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Lowest mass to orbit and back

ttnarg
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ttnarg

ttnarg

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This is my first challenge and a simple one I hope.

Some time Jeb gets bored and a bored Jeb can be a dangers thing so to keep him from messing things up, it has been decided to make him a small craft to get him into orbit. As some times he might be needed to test other craft to make sure they have enough engines and or struts (they never do) the craft need to be able to land back near the spaceport.

The management would not understand the need for such a craft so it needs to be as small (lowest mass) as possible to it can be hidden.

TL;DR Make a craft that can make orbit and land back at the spaceport, lowest mass wins. Must carry at least one kerbal.

Pictures or Videos needed.

Mass is the fully fueled weight of the craft (full fueled to stop people copying other designs and doing it with 0.1 less fuel)

Exception: You may empty a tank to lower your mass but only if you empty it all. For example the RCS tank on the command pod or all the oxygen in a liquid fuel tank if you’re using jets.

You can use a seat if you want but if you do you must count Jeb weight.

Stock only having Mod that doesn’t affect the flight install is fine. (if people ask for it I may add Modded leader board and even with out a leader board you free to show you mod craft if you cleary say that your using mods)

Leader board:

1) 1.429t - Tigik Now With video!

2) 1.668t - SlayerMcGee uses Docking Node Jr because they have less mass then decouple.

3) 3.050t - cyberklad. First entry (Jeb might have to swim a bit to get back but close enough)

Note: I know Command pods don't includes the mass of kerbals but chairs even includeing the kerbal mass is still a lot lighter then a command pod so my rule about count the kerbals mass on chairs count.

Amendment 1: As pointed out landing at the space port can just be a matter of trying lots of times till you get it right so as long as you land on the continent it will count we'll jeb can walk or swim. (you dont have to do this)

Amendment 2: Having a kerbal hanging on to a ladder feels like a hack even if you add structs to make up for the mass. So new Rule: Jeb must be in a command pot or chair.

Edited by ttnarg
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cyberklad

cyberklad

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ksp24.jpgksp25.jpgksp26.jpg

This thing has more then enough fuel for orbit. It could take a trip to minimus and back. It weighs in at 3.05T at the launchpad.

I did overshoot the landing a bit and ended up in the ocean a bit out from the spacecentre tho.

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tavert

tavert

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This was almost a year ago, 1.64 tons not including the pair of Kerbals:

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Nowadays with the 48-7S you can beat this by maybe half a ton or so? Kerbal on a ladder (perpendicular to thrust direction if you want to exploit broken physics to save dV), one FL-T100 drop tank off the front, and a couple of round-8 tanks to finish the ascent and do the powered landing. Doing the powered landing is obviously harder without MechJeb, but I bet some of you can do it :)

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ttnarg

ttnarg

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With out MechJeb this would of counted but you would have to of counted the mass of both kerbals. I'm sure it has given people some ideas. When I wrote this challenge I was worryed that the best craft would just be somthing simple with a Rapier engine I'm happy that that is not the case. I was trying to do something with jets and RCS but I think you have to use tiny engines to get the mass down and there are no stock tiny Rapier or tiny jet engines.

Exploiting broken physics would not count.

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Tigik

Tigik

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1607kg.

It has a ladder and in causes a kerbal has no weight, but it has additional 93kg (Probodobodyne QBE (80kg) + 13 Cubic octagonal srtuts (13kg)) that compensates kerbal mass lack.

I could land closer, but it is only a question of number of attemps. I dont think it is very important.

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Edited by Tigik
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SlayerMcGee

SlayerMcGee

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Thanks for a great challenge!

I now submit my craft, the HMS Minnow, weighing in at 1.582 tonnes without a Kerbal (1.668 tonnes with Jeb aboard). This craft has the tightest tolerances of any craft I have ever flown in the game, I deorbited and and landed with a remaining delta-V of 219 m/s in orbit!

Total weight: 1.582 tonnes (1.668 tonnes with Jeb aboard)

My edge over the previous designs I have seen above is my use of a non-explosive decoupler to remove my extra fuel tanks. When the decoupler exploded, the resulting forces caused my craft to loose about 100 m/s upward velocity. I instead designed this craft with a Docking Node Jr, with the decouple action bound to key "1". When the top tank is empty, I pitch right, press "1" to decouple, pitch left, and then full throttle. This design change eliminated a full yellow toroidal tank from my earlier working design.

Please take it for a spin, here is the craft file.

**NOTE**: I included two pics at the end of my album that show that KERBALS ADD NO WEIGHT TO A CREW CAPSULE, as such, I believe that using the external seat should not require adding the weight of the Kerbal to your craft's overall weight. Please discuss... :)

Mission details follow:

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tavert

tavert

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13 Cubic octagonal srtuts (13kg))

Cubic struts are massless in flight, so they actually don't count.

**NOTE**: I included two pics at the end of my album that show that KERBALS ADD NO WEIGHT TO A CREW CAPSULE, as such, I believe that using the external seat should not require adding the weight of the Kerbal to your craft's overall weight. Please discuss... :)

Crew capsules and seats behave differently here. Repeat your test with a seat, and you'll see the Kerbal mass does contribute to the craft.

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ttnarg

ttnarg

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I know Command pods don't includes the mass of kerbals but chairs even includeing the kerbal mass is still a lot lighter then a command pod so my rule about count the kerbals mass on chairs count. As tavert pointed out the game takes the kerbals mass into acount when using chairs and I will too.

I've added 2 Amendment to my first post.

Amendment 1: As pointed out landing at the space port can just be a matter of trying lots of times till you get it right so as long as you land on the continent it will count we'll jeb can walk or swim. (you dont have to do this)

Amendment 2: Having a kerbal hanging on to a ladder feels like a hack even if you add structs to make up for the mass. So new Rule: Jeb must be in a command pot or chair.

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Tigik

Tigik

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just look at this picture

Orbit info: apoapsis 74.250

periapsis 70.432

it means the craft is on the stable orbit above atmosphere

"orbit" 2294 means that the craft has an orbital speed of 2294 m/s at the moment

HFG9miH.png

Edited by Tigik
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Superfluous J

Superfluous J

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Can you define orbit, please?

What I mean is, does it have to say "orbit" on your navball, or do you have to be in a stable orbit of Periapsis>70km?

I would prefer the rules to be clarified by the OP

I don't think this needs clarified by the OP. You can "get into orbit" on the launchpad by your other definition. "In Kerbin Orbit" for any challenge means your periapsis is above the atmosphere. Per the wiki this is 69,077.553 meters above sea level but most people consider it to be 70,000 meters. If your margins (and ability to cut your burn) are small enough for that to matter, then we can call the OP to come in with a ruling but rest assured, saying "Orbit" on your navball is not enough.

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Sillychris

Sillychris

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How do you get into orbit on the launchpad!?

In regard to 5th horseman, I would like to point out that Cyberclad's entry does not show his periapsis but it does show orbit on the nav ball. He is on the leaderboard and this is what led me to ask the question in the first place.

Edited by Sillychris
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cyberklad

cyberklad

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How do you get into orbit on the launchpad!?

In regard to 5th horseman, I would like to point out that Cyberclad's entry does not show his periapsis but it does show orbit on the nav ball. He is on the leaderboard and this is what led me to ask the question in the first place.

Wheter or not it says orbit on the speed indicator doesn't matter. if you click on it with the mouse it swaps between orbital speed and surface speed. So you can be sitting on the ground and show what orbital speed you have.

Sillychris: If you take a look at the orbital information provided by mechjeb you can see what the periapsis is in my entry. If you take a look you will see that it's allmost at 160km

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ttnarg

ttnarg

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Sorry for the slow reply. I've been a little busy this weekend I'll up date the Leader board on Monday. But to clear some things up.

When I said orbit I did mean "the craft is on the stable orbit above atmosphere" (I liked the wording Tigik used)

As for proving if your in a stable orbit or not well lots of screen shots would be good but as with most challenges in the end you have to trust people. If they say they made it in to orbit I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

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Tigik

Tigik

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Tigik, 94 m/s from orbit to Jeb-surviving splashdown, really impressive! I didn't think it was possible until now, you must have lightning fast throttle response!

it is not hard, you just only had to know when you should start braking. It is about 250-300 meters above the water.

I've made the video shows how i made the same trip.

1337 kg craft (1429 kg with kerbal on it)

Edited by Tigik
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