How do you feel about part clipping?

[boxman]

I am completely fine with it as long as it is for aesthical reasons and not cheating like for example clipping "thousands" of air intakes or similar.

But that is just me... I say do whatever you want as long as it makes the game fun for you to play.

[ayana]

Only ever for RCS thrusters. Or plane engines when symmetry is refusing to work.

[HelmyJune]

I pretty much just leave clipping turn on in the debug menu. Not because I prefer clipping parts but because of KSP's wonky clipping detection. I don't even know how many times I've been building a rocket and you have to perform some magic handshake to get a part to place in a position where it isn't even clipping anything. But the editor will allow you allow you to place items inside of fuel tanks and stuff as long as you don't actually clip through the textures.

I consider that cheating more than say clipping the edges of engines together to make an actually decent cluster. Now that the new engines are out I don't see myself making anymore custom engine clusters though. They were pretty much the only reason I ever turned on clipping to actually clip items together.

[Levelord]

Because of how the KP atmospheric model works, clipping doesn't seem to add any calculable advantages to a craft compared to a non-clipped part.

Here are my reasons:

1.) Clipping parts for an aesthetically pleasing craft does not make the craft any more aerodynamic or fly further than a non-clipped part, since the game calculates drag based on mass regardless of an item clipped into another. A 20 part non clipped plane will still impart the same amount of drag as a 20 part clipped plane.

2.) Clipping parts doesn't make the craft lighter because the game still calculates the mass of each part and you are still going to have to lift that extra weight anyway.

3.) Clipping engines to give a higher TwR still provides the same amount of thrust as a non-clipped cluster of the same type of engine. They both consume the same amount of fuel and have the same ISP.

4.) The only advantage clipping seems to give is real estate space on a craft and making it look less ugly.

Unless clipping allows you to fly further than a conventional craft that doesn't use clipping, then I would consider it cheating. For example, I consider intake stacking/clipping a bit cheating because it makes you fly higher and further than you normally would.

[WooDzor]

'I hardly ever see rockets that feature heavy clipping' (..)

Excuse me..

I love clipping. I'd clip my two dogs together with my cat if it would make something decent looking. It just allows you to make things look nice and give a bit more personal touch to whatever you build instead of launching the same old CM on the next asparagus rocket..

I like realistic looking rockets, if that means I have to clip and mess around with the spacial dimensions of parts a bit.. meh

Edited April 10, 2014 by WooDzor

[Hurry- Starfish!]

There's a range of part clipping. Clipping one fuel tank inside another to double its capacity feels cheaty to me, clipping the edges of an engine (not the nozzle) to make an engine cluster does not.

Basically this. I use clipping (and cubic struts) quite a lot, but only for stuff that looks reasonable, not for blatantly violating physical laws. For example, I use it to create afromentioned engine clusters. I also clip structural parts into each other or into fuel tanks. But stuff like the above rocket with intersecting filled fuel tanks (or intakes, or even *shudder* command pods) is going too far. My criterion is it has to look believable, within the Kerbal universe.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Hurry, Starfish!

[Umlüx]

its all about the fun. so, i am clipping like a mofo until my fingers clip through the keyboard!

[Quiana]

Occasionally, non-debug clipping is something I do when it logically makes sense. See this example:

Notice how I clipped the probe core into the hollow strut along with a xeon tank. It gives some use of the 'empty space' in the middle of the device without breaking logically an action that should be possible.

Edit: This is actually a satellite for a challenge I'm participating in, with a requirement that it must have thrust, RCS, power itself, and have two forms of communications with three science modules. As well as being at least 1.25 tons (tops out at precisely 1.26 fully fueled).

Edited April 10, 2014 by Quiana

[NecroBones]

Notice how I clipped the probe core into the hollow strut along with a xeon tank. It gives some use of the 'empty space' in the middle of the device without breaking logically an action that should be possible.

That's about the limit of clipping I do too. Putting things inside the empty space, or crossing structural components. Nothing that requires debug or save-editing. A good example also is when I let some of the monopropellant tanks clip into each other a little, to look like one medium-sized tank:

[Heagar]

Clipping is a thing i believe everyone have to decide on her/his own.

I do it on a minor base. You see two two-stage landers in comparison. Both where used for an apollo alike craft.

The first is without clipping.

The second is with clipping, because the VAB wasn't so tall at that time i had to shrink the second two-man lander. And since this craft should carry a rover and a few sience-packs, i used octagonal struts for additional attach-points.

And more clipping i do mostly when it comes to a base for the looks with structural elements.

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[-Velocity-]

I always have part-clipping enabled, but I never use it to do anything blatant, like putting parts very far inside each other. Most often, I have to turn on part clipping simply because the game won't let me put parts in places where there is *nothing at all* blocking the parts from being placed. The VAB is just buggy and my parts are "clipping" with something that is non-existent.

[LethalDose]

I practically never use it on purpose, and work pretty hard to avoid it where possible.

I think the biggest and cheaty-est issue I have with it is intake spamming, which I've seen used and suggested too many times to count. There seems to be a big contingent of players who think it's somehow realistic or intended by the devs.

[Mister Kingdom]

Notice how I clipped the probe core into the hollow strut along with a xeon tank. It gives some use of the 'empty space' in the middle of the device

It always seems logical to me to do this. I tend to do things like clip RCS tanks into Large ASAS modules, as they are, according to the game, hollow, and it makes less sense, from a design point of view, to have the tanks on the outside when you have a load of empty space on the inside of the rocket. Also, the vehicle looks better when all of the components are somewhat hidden. That being said, I am sometimes guilty of taking this too far, such as putting several intakes halfway into a fuel tank. ( I don't really consider this "Cheating", as they aren't fully hidden, and most of the surface area is exposed, especially when you reduce the amount of fuel in the tank according to how much of the intake is inside)

[GusTurbo]

I never used part clipping until I saw what was possible with it.

Most good looking rockets could not be built without it. I also see a lot of people posting here who use mods and yet say

clipping is cheating.

MJ

This is the correct answer. My Open Source Construction Techniques for Craft Aesthetics thread would be awfully sparse if people didn't use clipping.

[Madrias]

I have no problems with part clipping. I tend to do it to make vehicles look right, rather than to make advantages for myself. You know, stuff like clipping the bicoupler and two fuel tanks into a Structural fuselage so I can fill the gap in the middle. Strapping two engines side-by-side in a situation where the game says "You can't do that, even though nothing's touching it." I have used it to clip things like cockpits into a node covered by something else, or to drop a reaction wheel inside a structural part.

I follow a couple simple guidelines with clipping: Fuel tanks can't be clipped into, but they can clip with other parts. Burying antennas is fair game. Cockpits that need stronger SAS can have more SAS wheels clipped in through the bottom. And most importantly, I follow a logical rule of 3 intakes per engine.

[Redrobin]

I clip all the things. I would be nowhere without clipping.

[Voculus]

I usually clip parts for aesthetics. For instance, putting batteries inside a plane fuselage, rather than glued to the outside. I don't stack intakes or wings, because that takes the challenge out of it for me, and the textures fighting for dominance on the screen look awful, to boot! With that said, I don't give any thought to what parts people clip or not. It's their money, their time, and their business.

[makinyashikino]

don't let anyone tell you you're having fun the wrong way.

This needs to be posted in every single 23.5 engine argument thread

[sdj64]

I think that engine clusters are fine as long as the nozzles aren't overlapping, and a certain amount of clipping on spaceplanes is necessary to have it still look like a plane. Also useful when making replicas of real world rockets. But all of my regular science gathering missions on career mode aren't clipped.

[katateochi]

I rarely enable part clipping in the debug menu, but I use part clipping a lot. Some things clip without issue, others can be made to clip by doing some slight of hand with the editor (like attaching a part to another part first and then moving it, or rotating it back and forth a couple times).

The only time I use the debug menu for clipping is when (usually in the SPH) a part will attach if you don't have symmetry on, but refuses to attach on the other side when you enable symmetry (usually when attaching jet engines). If after trying to coerce it with rotating and it still wont attach then I'll use the debug menu.

Another trick is to use an SAS module. If you want a part to clip and it won't then first place an SAS module somewhere else and attach the part to the SAS module. Then move the SAS module with the part attached and try to connect that to where the part was refusing to connect, often it will work. It's also a way to get a part that wants to radially attach to stack onto a node that's surrounded by other parts. you do end up with an extra SAS module or two, but sometimes its worth it.

The reason is always for aesthetics. This is a simple craft I've made recently as an Orion replica. To get the fuel section thinner than the pod I put a central tank and then four tanks radially attached but rotated 90 degree so they overlap the inner tank.

You don't gain any advantage except for a nicer appearance, and you can run a greater risk of things exploding when you decoupling stages. So I don't have any problem with clipping, whether its by using the debug menu or not, it just allows for more creative designs.

[Taki117]

If I clip something its because its giving me collision issues (I'm looking at you B9 quad engine mount) or because it does that anyway (without the menu). I have no personal issue with those that use it ( and I couldn't build some of their stuff because of it) but I don't personally use it.

[GusTurbo]

Pictured here, clipping:

[ArmchairGravy]

I don't use it. Seems like cheating to me. If other people do so, it's their game.

[loppnessmonsta]

There's a range of part clipping. Clipping one fuel tank inside another to double its capacity feels cheaty to me, clipping the edges of an engine (not the nozzle) to make an engine cluster does not. But that's just me, I don't care a whole lot about aesthetics.

Basically, if part clipping increases your enjoyment of the game, go ahead and don't let anyone tell you you're having fun the wrong way.

pretty much this. i generally only use part clipping to attach parts that SHOULD be attachable anyway, but for some reason are being stubborn. Sometimes I'll do stuff like what OP did; getting stuff close together for looks. Or engine clusters. I don't like to double stack tanks or engines, though. Feels cheaty to me. But that's okay- I just don't do it. I still like seeing what other people do with it. Lots of cool SSTOs wouldn't be possible without it!

Edited April 11, 2014 by loppnessmonsta

[regex]

You don't gain any advantage except for a nicer appearance, and you can run a greater risk of things exploding when you decoupling stages. So I don't have any problem with clipping, whether its by using the debug menu or not, it just allows for more creative designs.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. I clip when it's convenient, too. My recent Moho lander had an SAS module clipped into a Science Jr. and some small tanks clipped into short girders in order to shorten the whole craft, not only giving more engine clearance but also easing the length of the launch vehicle (the payload in total was ridiculously long).