fun to play with in KSP. And because of all of your kind support, I'm sure that we'll manage to put out some great new parts (and I've started to make some 3D models as well, to speed up the development process)

[Deathsoul097]

Awesome! I hope to see them in an upcoming release, I'm sure they will be great. Plus, it is realistic-ish. ISRU, in space sounds like an interesting idea to me. (And personally, I think kethane needs some competition. ) I personally like kethane a lot, but I find it no more realistic than this, as you can extract a seemingly magical chemical out of the ground that can somehow be converted into Liquid fuel, Oxidizer, Monopropellant and Xenon gas. If you want I could throw in some models for you, depending on what you need. (I can't texture for **** though, but I am working on changing that.)

[EsvDefcon]

Awesome! I hope to see them in an upcoming release, I'm sure they will be great. Plus, it is realistic-ish. ISRU, in space sounds like an interesting idea to me. (And personally, I think kethane needs some competition. ) I personally like kethane a lot, but I find it no more realistic than this, as you can extract a seemingly magical chemical out of the ground that can somehow be converted into Liquid fuel, Oxidizer, Monopropellant and Xenon gas. If you want I could throw in some models for you, depending on what you need. (I can't texture for **** though, but I am working on changing that.)

Well, if you'd be interested in helping out with the mod, then we'd love to have you on board! We've just been going over some great new ideas for the mod, so we'd be really grateful to have some help I'll send you a PM with some details

[EsvDefcon]

An update will be coming out tonight! I have just finished a satellite core, which will be the first in an entire series of models of probes. They will allow you to create satellites/probes which are fully-equipped for whatever role you require them to be, and will be the next step in Defcon Corporation Orbital Tech!

[Motokid600]

This could be very useful with RSS in the future. I look forward to this good job.