The mobile processing lab is terrible.

[Superfluous J]

Transmitting anything but crew or EVA reports is usually a sign of bad mission design.

Not if transmitting is a compliment to also bringing it back, unless I'm mistaken. You get pretty much the same benefit to transmitting one copy of a reading and bringing home another, as you get for bringing home two copies. However you don't have to bring 2 capsules if you're transmitting, just an antenna and a solar panel, and enough batteries to not run out of charge during transmission.

[Franklin]

Even the battery isn't necessary really, if you have a single solar panel. Just kick up the timewarp a few notches. Batteries charge faster at higher warps, but transmission doesn't, so you'll eventually 'even out' the drain vs. charge.

[Superfluous J]

Even the battery isn't necessary really, if you have a single solar panel. Just kick up the timewarp a few notches. Batteries charge faster at higher warps, but transmission doesn't, so you'll eventually 'even out' the drain vs. charge.

That always feels cheaty to me, but considering it's to overcome an flaw in the logic of the game ("This is mission control. If you'd sent the WHOLE temperature data at once, that would have helped. But this partial data we got 4 seconds ago led us to a breakthrough so the subsequent data you sent just wasn't that useful.") I suppose it's okay

[federally]

As long as the processing lab is only useful for transmissions it will stay mostly useless. Yes, you can construct fringe cases where it is useful but that is because you designed the mission around the lab to make it useful. You are better off bringing several sets of science bays/goos on a small lander and returning the experiments.

Transmitting anything but crew or EVA reports is usually a sign of bad mission design. The only cases I can think of where returning 100% is not preferable are Eve and Jool descends. You always want a Kerbal for reports and surface samples and if you want to return him to Kerbin (I always do) the science can hitchhike for free anyway.

I quite like the science lab due to it's aesthetics, it is one of the nicer looking stock parts, but I haven't used it even once since it was introduced.

Unless you are using DRE and FAR. Then re entering the atmosphere with some goofy ass ship covered in science modules just doesn't work.

[Superfluous J]

Yes, you can construct fringe cases where it is useful but that is because you designed the mission around the lab to make it useful. You are better off bringing several sets of science bays/goos on a small lander and returning the experiments.

Unless you are using DRE and FAR. Then re entering the atmosphere with some goofy ass ship covered in science modules just doesn't work.

You don't bring those extra goos and jr's home. You take the data from them and toss the containers like so many cigarette butts.

[Col_Jessep]

Not if transmitting is a compliment to also bringing it back, unless I'm mistaken. You get pretty much the same benefit to transmitting one copy of a reading and bringing home another, as you get for bringing home two copies. However you don't have to bring 2 capsules if you're transmitting, just an antenna and a solar panel, and enough batteries to not run out of charge during transmission.

Good point but if you go for 'transmit one, bring one back' you still don't need the lab... =D

I think the lab weights the same as 7 sets of bays/goo. You need to bring at least two Kerbals, it's large and 2.5m diameter which makes impossible to build a small vehicle. Not to mention you will be doing a lot of rendezvous and docking, waiting for the experiments to be cleaned and analyzed, pumping fuel around, refilling RCS...

It's not worth the effort imo.

Unless you are using DRE and FAR. Then re entering the atmosphere with some goofy ass ship covered in science modules just doesn't work.

I have played RSS with FAR, DRE, KW and stock career and had no such issues. Re-entry into Kerbin's atmo is a no problem since you can put all the science in your capsule and there are no other planets with biomes and an atmosphere. I assume nobody who plays with FAR and DRE builds 'goofy ass' ships to begin with...

Besides, I'm commenting on stock balance. I don't see how FAR and DRE play into this.

[Superfluous J]

Good point but if you go for 'transmit one, bring one back' you still don't need the lab... =D

True. I agree that the lab is useless 95% of the time. But if you take it to Mun and Minmus it's worth it. That puts it in the "super marginal" category but doesn't make it completely useless.

I think the lab weights the same as 7 sets of bays/goo. You need to bring at least two Kerbals, it's large and 2.5m diameter which makes impossible to build a small vehicle. Not to mention you will be doing a lot of rendezvous and docking, waiting for the experiments to be cleaned and analyzed, pumping fuel around, refilling RCS...

I did this in my LP (I think it may have even been you doing the flying of the lander ) and with GoodSpeed fuel pumps it was quite easy. And who doesn't need practice docking? I sure do! I found that if you dock, start the cleaning, let the pumps fill your tanks, you are physically incapable of getting out of the pod, collecting the science, and carrying it to your return vehicle before everything's done and then you're going back down to the surface.

If you're going to land in 7+ Mun biomes you're going to either have a HUGE fuel tank or be doing lots of docking anyway.

[Aragosnat]

True. I agree that the lab is useless 95% of the time. But if you take it to Mun and Minmus it's worth it. That puts it in the "super marginal" category but doesn't make it completely useless.

I did this in my LP (I think it may have even been you doing the flying of the lander ) and with GoodSpeed fuel pumps it was quite easy. And who doesn't need practice docking? I sure do! I found that if you dock, start the cleaning, let the pumps fill your tanks, you are physically incapable of getting out of the pod, collecting the science, and carrying it to your return vehicle before everything's done and then you're going back down to the surface.

If you're going to land in 7+ Mun biomes you're going to either have a HUGE fuel tank or be doing lots of docking anyway.

Big fuel tanks I like to have on with them. I also like making the science labs into orbiting stations that act as fuel dumps. So it is a win win either way for my play style.

[KerbMav]

Anyone up for a bit of testing?

Fly somewhere (with a lab) and do an experiment twice that gives lots of science (bigger numbers for less invisible "behind the comma" stuff in the game).

Quicksave.

Return the capsule and the science gizmo both holding one instance of the experiment, note science points received and remaining in research center.

Quickload.

Transmit one instance, return the second, note science points received and remaining in research center.

Quickload.

Process and transmit one instance, return the second, note science points received and remaining in research center.

Log in here and share the data.

[KerbMav]

Noone? OK, did it myself then.

All tests were done on launchpad (LP), flying in high atmosphere (FL) at, in space near Kerbin (SP):

- transmission/laboratory compares a double return mission to a return mission with a preceding /processed transmission

- lab advantage compares the lab value to a preceding simple transmission value

The labs usefulness varies for each experiment and processing seems to only really be an advantage if the amount of science is significantly large enough for the percentage added to the transmission to net any value.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e1rryfs9gq5h3x8/MhOqeQtr8p

Goo LP Mat LP Atmo LP Temp LP Atmo FL Goo SP Mat SP Temp SP Grav SP

return 3,0 7,5 6,0 2,4 14,0 10,0 25,0 8,0 20,0
return 0,7 1,6 1,0 0,0 2,3 2,3 5,5 0,0 1,8
sum 3,7 9,1 7,0 2,4 16,3 12,3 30,5 8,0 21,8

transm. 0,9 1,5 2,1 1,2 4,9 3,0 5,0 4,0 8,0
transm. 0,1 0,1 0,1 0,0 0,3 0,3 0,3 0,0 0,3
sum 1,0 1,6 2,2 1,2 5,2 3,3 5,3 4,0 8,3

process 1,4 2,3 3,2 1,8 7,3 4,5 7,5 6,0 12,0
process 0,2 0,2 0,3 0,0 1,8 0,6 10,6 0,0 0,7
sum 1,6 2,5 3,5 1,8 9,1 5,1 18,1 6,0 12,7

transm. 0,9 1,5 2,1 1,2 4,9 3,0 5,0 4,0 8,0
return 2,3 6,3 4,3 1,2 9,9 7,7 21,1 4,0 12,7
sum 3,2 7,8 6,4 2,4 14,8 10,7 26,1 8,0 20,7

process 1,4 2,3 3,2 1,8 7,3 4,5 7,5 6,0 12,0
return 2,0 5,7 3,4 0,6 7,9 6,5 19,1 2,0 9,1
sum 3,4 8,0 6,6 2,4 15,2 11,0 26,6 8,0 21,1

transm. 86,49% 85,71% 91,43% 100,00% 90,80% 86,99% 85,57% 100,00% 94,95%

process 91,89% 87,91% 94,29% 100,00% 93,25% 89,43% 87,21% 100,00% 96,79%

labadv. 6,25% 2,56% 3,12% 0,00% 2,70% 2,80% 1,92% 0,00% 1,93%

If someone can tell me how to display calc sheets in the forum ... ?

Edited April 28, 2014 by KerbMav