B9 5.0 pre-release (with download)

[petros_a_l]

If I may suggest something, since you are going to use firespitter to change textures in the next B9 update, why don't you also include heatshield textured wings. We could overcome the symmetry problem during the assembly, using Biotronic's stripsymmetry mod .

[Taverius]

If I may suggest something, since you are going to use firespitter to change textures in the next B9 update, why don't you also include heatshield textured wings. We could overcome the symmetry problem during the assembly, using Biotronic's stripsymmetry mod .

We talked about it, then bac9 looked at the texture map for the SW winglets/wingtips/canards and decided he'd rather stay sane.

[Alewx]

http://youtu.be/3KRWgJ_yiKo

Video showing the FireSpitter animated controls of the WIP B9 HL Cockpit, joystick does pitch and roll, pedals yaw and brakes, pedals also operate landing gear turn if bound to same controls as yaw (is by default).

I like it, Looks like a real Cockpit, the notes are awesome, will they be readable?

And just to me, as I followed the thread, will the current HL cockpit get replaced with the more airplane like cockpit, or will it be an alternate version?

[K3-Chris]

when will release?

I might push out a pre-release again soon but I'm trying to focus on polishing up the cockpit and the other parts of the mod, I've learned a lot about specular maps and normals from Tav and bac lately which I need to apply to the older parts/IVAs, I need to polish up my work a fair bit to integrate it into B9 without sticking out like a sore thumb.

I know it's hard to see from those angles but the interior walls are still untextured and the interior wall behind the front seats doesn't join with the floor at all etc:

All those props are good at drawing your eye away from the unfinished parts but the third seat especially gives a good view of it's unfinished state. It won't take me long to do those bits but I need to do them, sorry if the video made it look near done.

I like it, Looks like a real Cockpit, the notes are awesome, will they be readable?

It's actually 90% the S2 IVA tucked and pulled a bit to fit inside the HL Cockpit the sticky notes and pre-flight checklist are both from S2, they're readable at highest texture resolution, which sadly isn't really easy to play with, active texture management tends to cut down texture res to about mid quality.

And just to me, as I followed the thread, will the current HL cockpit get replaced with the more airplane like cockpit, or will it be an alternate version?

There isn't a HL cockpit currently actually, most people use a Mk5 on a HL adapter for HL sized planes, I'm planning on re-hauling the Mk5 exterior and giving it an IVA but I didn't really like the Mk5 I came up with earlier, HL clicked better and thus I prioritized it.

I'm considering making a non-space SKU of the cockpit with no heatshields and RCS thrusters and lower weight, but I'm sure that would lead to people using it for spaceplanes by adding RCS thrusters to it so I'm torn, if DRE or similar (though perhaps a bit more lenient) was in stock it would be different.

Edited June 11, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Alewx]

There isn't a HL cockpit currently actually, most people use a Mk5 on a HL adapter for HL sized planes, I'm planning on re-hauling the Mk5 exterior and giving it an IVA but I didn't really like the Mk5 I came up with earlier, HL clicked better and thus I prioritized it.

I'm considering making a non-space SKU of the cockpit with no heatshields and RCS thrusters and lower weight, but I'm sure that would lead to people using it for spaceplanes by adding RCS thrusters to it so I'm torn, if DRE or similar (though perhaps a bit more lenient) was in stock it would be different.

Thanks,

my mistake, I meant the MK5 not HL:( and yep I also ment the exterior the IVA Looks so great so far, for all the parts you made.

[K3-Chris]

Btw detail shots of those S2 props:

Working on the window textures:

Think I'm getting quite close to the S2 textures

[falken]

Looking exceptional. I think you said you were having issues with having a HUD element infront of the pilots that would fold away... how about a compromise and have the HUD be toggleable on and off?

Also as it's using ASET props, will you be having alternate lighting modes?

Really looking forward to the next release.

[Tex_NL]

No offence, I love the work done so far. But I could really use a reduced texture pack.

I am scraping my RAM limit and installing this mod was NOT beneficial for my frame rate. Reducing the textures might bring the frame rate back up to playable levels.

[K3-Chris]

You don't use texture reduction packs anymore. use Active Texture Management.

Yeah I'll try to make different lighting levels work and link that with the exterior emissives as well etc, and I've already said I'll have a folding togglable hud.

Edited June 11, 2014 by K3|Chris

[K3-Chris]

I've started finalizing the interior wall geometry and adding textures, window pillars and window frames etc done, need to figure out the transition between the windows and walls and ceiling...

(Chairs hidden for visibility's sake)

Edited June 12, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Tidus Klein]

HAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.......(drools all over key board)

thats amazing dude! keep it up.

[K3-Chris]

Thanks, yeah I'm on the home-stretch on the HL Cockpit feels like, should be done before Monday, got time to work on it this weekend.

Tav also handed me the re-hauled S3 geometry and I've quickly UV mapped it to the old texture:

I obviously need to modify the texture to include the new/modified parts (windows instead of moving canopy thing, additional visible geometry inside the joints etc.

Tav's album shows a test animation:

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(Hold left/right arrow to see the animation)

Compare with the old version:

Reason for the change is that the old version was pretty impossible to make an IVA for, and even if I managed to make one you'd see nearly nothing out of it, a TU-144/concord style drop-nose gives you much better visibility when you need it during landing and takeoff.

Edited June 13, 2014 by K3|Chris

[K3-Chris]

Very quick paintover showing the window locations:

As the animation above shows the idea is that the more angled windows and the nose articulate downwards to give better visibility during takeoff/approach/landing with 3 modes todal:

Nose and window up (normal flight)

Nose up, window down (approach/subsonic)

Nose down, window down (landing, takeoff)

What do you guys think?

Edited June 13, 2014 by K3|Chris

[Percebob]

Looks way better (and more functional) than the original S2.

[lazza49]

Why not included all four up/down possibilities and add Nose down, window up (approach). Or does that look weird?

[K3-Chris]

Very, visor is connected to the nose anyway, and the visor up pretty much negates all the visibility you gain by dropping the nose anyway, the animation is modeled after the way concord and tu-144 worked.

[K3-Chris]

Was griping in my usual manner on #kspmodders about the HUD issue with masking stuff not working properly, Mihara author of RasterPropMonitor was in today and graciously spent some time coming up with a solution (I'm very good at making other people spent a lot of time coding solutions for me it seems...), each kerbal in IVA has their own InternalSeat module pointed at a SeatTransform, he figured out a way to check which kerbal you're in control of and showing props selectively based on that:

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Those HUDs are actually in front of the window, they're pretty large and almost next to each other (center of each is centered on the kerbal inside) I've set it up like this before and while it worked you saw 2 HUDs, using one HUD in the middle instead looks weird because of the offset, this allows me to show the HUD only to the kerbal it's intended for, the third kerbal in the back can't see either HUD.

I'm not entirely sure what this kind of HUD projection should look like seen side-on, hard to find reference images of it, idea is that there is something on the "dashboard" projecting the image onto the window at an oblique enough angle to make it bounce into your eyes, I'll add a prop on the dashboard itself for the image to come out of and a button somewhere to toggle it on and off, I'm thinking defaulting to off.

Please forgive the ceiling texture, it's just a block-out to figure out the major shapes etc.

[Tidus Klein]

WOO WOO WOO.....SO theres a window....in front of a window? that doesnt make any sense.....

*looks up pictures of the tu-144*

OOO ok I guess that works....COOL!

[RussianIvan]

Will the overhead panel?

You can display action groups...

[RussianIvan]

WOO WOO WOO.....SO theres a window....in front of a window? that doesnt make any sense.....

*looks up pictures of the tu-144*

OOO ok I guess that works....COOL!

He was a supersonic passenger plane. Nose - fairing. He was raised during the flight, but fell to the ground, landing / takeoff.

[smunisto]

The Tu-144 always looked like a sad puppy when landed.

[wasmic]

He was a supersonic passenger plane. Nose - fairing. He was raised during the flight, but fell to the ground, landing / takeoff.

http://www.testpilot.ru/russia/tupolev/144/images/tu144_a144.jpg http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/4/7/1482740.jpg

Wasn't that the plane that was pretty much a Concorde ripoff? They even have the same tipping nose.

[RussianIvan]

The Tu-144 always looked like a sad puppy when landed.

Wasn't that the plane that was pretty much a Concorde ripoff? They even have the same tipping nose.

"Concord" and the Tu-144 were almost similar as two drops of water. The creators of "Concord" was accused of stealing a Tupolev many technical solutions. But to prove it and failed. I must say that despite the superficial similarity, the aircraft still quite different. Thus, TU-144 was significantly larger in its western "twins": Soviet ship could transport up to 150 passengers, and "Concord" - no more than 128. Moreover, despite its size, That was much more maneuverable and had a smaller run-up to take off than the "Concorde", which was less

And more ..

The first flight of the Concorde 2 March 1969

The first flight of the Tu-144 December 31, 1968

[Konnor]

Wasn't that the plane that was pretty much a Concorde ripoff?

Tu-144 and Concorde were being developed more or less simultaneously, and, as RussianIvan already pointed out, Tupolev managed to beat Concorde and build a working prototype earlier. Moreover, Tu-144 was the first commercial aircraft to reach Mach 2.

However, early version of Tu-144 was, should I say, a bit incomplete. It had to use suboptimal turbofan engines and resort to afterburner to maintain supersonic cruise speed; as a result, cabin noise was far too much to be comfortable. This was only fixed in a later version, Tu-144D, equipped with turbojets.

Also, look at these canards: they are retractable and were used during landing (because delta wings at low speeds required high angle of atack - hence the tipping nose in both designs). As far as I know, Concorde featured no such thing as retractable canards.

[K3-Chris]

Will the overhead panel?

You can display action groups...

Yeah I'm going to use all the working ASET buttons for the ASET version of the IVA, idea is to have no "fake/placeholder" controls in the ASET version, all of it will be real buttons/gauges/monitors etc that do real stuff, without ASET you'll drop down to the RPM version that has the RPM props like MFDs but not the ASET buttons, without RPM and ASET you drop down to the FireSpitter displays which aren't as nice as the RPM ones but still work, you'll be short all the working buttons and have only the "fake" buttons from the S2 IVA.

Not sure about overhead, problem is that kerbals have enormous heads, the interior ceiling is already pretty thin to accommodate that and to fit in controls up there would be a bit tricky, and the angle would be weird, there is a lot of free space around the throttle and on the front corners for more controls, and the third kerbal behind the others faces a wall of controls

About the Tu-144 and concord discussion: they're clearly cross-pollinating designs though the Tu-144 had some lets say issues, a lot of them fell out of the sky, though concord obviously had the same issue but mostly due to lacking maintenance, pretty sure both weren't all that economical to fly, though it's weird to me that there isn't supersonic passenger anymore, problem I guess that there aren't enough hyper rich people that want to jet between continents a bit faster than normal. Perhaps smaller capacity supersonic jets would have a market though?

Tavarious made the design a hybrid somewhere between the concord and Tu-144, it's closer to concord I guess except for the less complex geometry, concord has crazy curves sliding over curves stuff (which I imagine is part of the reason it was a nightmare to service) while the Tu-144 is basically a cone cut in half pretty simply and hinged.

The S3 cockpit is pretty impractical, purely logically speaking it's inferior to the S2, it's heavier, it's larger, it's mechanically more complex etc but it's about 100 times cooler.

Edited June 14, 2014 by K3|Chris