[Ongoing Dev] [0.23.5] Modular Kolonization System v0.16 (RELEASE) [05-10-2014]

[RoverDude]

@RoverDude What settings are you running your game on, that looks beautiful!

Max graphic settings with compressed textures I have a very high end PC, but also a TON of addons

[RoverDude]

So after a lot of fiddling around, I think I'm going to focus on keeping the look/feel consistent with the NASA parts for the mars mission. They even have greenhouses and ISRU's. so other than the new resource containers I just tossed on github (smaller, inline versions) I'm going to hold off on updates for a week or two so people can focus on gameplay, and so that I can sort through the models (I will post art here, etc. for review).

The plus side is that the parts will be, in my opinion, a nice mesh of Kerbal and NASA parts (kinda like the mini shuttle project). The downside is they will not blend as well as stock parts, but then I have no aversion to adding a different model pack down the road if there's enough interest.

[birrhan]

couple of error codes for you:

http://i.imgur.com/nVllyhc.png?1

How do you supply construction parts?

http://i.imgur.com/C9oAOpR.png?2

What is missing from the colony hub?

[RoverDude]

couple of error codes for you:

http://i.imgur.com/nVllyhc.png?1

How do you supply construction parts?

http://i.imgur.com/C9oAOpR.png?2

What is missing from the colony hub?

For Construction Parts:

You either ship in or create construction parts with the construction hub - these are non-consumed resources, so basically once you have your 250 you're set for life. Think of it as buying a building that's just a shell, then all of the work in kitting it out with plumbing, furniture, wiring, etc. (that'a what construction parts represent). So you can have durable structures but not deal with the launch cost.

hrm.. your Colony hub should work (that error you see is basically it saying it's not attached to anything). See if clicking the generator helps.. if not, it may be a breaking change with the different caps. The config for all caps tells what kind it is, you need one that has 'Command' on it - i.e. this in the config file:

MODULE

{

name=KolonyWorkshop

PartCategory = Command

}

[birrhan]

For Construction Parts:

You either ship in or create construction parts with the construction hub - these are non-consumed resources, so basically once you have your 250 you're set for life. Think of it as buying a building that's just a shell, then all of the work in kitting it out with plumbing, furniture, wiring, etc. (that'a what construction parts represent). So you can have durable structures but not deal with the launch cost.

This makes more sense. Thanks. That's not entirely clear that a critical mass is required, though. It is an interesting concept, and I like it--it just wasn't clear.

hrm.. your Colony hub should work (that error you see is basically it saying it's not attached to anything). See if clicking the generator helps.. if not, it may be a breaking change with the different caps. The config for all caps tells what kind it is, you need one that has 'Command' on it - i.e. this in the config file:

MODULE

{

name=KolonyWorkshop

PartCategory = Command

}

I did indeed try toggling the generator, does not resolve. That windowed cap is especially for the colony hub, yeah? I think there's something wrong there.

It might be a global cap issue. I'm running into this issue with the greenhouse (as you can see, definitely has a clear cap):

http://i.imgur.com/yX6PzDi.png

I'm still running 0.12, because of the aforementioned loss of the "04" 2.5m supply containers.

[birrhan]

One more quick simulation.

Computer hub, solid cap, probe core, batteries. I set all consumables in the VAB to full, except colony supplies to 50. Launch, run "Assemble", and fast forward. This is the result:

http://i.imgur.com/SxZ72Zc.png

Notably, it doesn't seem to "assemble" anything, it just consumes resources. It seems that a module called "computer factory" that performs the function "assemble" ought to make computers, not require them (and "assemble" nothing").

I seem to be missing a critical concept here, and it's not on your wiki or explained in the flowchart you did for the food cycle. What exactly am I missing?

[RoverDude]

One more quick simulation.

Computer hub, solid cap, probe core, batteries. I set all consumables in the VAB to full, except colony supplies to 50. Launch, run "Assemble", and fast forward. This is the result:

http://i.imgur.com/SxZ72Zc.png

Notably, it doesn't seem to "assemble" anything, it just consumes resources. It seems that a module called "computer factory" that performs the function "assemble" ought to make computers, not require them (and "assemble" nothing").

I seem to be missing a critical concept here, and it's not on your wiki or explained in the flowchart you did for the food cycle. What exactly am I missing?

Yep, a computer factory makes computers. It's very possible you have a bad build - there was a point where those modules did not work right, so you may want to grab the ZIP again and retry

[birrhan]

Yep, a computer factory makes computers. It's very possible you have a bad build - there was a point where those modules did not work right, so you may want to grab the ZIP again and retry

Would you PLEASE update to include the old storage containers? I can't update without them. Literally game breaking.

[RoverDude]

To add on - Computers are one of the bits you need for ColonySupplies - it's the longset chain in the series, as you can see by the illustration below

Orange = something you can harvest.

Blue = non-harvested resources/output.

Grey = an MKS module.

Green is the resource you're trying to produce.

Orange lines = a resource is consumed.

Green lines = a resource is produced.

[RoverDude]

Sure, I'll plug back in the legacy one plus there are new ones.

[RoverDude]

Ok - 0.13.1 is up, some new containers and the old one is back.

[birrhan]

danke. My preliminary run through showed the kerbitat functioning normally, greenhouse functioning normally, computer center working nominally.

It appears the resource requirements in 0.13 were much more harmonious. Thank you. All I did was install 0.13 and copy the old storage container over.

[birrhan]

http://i.imgur.com/JZUF8Nl.png

I would highly recommend putting this graphic on the front page. This is arguably critical to understanding the supply chain. thank you!

[RoverDude]

I would highly recommend putting this graphic on the front page. This is arguably critical to understanding the supply chain. thank you!

No debate I'll be doing more wiki work while I work on the next version. On a side note, for 0.14, I am putting the bits in an experimentals folder with alternate part names while testing continues, that way folks can choose to play with the new parts separately from the legacy ones. Just be aware that once this goes to the initial release, all of the old parts will be deprecated and everything will get it's final name, etc.

[RoverDude]

MKS Mechanic: Logistics.

Because of how MKS works and the sheer number of launches, etc. KAS pipes can get just a little bit buggy (with too many random explosions). So I've been playing with the design concept of logistics - basically, the auto-transfer of resources between MKS modules without direct connections. The main rub has been that this can feel too much like 'magic'. so I would like to put forth a design proposal for early feedback that I think mitigates this.

In the real world, interconnection of modules for a colony should not be required to transfer stuff. Folks would either hand carry, or more likely, use rovers to shuttle resources around. thus, a new part will be created (along with a subassembly) that is basically a cargo rover body. These would be parked in between modules to build and extend logistics chains. Working numbers are 50m from a Rover to the Colony Hub or an MKS module, 100m between Rovers. There has to be a chain from the MKS module to the Colony Hub for this to work, but with enough Rovers, players could build very large supply chains. Obligatory image below:

Visually, you would see ant trails of Rovers between far flung modules, thus helping in the suspension of disbelief.

[Josh Hawley]

That sounds cool! Building a base of any size seems to attract the krakken. Perhaps instead of 50m to a rover, there is a very small sized building that houses a rover (a rover bay/garage). That would make the base into smaller clusters of buildings connected by rovers. Also, rovers tend to have quite a few parts on them. By the time you have 5 buildings, you might have as many as 8 rovers. Seems like FPS will go down in a hurry. Even the best of computers has trouble in the 1000+ part range.

[Moon Goddess]

To me the idea that people would hand carry or use rovers rather than interconnect modules is what hurts my suspension of disbelief it just doesn't seem believable to me, but I may just be the outsider there.

[RoverDude]

To me the idea that people would hand carry or use rovers rather than interconnect modules is what hurts my suspension of disbelief it just doesn't seem believable to me, but I may just be the outsider there.

Interestingly enough, the pics I find of the NASA Mars DRM almost always show non-connected modules with Rovers around them (it's part of what inspired the idea, since the newer models are very DRM like).

Same with their concepts for a moon base...

So maybe not so far fetched

[birrhan]

To me the idea that people would hand carry or use rovers rather than interconnect modules is what hurts my suspension of disbelief it just doesn't seem believable to me, but I may just be the outsider there.

I'll second that one. OTOH, the game gets kinda glitchy with about 30 modules in play, and more so when they are within the 2.25 km off-rails zone. But on the other hand.... I worked really hard to get all those docking ports to line up right. And the glitching will happen when those modules are connected or not--they just have to be in the zone. I like the idea. but I feel like it's gonna backfire and look more like Command and Conquer or Warcraft 2 than KSP, ya know?

[CobaltWolf]

MKS Mechanic: Logistics.

Because of how MKS works and the sheer number of launches, etc. KAS pipes can get just a little bit buggy (with too many random explosions). So I've been playing with the design concept of logistics - basically, the auto-transfer of resources between MKS modules without direct connections. The main rub has been that this can feel too much like 'magic'. so I would like to put forth a design proposal for early feedback that I think mitigates this.

In the real world, interconnection of modules for a colony should not be required to transfer stuff. Folks would either hand carry, or more likely, use rovers to shuttle resources around. thus, a new part will be created (along with a subassembly) that is basically a cargo rover body. These would be parked in between modules to build and extend logistics chains. Working numbers are 50m from a Rover to the Colony Hub or an MKS module, 100m between Rovers. There has to be a chain from the MKS module to the Colony Hub for this to work, but with enough Rovers, players could build very large supply chains. Obligatory image below:

http://i.imgur.com/EMWE9Vb.png

Visually, you would see ant trails of Rovers between far flung modules, thus helping in the suspension of disbelief.

If you let them go past the 2.5km physics limit, and just have it diagrammed in some sort of toolbar-based UI I'd like that.

Also, question that I thought of in class today: Would a colony be able to support more than just itself? If I build a colony on Laythe, and put a space station in orbit, would I be able to use the colony to support both itself and the station?

[rbos]

In EVE Online, using the Planetary Interaction interface, you have to explicitly define 'links' between factories, storage, and launchpads. Perhaps "roadways" with "capacity" could be an analogy to this. In EVE, links have bandwidth (in m3/cycle), power requirements (in GW), and CPU requirements (Terafarads, I think), each of which can be pretty easy to overload.

[smunisto]

Are you considering the switch to liters for TAC LS units, such as food, oxygen and water?

There is a discussion going in its own thread and some people have even done the switching already via cfg edits.

How will your mod play with that?

[RoverDude]

If you let them go past the 2.5km physics limit, and just have it diagrammed in some sort of toolbar-based UI I'd like that.

Also, question that I thought of in class today: Would a colony be able to support more than just itself? If I build a colony on Laythe, and put a space station in orbit, would I be able to use the colony to support both itself and the station?

It will work in a way similar to how RemoteTech works RE linking. I had some other ideas RE orbit, etc. (there would have to be costs involved as well as delay) but that would be a later phase

- - - Updated - - -

Are you considering the switch to liters for TAC LS units, such as food, oxygen and water?

There is a discussion going in its own thread and some people have even done the switching already via cfg edits.

How will your mod play with that?

Yep, that's definitely something I'd want to do, so when that hits and TAC gets down to their final numbers, I'll adjust all of mine to fit in and do a rebalancing run.

[RoverDude]

I'll second that one. OTOH, the game gets kinda glitchy with about 30 modules in play, and more so when they are within the 2.25 km off-rails zone. But on the other hand.... I worked really hard to get all those docking ports to line up right. And the glitching will happen when those modules are connected or not--they just have to be in the zone. I like the idea. but I feel like it's gonna backfire and look more like Command and Conquer or Warcraft 2 than KSP, ya know?

Figure either way, folks will be free to choose - would be an alternative, just like KAS is not required (though I expect folks will use it) and for me, it just seems unrealistic that I am pouring all of that stuff via a 6" pipe

[mrh]

Ore mines and other resources are not necessarily found at optimal locations for any kind of reasonable link. On earth, we use tankers to transport the materials to the refineries and to move the resulting refined materials to where they are consumed. My kolony is in very early in development but I'm planning to use KAS on my tank-rover to transport kethane to a location where I have been fortunate enough to find ore and other resources.

Edited April 9, 2014 by mrh
clarity