Russia to end ISS participation in 2020, ban rocket engine export to US

[Nibb31]

The Russians plan to detach the new modules to reuse them on OPSEK. The old Zarya and Zvezda are so tightly knitted into the ISS systems and operations that they can't be detached or removed from the USOS without ditching the ISS itself.

Oh, and Zarya actually belongs to the United States, so Russia can't take it back.

[Piwa]

As they say in the Roscosmos, it is better not to extend the operation of the ISS and to direct resources to other cosmic purpose, I'm glad.I do not think we need to ISS after 2020 (My personal opinion).

[YNM]

It's interesting how you call Russia "unfriendly". It's almost as if Russia wasn't provoked to act this way.

I'm no politicians but for sure, with every dividing step, the distance become farther... maybe it's a better way for those to to understand each other first (rather than continually dividing).

It's a bad day for everyone, you know. Now I wonder where would the ISS go after it's demise... creates littering fine ? Make putting things in space harder ?

[Nibb31]

Now I wonder where would the ISS go after it's demise... creates littering fine ? Make putting things in space harder ?

There are plans in place to properly deorbit the ISS into the pacific. Technically, it would be similar to how they currently reboost the station with a Progress, only in the opposite direction.

[NASAFanboy]

There is atleast one person calling for extending the ISS to 2050...

Whatever the case, the ISS is going to stay up there for another decade

[Streetwind]

Frankly I hope our government has it in them to call the bluff. We should be building the engine here, keep the jobs and taxes at home, and not be relying on a state-corporation of a government which is increasing unfriendly (to everyone) That means pressing forward with commercial crew with as much speed as safety allows, but so be it.

Frankly your government started it, and had the counter coming - with Elon Musk nicely helping to escalate the issue to the best of his abilities, since he's probably the only one who could possibly benefit from this mess. Space cooperation between NASA and Roscosmos was supposed to be kept independent of other national interests, and it was, until the USA decided to sanction it anyway for no particular reason.

The interesting thing is: if you split the ISS as it currently exists into the russian segment and the US segment, then the russian segment lives on independently and the US segment just dies. That's the way the modules and support structures are laid out, and it's something people should keep in mind. I think the USA are not really in the position to "call a bluff" in this case. Not if they're the ones pokering higher stakes.

As an European myself, whose agencies have already committed fully to an ISS 2024 lifetime extension and are interested in a 2028 one, and whose investments are distributed all over the station, I'd really appreciate it if both USA and Russia could stop ruining it for everyone else involved.

[Dodgey]

I'm with you Streetwind, as an Australian whoes county has very little if no involvement in the space industry at this present stage I would politely as both Russia and the US to stop behaving like little children and remember that they are not the only people whoses their decisions affect.

[YNM]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/05/14/nasa_and_the_iss_russia_threatens_to_abandon_international_space_effort.html

Politics intervening science and exploration. An irony that the statement was made when a Soyuz returned both America and Russian astronauts.

Why can't it be the agreement to cooperate be kept forever, rather than keeping the duel eternal ?

The article is neutral through, looking from both point of view but mainly from space exploration (and science) side.

[Soda Popinski]

This is a statement made by a politician personally under US Sanctions (as are many of Putin's close friends). Nothing official has come out of Roscosmos. 2020 is a long ways away politically. My guess is it will be smoothed out by then.

That said, a new Russian station specifically to support deep space missions would be amazing.

BTW: I'm actually American, don't believe my icon/forum handle.

[Raven.]

This is a statement made by a politician personally under US Sanctions (as are many of Putin's close friends). Nothing official has come out of Roscosmos. 2020 is a long ways away politically. My guess is it will be smoothed out by then.

That said, a new Russian station specifically to support deep space missions would be amazing.

BTW: I'm actually American, don't believe my icon/forum handle.

The statement is also coming at a time when the leaderships of both the US and Russia are not getting along. I am of the thought of "Let 'em go for it." With the ban on rocket engine imports, the US will just make their own (and open up more jobs and boost the economy while we're at it). Me personally I think that SpaceX could feel that gap rather nicely.

And, I smell another space race coming.

[Comrade Jenkens]

And, I smell another space race coming.

Hopefully the EU is a player this time. Unlikely though. :/

[Soda Popinski]

The statement is also coming at a time when the leaderships of both the US and Russia are not getting along. I am of the thought of "Let 'em go for it." With the ban on rocket engine imports, the US will just make their own (and open up more jobs and boost the economy while we're at it). Me personally I think that SpaceX could feel that gap rather nicely.

I was thinking specifically of the end of Russian participation in 2020. While I think SpaceX can get people up there, it won't help with modules that Russians will remove.

[koshelenkovv]

The interesting thing is: if you split the ISS as it currently exists into the russian segment and the US segment, then the russian segment lives on independently and the US segment just dies. That's the way the modules and support structures are laid out, and it's something people should keep in mind.

Not really.

Do not forget a fact that Zarya is owned by US, not by Russia. Detached Russian part will consist of Zvezda, two airlocks and tiny Rassvet lab module. Approx. 1/3 of old Mir station. Definitely not very useful for making science.

On the other hand, USOS does have life support for a crew of three, but it lacks reboost capability (and NASA cannot control ancient Zarya). US have the Interim Control Module completed and stored, but launching it and docking with ISS could turn out to be non-trivial task. Other option is to contract some more ATVs from ESA.

ISS split up is lose-lose outcome for both parties, but not definite end to any of them.

[HeadHunter67]

The interesting thing is: if you split the ISS as it currently exists into the russian segment and the US segment, then the russian segment lives on independently and the US segment just dies.

The really interesting thing is how wrong you actually are. The Russians own Zvezda, Pirs, Poisk and Rassvet - hardly a "station" to any spacefaring nation. The USOS would hardly "die out", as life support is provided by the Tranquility node, and the station is powered by the solar panels on the truss.

While the ROS currently handles guidance, navigation and control, that doesn't mean that Zvezda is the only means for doing so.

[Drunken Hobo]

If only the NASA & Roscosmos had the same rule as KSP forums - no arguing about politics!

[Albert VDS]

I would say have fun trying to get a replacement for the large US photovoiltec array.

The reality of the whole matter is that the only thing Roscomos has going is Soyuz and the JOINT effort of the ISS. Exomars has a high chance of ending up like Phobos-Grunt and beyond that they only have some random non-funded ideas.

It's in their best intrest, and anyone else involved, to stay in the ISS.

Their other option is to return to their MIR way of doing things, and that thing was a deathtrap in it's final years.

Unless the magically get enough funding.

[ThinkOutsideTheHangar]

I do believe the ISS will be deorbited sometime around 2020-2030 at the end of its lifetime, so it a no brainier that Russia will drop out when 2020 comes. Hopefully stations during reentry look like what they are in ksp. A 100 billion dollar set of space fireworks, anyone?

- - - Updated - - -

Hopefully the EU is a player this time. Unlikely though. :/

Nah, probably between India and China.

[koshelenkovv]

I would say have fun trying to get a replacement for the large US photovoiltec array.

Zvezda have it's own array. It does not take much power to feed Zvezda itself, tiny lab and airlocks.

It's in their best intrest, and anyone else involved, to stay in the ISS.

Their other option is to return to their MIR way of doing things, and that thing was a deathtrap in it's final years.

Unless the magically get enough funding.

Funding is not a problem if there is political will. Just shake more money out of citizens or reroute some from other megaprojects. There is no democracy here.

Problem lies in a massive lack of experience, knowledge and expertise, because most of those people who were engaged in space engineering years ago are now retired, emigrated, dead or changed occupation and almost no new men came to replace them.

What's why Fobos-Grunt fails, Proton made fireworks, Angara rocket still not flew after 20 years of development, 3 GLONASS satellites were delivered to the ocean bottom etc. And Nauka ISS module was delayed again, to 2017. (10 years delay in total).

Edited May 14, 2014 by koshelenkovv

[HeadHunter67]

Zvezda have it's own array. It does not take much power to feed Zvezda itself, tiny lab and airlocks.

Exactly - which means it limits how big the station can become. I am sure Russia doesn't want to pull out of the ISS just so they can fly "Mini-Mir".

[Jas1126]

I don't know a lot about this but it seems that Russia is cutting themselves off from a lot of income? Why? Just so that they don't support America's militaristic progress? Don't they realize that somebody else will step in? Their Ban will do nothing more than lose them money, it seems. It won't affect America in the least.

I would assume that the American Government planned for this. Or at the very least, is already planning ahead.

Again, I know very little about this. Just seems odd that they would do this when it changes nothing for the US (at least in the long term) and only costs them income.

[xenomorph555]

Exactly - which means it limits how big the station can become. I am sure Russia doesn't want to pull out of the ISS just so they can fly "Mini-Mir".

As long as each module has some solar panels the structure can keep expanding, of course not all the modules do but to get an idea look back to mir or future chinese station. As for mini-mir, in my opinion it would be better for each agency to have a cheap small station to fulfil their needs, its cheaper and less complex (technology and politically).

[Duxwing]

You need to update your information, because virtually all of it is out of date.

US Court injunction on importing engines: Rescinded - will require proof that the money is getting to one of the sanctioned parties to be re-instated.

The use of the already delivered engine was never banned, only acquiring new ones.

Sanction article: http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/40444us-sanctions-against-russia-sowing-confusion-caution-among-space-firms

Original ban article: http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/40447us-court-ruling-halts-purchases-of-atlas-5-rocket-engines-from-russia

Ban being lifted: http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/40509judge-lifts-temporary-ban-on-rd-180-engine-purchases

Yesterday/Today: Russian DPM Rogozin did indeed call for Russia banning co-operation with the US in Space: http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/40547rogozin-calls-for-ban-on-us-military-use-of-rd-180

And finally, no, they were about to agree to run the ISS through 2028: http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/37460us-russia-close-to-completing-technical-assessment-of-flying-iss-through

Thanks for the prodigious outpouring of facts!

Frankly I hope our government has it in them to call the bluff. We should be building the engine here, keep the jobs and taxes at home, and not be relying on a state-corporation of a government which is increasing unfriendly (to everyone) That means pressing forward with commercial crew with as much speed as safety allows, but so be it.

I agree that Russia is so compromised as to be an unacceptable vendor; whereas I disagree that the US should launch only US-built rockets because were trade free-enough, someone would seize the opportunity to make millions by reverse-engineering rocket parts.

Ooh! What if the UN kept things for such crises as this one? E.g., extra keys for important locks?

-Duxwing

[Starwaster]

On the other hand, USOS does have life support for a crew of three, but it lacks reboost capability (and NASA cannot control ancient Zarya).

Wouldn't be a problem for 70s NASA.

[Jeff Bird]

So the Soviets are threatening to takes theirs toys away and go home.

Good riddance, we'll see how long the Soviet space program last after US dollars go away. Unless they make fiends with Red China. All the Soviet modules connected to the Freedom Space Station. Will sleep with the fishes. Just like Mir.

[shynung]

So the Soviets are threatening to takes theirs toys away and go home.

Good riddance, we'll see how long the Soviet space program last after US dollars go away. Unless they make fiends with Red China. All the Soviet modules connected to the Freedom Space Station. Will sleep with the fishes. Just like Mir.

The Soviets are already dead. There is only Russia now.