[1.0.5] Advanced Jet Engine v2.6.1 - Feb 1

[NathanKell]

As you're finding out, when you play with realistic stuff, KSP is absurdly easy. (It's absurdly easy if you don't, too--mass ratios and TWRs aren't *that* nerfed in stock KSP). But yes, if you have an engine with a realistic TWR, and tanks with a realistic dry:wet ratio, then it doesn't take much to get into orbit. About 2x the delta V of getting into lunar orbit (less, with FAR) and since orbital velocity is really only a tiny (few hundred m/s) more than maximum attainable air-breathing velocity, it makes spaceplanes especially absurdly easy compared to real life.

[TeeGee]

As you're finding out, when you play with realistic stuff, KSP is absurdly easy. (It's absurdly easy if you don't, too--mass ratios and TWRs aren't *that* nerfed in stock KSP). But yes, if you have an engine with a realistic TWR, and tanks with a realistic dry:wet ratio, then it doesn't take much to get into orbit. About 2x the delta V of getting into lunar orbit (less, with FAR) and since orbital velocity is really only a tiny (few hundred m/s) more than maximum attainable air-breathing velocity, it makes spaceplanes especially absurdly easy compared to real life.

Right but the delta v required to reach orbit in RSS is MUCH higher.

Kerbal with the mods I have installed tries to balance realistic aerodynamics, engine stats, fuels and other things into a game that has much smaller planet.

I want more of a realistic challenge.

I can no longer put a single seat control chair on a single tank of fuel attached to a LV-N and reach duna in 1 go. Even if I have enough delta V. I have to worry about food, water, air, co2, reentry heat, aerobraking in aerodynamic craft etc.

In my stock KSP, even though I love it sooo much, I found the game started taking me in a far more unrealistic avenue such as using turbojets as payload lifters into orbit and spaceplanes that could carry 9 kerbals into space using the most unaerodynamic plane in the world. I have a problem when games become too gamey and sacrifice realism for fun. To me, realism = fun.

That's why I keep modding my games after I've gone "too far" in vanilla KSP. As soon as I used FAR, I needed to use an engine nerfing mod because getting into space become ridiculously easy due to kerbins small size. The I started using life support and engine ignitors etc. all because I wanted to be IMMERSED in the game. Realism to me = immersion.

The more I played the game according to the rules I dictated, the more fun I had. The ONLY problem I had with the game, until this mod came out, was the airbreathing engines. Now that has been fixed and my game is almost perfect. The only issues I have is nerfing the rapier to using liquid H2/liquid O2 ONLY AND to add atmosphere sound enhancement properties to rapier and the new NASA engines.

RSS is a mod I've used before and I found it to be too buggy and stretches the fantasy of kerbinland to the breaking point. Why is Kerbin the size of the Earth? Why does it have to be exactly like human rocket engines etc. I bought this game to be immersed in Kerbal space exploration, not humans posing as kerbals pretending to not be earth aerospace engineering.

Remember I want to be immersed in KERBAL space program, not NASA disguised as Kerbal space program.

[NathanKell]

Still don't see how it counts as "nerfing" when you're upping the specific impulse by 35% though. Hydrolox is *higher* performance than kerolox.

Also, you might be interested in this, somewhere around the goldilocks point you're looking for.

[TeeGee]

Still don't see how it counts as "nerfing" when you're upping the specific impulse by 35% though. Hydrolox is *higher* performance than kerolox.

Also, you might be interested in this, somewhere around the goldilocks point you're looking for.

WOW! Where did THIS mod come from??

Good call my friend! I will be keeping an eye on this!

Yeah I know that Kerolox is lower specific impulse fuel BUT as a thrust per fuel VOLUME it is better than Hydrolox. Hydrolox requires MUCH larger tanks due to its lower density than kerosene, so that means we need huge tanks to get the full benefit of the higher isp.

When I first installed real fuels and used stockalike config, I created a rocket using hydrolox because I saw the HUGE isp boost it gave over kerosene based fuels. SO I launched it and couldn't even make it to orbit apoapsis. So I kept increasing the tank size over and over again until I finally reached orbit. The tanks was HUGE! Then I tried using kerosene based fuels, my rockets were SOOOOO much smaller and I could reach orbit much easier.

Funny how NASA uses LOX and Russia uses KOX and I prefer the KOX fuels due to the advantage of having smaller rockets with higher delta v. Now I understand why the orange tank on the shuttle was sooo massive..

[camlost]

@Spooks, stop working means what?

@TeeGEE, the RAPIER's Isp and thrust was not touched by AJE, it's the stock values. And it's probably not overpowered for Kerolox. AJE actually makes the air-breathing stage much harder, since you only got to M1.5, which is not impressive TBH. Aim for M3.5 or more.

If you use RSS the best choice is SABRE M. SABRE S and RAPIER's TWR in rocket mode is too low I think.

[MAKC]

In your quick guide to the AJE Test you mention adjusting "efficiency coefficients" to match dry thrust/SFC. Which ones are they? I've been fiddling with it trying to make an engine match but whenever I get the dry thrust, dry SFC and wet thrust right, the wet SFC is too low. It's really frustrating.

[camlost]

eta7 mostly

[Spooks]

@Spooks, stop working means what?

@TeeGEE, the RAPIER's Isp and thrust was not touched by AJE, it's the stock values. And it's probably not overpowered for Kerolox. AJE actually makes the air-breathing stage much harder, since you only got to M1.5, which is not impressive TBH. Aim for M3.5 or more.

If you use RSS the best choice is SABRE M. SABRE S and RAPIER's TWR in rocket mode is too low I think.

sorry my engine's stop working the trottle is going up but the dont give power reinstall best option ?

i test tings and reinstal new ksp and only far,aje,RF and i have probleam with air intakes so me engine's ar not working

Edited June 3, 2014 by Spooks

[Taverius]

Hmmm. I made my first ssto with this new update, but it seems too easy still. I get up to Mach 1.5, switch to rockets and burn all the way up to 80 km apoapsis. Is the ISP correct with kerosene/liquid oxygen fuel? It seems too good for me... or maybe remove the kerosene/iquid oxygen fuel altogether and force players to use liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen instead. The SABRE engines use the latter fuel and we know the ISP of those engines. That way we as players are forced to build larger craft to account for the lower density liquid hydrogen requiring higher volume tanks.

I'm not sure what the top speed/altitude is with AJE's RAPIER/SABRE - I'm too busy getting the next B9 ready to play - but according to the design spec of the real-world SABRE - which the B9 SABRE engines I made and the squad RAPIER are obviously based on - switchover to closed-cycle should occur @ Mach 5.61.

The switchover altitude is somewhat unclear (or was last time I checked their whitepaper PDFs) but their flight path goes up to about 28k, then does a quick dip down to 26k before zoom-climbing to space. I've always assumed they switch over at the end of the dip, myself.

Of course nobody knows if they'll actually do that when/if they actually/ever get built, but that's another issue entirely.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Taverius

[TeeGee]

I'm not sure what the top speed/altitude is with AJE's RAPIER/SABRE - I'm too busy getting the next B9 ready to play - but according to the design spec of the real-world SABRE - which the B9 SABRE engines I made and the squad RAPIER are obviously based on - switchover to closed-cycle should occur @ Mach 5.61.

The switchover altitude is somewhat unclear (or was last time I checked their whitepaper PDFs) but their flight path goes up to about 28k, then does a quick dip down to 26k before zoom-climbing to space. I've always assumed they switch over at the end of the dip, myself.

Of course nobody knows if they'll actually do that when/if they actually/ever get built, but that's another issue entirely.

Yeah I get to Mach 1.5 on a single engine on my planes before I switch to closed cycle. Maybe I should try using 2 rapiers and see what happens. Just out of curiosity what is the max thrust and ceiling height of these engines?

[TeeGee]

sorry my engine's stop working the trottle is going up but the dont give power reinstall best option ?

i test tings and reinstal new ksp and only far,aje,RF and i have probleam with air intakes so me engine's ar not working

Yeah I noticed the same thing but how I corrected it was to use circular intakes for the jet engine and the ram or airscoops for the turbojet. That fixed it for me.

[Dr. Death]

is it just me? or the game is stuck when loading the RAPIER engines? is it because of 23.5 compatibility?

[Spooks]

is it just me? or the game is stuck when loading the RAPIER engines? is it because of 23.5 compatibility?

install HotRockets and its fix if you don't want to use HotRockets see OP

[Dr. Death]

install HotRockets and its fix if you don't want to use HotRockets see OP

i already have hotrockets installed

[NathanKell]

camlost, you might want to use my textures as well for those engines. You can do

!mesh

and then insert the whole MODEL node from the engine definition (changing the texture path to wherever you want to stick the textures). B9 is SA so that's fine, as long as attribution is to B9 for the original textures and me for the hackjob repaints.

All here:

https://github.com/NathanKell/ReachingfortheStars/tree/master/RftS/Parts/Jets

And once you do that, then I no longer have to ship anything but the VULCAN with RftS.

Also, wingnuts of the non-political kind might appreciate my newly remade F-100C Super Sabre / Hun. Now with actual more-or-less trapezoidal fuselage!

[cvod]

Sorry if this has been answered, but to install this without real fuels do I just need to find/replace "LiquidOxygen" with "Oxidizer" and "LiquidH2" with "LiquidFuel"? I'm also not sure if I need to do anything with Kerosene.

[NathanKell]

Replace Kerosene with LiquidFuel.

[Bloodbunny]

camlost, you might want to use my textures as well for those engines. You can do

!mesh

and then insert the whole MODEL node from the engine definition (changing the texture path to wherever you want to stick the textures). B9 is SA so that's fine, as long as attribution is to B9 for the original textures and me for the hackjob repaints.

All here:

https://github.com/NathanKell/ReachingfortheStars/tree/master/RftS/Parts/Jets

And once you do that, then I no longer have to ship anything but the VULCAN with RftS.

Also, wingnuts of the non-political kind might appreciate my newly remade F-100C Super Sabre / Hun. Now with actual more-or-less trapezoidal fuselage!

Whoa.. where did you get that cockpit?

[NathanKell]

Mettworks. I've clipped various stuff into it, changed its texture, and also did some cfg work to make it actually work though (you can get the revised version in the RftS pack that I linked).

[MAKC]

So what is the deal with a jet engine's maximum thrust? I've googled quite extensively and everyone says that a jet engine produces the maximum amount of thrust when static at sea level. Then why is it that the jets in EngineSim can produce more thrust than their maximum thrust? It's confusing.

[camlost]

So what is the deal with a jet engine's maximum thrust? I've googled quite extensively and everyone says that a jet engine produces the maximum amount of thrust when static at sea level. Then why is it that the jets in EngineSim can produce more thrust than their maximum thrust? It's confusing.

That's true for high-bypass turbofans only. For low-bypass or turbojets, not true

Sorry if this has been answered, but to install this without real fuels do I just need to find/replace "LiquidOxygen" with "Oxidizer" and "LiquidH2" with "LiquidFuel"? I'm also not sure if I need to do anything with Kerosene.

If you have MM 2.0+ don't worry about kerosene.

[MAKC]

That's true for high-bypass turbofans only. For low-bypass or turbojets, not true

If you have MM 2.0+ don't worry about kerosene.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Dr. Death]

the rapier loading problem is still there, maybe its a conflict, its there any compatibility issue with infernal robotics, hyperedit, or interstellar?

[NoMrBond]

Is there anything specific I need to do to make an engine compatible with AJE (if present)? Or would Camlost prefer that I leave the required MM config bundling to AJE?

[Hodo]

A few questions about intake size and such.

Now that intakes are back, what is the inlet size requirements and how do I calculate this before launching an aircraft?