Phoebus MkIII. My best light Saturn V replica yet. 220 parts!

[Rune]

Hello! This thing has been on the development track for a while, but it hasn't been until 0.23.5 that I have decided ity's enough of an improvement over the MkI that I have to release it. And with the new 3.75m parts, it looks great! It is very tight on margins (fidelity to the original and all that), and it has all the bells and whistles to perform a J-class mission, with the small rover and RTG-powered science package included! Also, it runs entirely on batteries, has an independent interstage between the S-I, S-II, and S-IVb stages, has the correct number of engines for each stage, hollow service module with bays, hullage engines for stage separation, the correct number of chutes... ...

So yeah, I went big on fidelity. The only thing I am a little irritated at not having is the CM hanging off the top of the lander and not the fairing, but doing it any other way would have jumped the part count beyond "playable by potato computers", and that has always been the design philosophy behind the Phoebus series. Never mind that it also looks as sexy as a custom mod now IMO... I really like how the landing site looks now when you leave, and the tiny cute lander looks really good and somewhat reminiscent of the original LEM, which in such a small size (<2.5m diameter) is really hard to get.

Flight profile is basically what you would expect form a typical Apollo J-class mission, just keep in mind that the only margin you really have is in the S-IV stage, and only a couple hundred m/s. You will land on Mun on fumes or with an empty tank, you will have to use RCS to finish orbit insertion of the LEM upper stage, and it is heavily recommended to use the RCS to start the return burn and then use the main tanks to increase efficiency, otherwise you might not make it. Oh, and break and park in a <10km orbit... easy, right? Yeah, this craft definitely is only for advanced players, but for those is poses a really nice and fun challenge, and I believe those razor-thin margins are very much in the spirit of the original Apollo.

Also, a final friendly jab to all those Saturn replicas out there (which are in their own way amazing) that use mainsails as F-1 equivalents... I had to limit the thrust on those 5 skippers to 80% to replicate the Saturn V's low T/W at liftoff. See you at Mun and watch out for littering fines!

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Rune. Ok, NOW I don't think I can do a better Apollo lookalike. It even has the stripes!

[Redrobin]

Finally it is released to the public

If only I wasn't in a Holiday Inn in the middle of nowhere, Missouri...

[astropapi1]

Truly a craft worth admiring. Good work!

[Azref]

Very nice craft, Gratz on making such a great looking stock Saturn V replica.

[Comrade Jenkens]

If you can lift my Saturn V replica with skippers I'd be very impressed.

[Rune]

Thank you guys! I'm glad you like it, and I hope you enjoy flying this challenging mission. 0.23.5 is going to be a good version for Apollo replicas I think!

If you can lift my Saturn V replica with skippers I'd be very impressed.

Well, it's all a matter of how many you use But good luck filling the payload capacity!

Rune. And I got a new cookie bar! As if that means anything!

[Jeb Cubed]

That looks nice, I like it better than most "life size " replicas because stock fairings just don't look all to good and decrease the performance. Anyways, the Saturn V replicas that have been comeing out look really good. I think I released mine a bit to early.

[GusTurbo]

This is awesome, great job! Definitely a good use of the new parts.

[Laughing Man]

Man I want to fly that thing, being stuck on a work trip sucks so hard. :-(

[Darth Lazarus]

just took her for a flight and ... crashed serval miles downrange into teh ground ... that thing is WOBBLY ... second attempt was a succes.

but, judiging after the KER ... teh fuel is really barly enough

edit:

how to fix the wobble:

the first stage is wobbling hard, just add some struts between the three different tanks and change the 4 struts under the interstagefairings in to 8 struts in a x-shape 4x symetry

edit:

third attempt to reach Orbit:

no trouble at all, the offset CoM forces some trimming during launch.

but, ~1200 m/s dV left in the S-IVb stage in a nice 72x74 Orbit

time to go to mun...

Edited April 7, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[Rune]

just took her for a flight and ... crashed serval miles downrange into teh ground ... that thing is WOBBLY ... second attempt was a succes.

but, judiging after the KER ... teh fuel is really barly enough

edit:

how to fix the wobble:

the first stage is wobbling hard, just add some struts between the three different tanks and change the 4 struts under the interstagefairings in to 8 struts in a x-shape 4x symetry

edit:

third attempt to reach Orbit:

no trouble at all, the offset CoM forces some trimming during launch.

but, ~1200 m/s dV left in the S-IVb stage in a nice 72x74 Orbit

time to go to mun...

Crash? I knew about the wobble, but that seems a bit excessive... the most that happens is I get a 10º tilt to the north when leaving the pad, and a bit of a hard time steering it through the roll. I blame it completely on the 3.75m decoupler, that thing is buggy! I tried to stabilize it in ten different ways, and it is much better than it once was. Panels moving weirdly, gaps appearing, definitely not the way it is intended to work, as it is, the 2.5m decoupler is much more rigid. Consider the rest of the rocket has a grand total of two struts... And thinking about it, I think I can make do without it, I might try the slight redesign when I get back home this afternoon, see if it rigidizes things. You shouldn't need the struts between tanks with the new joints, though.

Rune. Thanks for the feedback, both good and bad!

[Darth Lazarus]

hey Rune !

just got on the Mun and it was an awesome ride, realy enjoing this little apollo replica. time to get back ... somehow

about teh wobble: it's not only the 3.75m decoupler. the 1/4 sized tanks are not realy joined together. i saw a slightly offset connecting during lunch so i had to add the struts to make it less wobbly (even no wobble at all now). works perfectly like this.

[Giggleplex777]

IWhile flying your rocket, I notices that the interstage would blow up when you stage. It bothered me quite a bit, so I built my own interstage for the rocket, but this time it's hollow.

No pics right now, but I'll post them later.

[Rune]

IWhile flying your rocket, I notices that the interstage would blow up when you stage. It bothered me quite a bit, so I built my own interstage for the rocket, but this time it's hollow.

No pics right now, but I'll post them later.

It'll be a race, because I think we have the same idea... starts with a stack separator, right?

Edit. Got it rock-solid on first try once I ditched the 3.75m decoupler. I'm still not 100% there, but now it's aesthetics. Perhaps I should report it, it must be a bug.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Rune

[Rune]

Done! This is how the staging event looks now (the stack decoupler with fairing gets vaporized when you turn of the second stage engines, but the structural panel ring holds together):

The file in the OP has been updated, and now I'm much happier with this one (10 less parts, too). And I think I won't even look into the other "surprise" you get when you are coming back to Kerbin... that one makes for awesome reentries

I also stitched together the first stage tanks as Lazarus suggested, and yes, that also improved things, you no longer really need to pilot it until the gravity turn. I guess I am becoming too good a pilot to judge what is flyable... ^^'

Rune. Feedback makes builds perfect.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Rune

[Darth Lazarus]

Rune ... try to add struts between the tanks of teh first stage. the 1/4 sized 3.75m tanks are the reason of teh wobble, not only the decoupler

[astropapi1]

Stupid philosophy homework.

I just want to go to the Mun...

[Majorjim!]

Done! This is how the staging event looks now (the stack decoupler with fairing gets vaporized when you turn of the second stage engines, but the structural panel ring holds together):

http://i.imgur.com/mMDvjIY.png

The file in the OP has been updated, and now I'm much happier with this one (10 less parts, too). And I think I won't even look into the other "surprise" you get when you are coming back to Kerbin... that one makes for awesome reentries

I also stitched together the first stage tanks as Lazarus suggested, and yes, that also improved things, you no longer really need to pilot it until the gravity turn. I guess I am becoming too good a pilot to judge what is flyable... ^^'

Rune. Feedback makes builds perfect.

Hi Rune.

You really should use the technique I discovered to remove the stock fairings. That way you wont have the separation splosion.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43086-Open-Source-Construction-Techniques-for-Craft-Aesthetics?p=985631&viewfull=1#post985631

I do love the rover deployment!!

Its a decent Apollo Rune. I would like to have seen you try to make separating fairings for the lander though.

MJ

Edited April 7, 2014 by Majorjim
because

[Rune]

Hi Rune.

You really should use the technique I discovered to remove the stock fairings. That way you wont have the separation splosion.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/43086-Open-Source-Construction-Techniques-for-Craft-Aesthetics?p=985631&viewfull=1#post985631

I do love the rover deployment!!

Its a decent Apollo Rune. I would like to have seen you try to make separating fairings for the lander though.

MJ

That would be a cool idea if it worked. Not that it would get rid of the explosion (the separator would still be there to explode), but it would be less noticeable without the stock fairing. However, I can't for the life of me replicate it in my game. Have you tried it in 0.23.5?

As to the lander fairings... well, it's an idea to write down for the next time.

Rune ... try to add struts between the tanks of teh first stage. the 1/4 sized 3.75m tanks are the reason of teh wobble, not only the decoupler

Already done. It wasn't much, but yeah, it did something.

Stupid philosophy homework.

I just want to go to the Mun...

It'll still be there when you are done! But yeah, stupid RL not letting us play all that we would want... Which reminds me, gotta hurry!

Rune. Is very glad you guys like this so much!

[Majorjim!]

That would be a cool idea if it worked. Not that it would get rid of the explosion (the separator would still be there to explode), but it would be less noticeable without the stock fairing. However, I can't for the life of me replicate it in my game. Have you tried it in 0.23.5?

As to the lander fairings... well, it's an idea to write down for the next time.

Yeah it works in the new version. I have already used it in my in progress Apollo.

Watch the video and try placing the parts in different order. Try each decoupler. It does work so don't let it frustrate you.

A little stoicism goes a long way in KSP.

MJ

[Giggleplex777]

It'll be a race, because I think we have the same idea... starts with a stack separator, right?

Edit. Got it rock-solid on first try once I ditched the 3.75m decoupler. I'm still not 100% there, but now it's aesthetics. Perhaps I should report it, it must be a bug.

The engines can fire through my version (like the real thing).

[Rune]

Yeah it works in the new version. I have already used it in my in progress Apollo.

Watch the video and try placing the parts in different order. Try each decoupler. It does work so don't let it frustrate you.

A little stoicism goes a long way in KSP.

MJ

I'll finagle things more if I get the time then, but as of now, it doesn't really bother me that much... during a normal launch, that stack separator fairing bothers the sight for about half a second (the time between two spacebar strokes), and when it leaves, it leaves because you burned it to ashes. For being ugly. And yeah, KSP sometimes won't want to cooperate. But when it does it's awesome!

The engines can fire through my version (like the real thing).

The side engines, yeah, no problem. But the middle one has to hit the decoupler it's decoupling from... unless you have come up with something I really, really want to see. So post your pics!

Rune. Perhaps with lateral decouplers? But then I foresee part count and structural issues...

[Giggleplex777]

BTW, the S-IVB has 3 ullage motors, and the retromotors on the S-IC are on the radial engine cowling.

[GusTurbo]

Yeah it works in the new version. I have already used it in my in progress Apollo.

Watch the video and try placing the parts in different order. Try each decoupler. It does work so don't let it frustrate you.

A little stoicism goes a long way in KSP.

MJ

So far, I've only gotten the no fairing technique to work with the tiny stack separator in .23.5

[Majorjim!]

So far, I've only gotten the no fairing technique to work with the tiny stack separator in .23.5

Hmmm, Ive done it with the TR-18D stack Seperator on a Skipper in 23.5

I'm going to devote a few hours to this soon. And write up exactly whats doable and whats not.

MJ