Surviving the radiation....

[Everten P.]

We should know that the trip from Earth to Mars is incredibly dangerous mainly due to radiation. So go to paint, photoshop,etc. and build me a ship that can go to mars and not give the pilots massive radiation poisoning. I also dont care if it needs to be rocket'ed into space, pretend that a space elevator is bringing up the materials.

[Tery215]

how bad is a heck-ton of poo?

it probably will resist massive radiation poisoning

[xcorps]

Part A+ Part B= ship not giving you radiation poison.

Part A + Part B = SUN GIVING YOU RADIATION POISONING.

Part A + Part B + lots of parts protecting you from radiation poisoning= Mars super duper space ship.

[rpayne88]

A sphere with approx. 10m thick lead walls covering 5m thick reinforced concrete walls. Shielding crew members from radiation is not that difficult. The challenge is getting said ship into orbit without breaking the bank.

[Nuke]

just take your iodine pills and call me when/if you survive. [/north korea]

[YNM]

IMO a trip to Mars should be only a couple times more dangerous than living on the ISS. Also, not all part of the EM radiation is dangerous to humans, and Mars is farther than the Sun so the Sun's flux is smaller (only 43% than on Earth, not counting that we have atmosphere through).

[xcorps]

Well, according to the Curiosity rover, an astronaut who did a round trip to Mars would get exposed to 0.66 Sieverts. The normal daily radiation dose received by the average person living on Earth is 10 microsieverts (0.00001 sievert).

On the ISS 6 month mission, an astronaut gets from 50-2000 microSieverts. It's just a hair more than a "couple times".

50 mSv: The U.S. 10 C.F.R. § 20.1201(a)(1)(i) occupational dose limit, total effective dose equivalent, per annum

0.50 Sv: The U.S. 10 C.F.R. § 20.1201(a)(2)(ii) occupational dose limit, shallow-dose equivalent to skin, per annum

0.67 Sv: highest dose received by a worker responding to the Fukushima emergency

[ZetaX]

IMO a trip to Mars should be only a couple times more dangerous than living on the ISS. Also, not all part of the EM radiation is dangerous to humans, and Mars is farther than the Sun so the Sun's flux is smaller (only 43% than on Earth, not counting that we have atmosphere through).

No, the ISS is protected by earth's magnetic field. Mars and the space inbetween obviously aren't.

[maccollo]

Well, according to the Curiosity rover, an astronaut who did a round trip to Mars would get exposed to 0.66 Sieverts. The normal daily radiation dose received by the average person living on Earth is 10 microsieverts (0.00001 sievert).

On the ISS 6 month mission, an astronaut gets from 50-2000 microSieverts. It's just a hair more than a "couple times".

According to this document the daily dose for astronauts on board the ISS is about 0.4 mSv, or about 73 mSv for half a year.

The document is from 2007, but it is very close to what was reported from Curiosity.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070010704.pdf

Table 5 on page 23 says the daily dose in interplanetary space would be about 1.7 mSv per day, and on the surface of Mars it would be about 0.7 mSv per day. The 1000 day puts the total effective dose at 1.07 Sv, so it's about 2.7 times the dose you would take if you stayed on the Space station for 1000 days.

Edited May 10, 2014 by maccollo

[YNM]

My figures haven't counted that we have magnetic field on Earth and atmosphere.

Also, a couple is 2, but can be used up to 5.

[xcorps]

According to this document the daily dose for astronauts on board the ISS is about 0.4 mSv, or about 73 mSv for half a year.

The document is from 2007, but it is very close to what was reported from Curiosity.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070010704.pdf

Table 5 on page 23 says the daily dose in interplanetary space would be about 1.7 mSv per day, and on the surface of Mars it would be about 0.7 mSv per day. The 1000 day puts the total effective dose at 1.07 Sv, so it's about 2.7 times the dose you would take if you stayed on the Space station for 1000 days.

Your numbers are probably more accurate, I got mine from Space.com

[HeadHunter67]

Actually, the poo thing isn't just a goofy, made up idea. I was reading Packing for Mars by Mary Roach, and she mentioned that this is actually one of the concepts they've considered for interplanetary travel. The waste has to go somewhere - might as well use it as radiation shielding.

[lajoswinkler]

just take your iodine pills and call me when/if you survive. [/north korea]

Is this a joke? Because those pills have nothing to do with this...

[MC.STEEL]

Is this a joke? Because those pills have nothing to do with this...

Shhh. they dont do anything but dont tell that to the astronauts. [/north korea]

Seriously though is a magnetic shield a good idea?

[maccollo]

Shhh. they dont do anything but dont tell that to the astronauts. [/north korea]

Seriously though is a magnetic shield a good idea?

There is a EU research project (RS2S) which is about answering that very question. They will assess the viability of active radiation shielding using superconductors.

If it is determined to be viable they plan to "Design a realistic configuration to be used on the short term to design demonstration units of active shields for exploration"

http://sr2s.eu/2013-08-01-15-34-14

[Everten P.]

Anyone make a design yet?

[xcorps]

Anyone make a design yet?

I thought the second post in the thread pretty much nailed it?

[xenomorph555]

A while ago rutherford labs, announced and showed of the an electromagnetic shield that repelled radiation like the earth. It was small but they said they could enlarge it.

[Skyler4856]

A combination of passive and active systems. The habitation chambers would be inside of your life support stores (food, water, fecal matter, hydroponic farms, etc), and inside of the Habitation module, a semi-strong electro-magnet would be powered during hours of intensified solar storms.

[Sirrobert]

Way I understand it water is a very good radiation shield.

Acording to XKCD, a few centimeters of water is enough to shield you from highly radioactive materials. So wouldn't something like that work?

[cantab]

Why complicate the design?

[Everten P.]

Haha. Brilliant!

[ThirdHorseman]

Way I understand it water is a very good radiation shield.

Acording to XKCD, a few centimeters of water is enough to shield you from highly radioactive materials. So wouldn't something like that work?

Completely correct. Water makes the best radiation shield:

1) It's transparent. Why would you want to spend the long trip to Mars in the middle of a lead ship, when you could look at the stars through a completely transparent water shield?

2) It's useful. You can use the water shield as your water supply, recycling it to keep the shield mass stable.

3) It makes an excellent radiation shielding material. A passive radiation shield with a density of 5500 kg per square meter would reduce the radiation dose rate inside the ship to 0.5 rem/year...which is equivalent to living in Denver, CO. You can half that and bring the dose levels to 5 rem/year (the allowed dose for workers in the nuclear industry) which I think is quite reasonable, since they will not be spending their entire lives in the ship. To get this level of shielding you need either 1m of slag, a bit more than half a foot of lead (both useless in your trip), or 2.5m of water.

This PDF is an excellent resource for radiation shielding information. While they do say that active (magnetic) shielding is good, I don't think they took into consideration many other variables that make it less attractive such as the complexity of the machinery (requiring cryogenic superconducting conduits, etc), the intense physical stresses placed on the structure by the magnetic field, the requirement for a massive lump of lead at the center of the field (the target for the particles), and others.

I really think water makes the most sense...

[Seret]

The main vote for water is that you need to bring heaps of it with you anyway.

[KerbMav]

If I only could remember that book from years ago (and it was much older even then) of a ship flying to Mars, getting hit by a micro-asteroid and thereby loosing some of their water/fuel? and O2 - their water was also stored in the ships hull as a radiation shield - they improvised a machine to use electrolysis to generate H2 and O2 - but I cannot remember anything else ...

Meaning this idea is already old enough to have found its way into science fiction literature decades ago.