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[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

helldiver

By helldiver
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Deathsoul097

Deathsoul097

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But there is an option that says: Spaceplane Guidance.

Space plane guidance is there, and it has a landing function, but MJ can't handle spaceplanes. Simple as that really. The spaceplane guidance can keep a plane in the air, but you've got NO chance, whatsoever, of making it down in one piece using the spaceplane guidance function.

I will amend my original statement to this: It can land them, if you count landing as hitting the ground at very significant speeds, and having the plane be utterly destroyed.

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hieywiey

hieywiey

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Space plane guidance is there, and it has a landing function, but MJ can't handle spaceplanes. Simple as that really. The spaceplane guidance can keep a plane in the air, but you've got NO chance, whatsoever, of making it down in one piece using the spaceplane guidance function.

I will amend my original statement to this: It can land them, if you count landing as hitting the ground at very significant speeds, and having the plane be utterly destroyed.

But didn't Helldiver say something about MJ support coming later?

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Westi29

Westi29

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The Twenty-First of my STS KSO Shuttle Missions and Seventeenth Flight of the Tenacious! STS 121's objective's are to dock with the returning Duna Discovery Vessel, which is returning from Duna, and return to the KSC Runway to complete the manned Duna mission series!

Most of the footage is shown in 8x speed for quick viewing, while some is at 20x.
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Starwaster

Starwaster

Posted
Posted (edited)
Space plane guidance is there, and it has a landing function, but MJ can't handle spaceplanes. Simple as that really. The spaceplane guidance can keep a plane in the air, but you've got NO chance, whatsoever, of making it down in one piece using the spaceplane guidance function.

I will amend my original statement to this: It can land them, if you count landing as hitting the ground at very significant speeds, and having the plane be utterly destroyed.

How about only partially destroyed? Granted, it was the cockpit, so sadly the crew all perished but you can see from the design that it's a difficult plane to put down. Because of its long neck it tends to pitch down during braking, which is what happened here. I'm still working out optimal landing and braking procedures but the point is that MJ put this plane down. It doesn't handle throttling or braking; that's the operator's responsibility. I have landed this plane successfully using the spaceplane guidance and am confident that once I work out the flaws in the design that it will be much better in the future.

Edit: @hieywiey: You'll have to step in at the end to handle braking, but it's totally doable.

sUuRWZdl.png

Edited by Starwaster
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Deltac

Deltac

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MJ support probably (and hopefully) means getting MJ to pitch the KSO properly so that node burns with MJ will go much smoother. Course I could be wrong, and will just have to deal with this.

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Nibb31

Nibb31

Posted
Posted (edited)
Space plane guidance is there, and it has a landing function, but MJ can't handle spaceplanes. Simple as that really. The spaceplane guidance can keep a plane in the air, but you've got NO chance, whatsoever, of making it down in one piece using the spaceplane guidance function.

I will amend my original statement to this: It can land them, if you count landing as hitting the ground at very significant speeds, and having the plane be utterly destroyed.

I actually managed a couple of decent landings with MechJeb and practically no manual input. This is how I did it:

- From a 100km orbit, set a Target Coordinates to 80°W and 0°N (This is the mountain range west of KSC, not KSC itself) and click Land at Target.

- Let the Landing Guidance computer do the deorbit burn and course correction, and then click Abort Autoland when the Target difference gets <1km.

- Dump all your fuel (you need some sort of fuel dump valve like these).

- Set Smart ASS to SURF with HDG:90, PIT:10, ROL:0 and let her reenter.

- When you get below 500m/s, switch to Spaceplane Guidance mode. Switch on Show landing navball guidance and click Autoland.

- During the approach, use the Surface Info panel to watch you true Altitude (above ground level). If you feel you're not going to make it to the runway, lower the flaps and wait until the last minute to lower the landing gear. If you feel you're going to overshoot, open the airbrake and lower the landing gear early.

This might not land you exactly on the runway (it only worked once for me), but it should at least land you safely near KSC.

Edited by Nibb31
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AntiMatter001

AntiMatter001

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I actually managed a couple of decent landings with MechJeb and practically no manual input. This is how I did it:

- From a 100km orbit, set a Target Coordinates to 80°W and 0°N (This is the mountain range west of KSC, not KSC itself) and click Land at Target.

- Let the Landing Guidance computer do the deorbit burn and course correction, and then click Abort Autoland when the Target difference gets <1km.

- Dump all your fuel (you need some sort of fuel dump valve like these).

- Set Smart ASS to SURF with HDG:90, PIT:10, ROL:0 and let her reenter.

- When you get below 500m/s, switch to Spaceplane Guidance mode. Switch on Show landing navball guidance and click Autoland.

- During the approach, use the Surface Info panel to watch you true Altitude (above ground level). If you feel you're not going to make it to the runway, lower the flaps and wait until the last minute to lower the landing gear. If you feel you're going to overshoot, open the airbrake and lower the landing gear early.

This might not land you exactly on the runway (it only worked once for me), but it should at least land you safely near KSC.

that what i do... sure i may need to poke the nose up a tad but honestly if you let mechjeb do all the fun stuff why play KSP at all?

oh also nice signature

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hieywiey

hieywiey

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How about only partially destroyed? Granted, it was the cockpit, so sadly the crew all perished but you can see from the design that it's a difficult plane to put down. Because of its long neck it tends to pitch down during braking, which is what happened here. I'm still working out optimal landing and braking procedures but the point is that MJ put this plane down. It doesn't handle throttling or braking; that's the operator's responsibility. I have landed this plane successfully using the spaceplane guidance and am confident that once I work out the flaws in the design that it will be much better in the future.

Edit: @hieywiey: You'll have to step in at the end to handle braking, but it's totally doable.

http://i.imgur.com/sUuRWZdl.png

Thanks Starwaster and Deathsoul :) I owe you both one

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TJBombard

TJBombard

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I'm having difficulties with the SAS either shaking the KSO to pieces or getting itself in a hypersonic spin.

If you are using MechJeb once you reenter the atmosphere, or when you see it start to shutter, use attitude adjustment and click "use stock SAS" and it levels out

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hieywiey

hieywiey

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If you are using MechJeb once you reenter the atmosphere, or when you see it start to shutter, use attitude adjustment and click "use stock SAS" and it levels out

No, I was using the stock SAS and I didn't have MJ installed because I was doing atmospheric testing for landing with a payload, I also tried without the payload but I still got into a hypersonic spin and lost Jeb,Bill and Bob along with 3 other Kerbals :(

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paramedicdoc

paramedicdoc

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For those of you having problems please attempt the following...

Wait until u are above the ridge of mountains bordering the desert on the continent to the east of ksc. Orbit at 72km.

Burn retro until ur trajectory is just below the large island to the far west of ksc.

Point urself pro and start out about 20 degrees under the horizon...as u travel this angle will change and u will be about 20 degrees above by the time flames appear.

Generally below 68km keep SAS engaged at all times.

Never pitch the nose up or down at an angle greater than about 30 degrees until u are below 10km and 500 m/s or there abouts.

Generally the orbiter will respond well tomaneuvers if given the littlest bit of thrust.

If done properly gear should be dropped

Only at the last minute and if done right you shouldnt even have to use the airbrake. Interstingly I have never had the need to dump fuel. My method always puts me on the runway even with half a tank

You must remember that this is not an airplane. You are in a controlled fall. It is helpful to switch to map mode to verify the parapola of your descent.

I strongly recommend stacked launch configuration. This allows you the ability to add a propulsion module to the orbiter which increases range and gives u extra fuel for descent.

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Starwaster

Starwaster

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I'm having difficulties with the SAS either shaking the KSO to pieces or getting itself in a hypersonic spin.

Do you have FAR installed? I just put FAR in my installation (or back in as the case may be) and that's about the only time I notice SAS 'shaking' problems.

Also I notice the spaceplane guidance does have issues that I don't see with stock aerodynamics so I wonder if Deathsoul's spaceplane guidance issues were also experienced with FAR...?

(problems of the 'have to keep pulling the nose up because MJ doesn't realize that it's pitching down too steeply)

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hieywiey

hieywiey

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I had converted the KSO into an Enterprise-glider testing state with a aft cover that I'd made in Cinema 4D and put in Unity (No, I won't distribute it). I also tested it without the aft cover coming down from space and this time the KSO was WITHOUT MECHJEB and it still killed 6 more Kerbals after I got into a hypersonic spin. And no I don't have FAR installed.

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Deathsoul097

Deathsoul097

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Nope. I don't use FAR. When I was having issues with MJ's Spaceplane guidance, I tried it with several of my own designs, and with all of the stock planes. None of them even made it to the runway. I flew them manually around to the back of the KSC, then activated MJ, turned on spaceplane guidance, and every single on crashed. Many a Kerbal died that day. I was about 1Km up, and about 5Km from the runway. I like MJ, but it's spaceplane guidance sucks in my experience. Also, yeah, that's exactly what was happening. It just kept pitching down, and tried to pull up from a 30 degree dive at over 100m/s about 10m from the ground. That was the most common one. I haven't used it since.

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paramedicdoc

paramedicdoc

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The orbiter is not a spaceplane. Well it kind of is but you can't think of it as such. It does not have the same aerodynamic qualities as one and mechjeb gets confused. It is far easier to land the orbiter manually. You just need to understand the procedure.

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