How will budget work?

[KerbMav]

What is officially planned(!) is, that we will have money, reputation and science which will be interchangable and that we will gain money and reputation from contracts which will pop up according to the player's tech level and/or current achievements.

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I gather we will use science to unlock science nodes, pay for development of a part in these nodes and pay for the parts we actually use in our crafts (when pressing launch most likely). Reputation will be used for hiring kerbonauts I think.

Recovering parts from returned/safely landed stages/planes was not officially mentioned yet I think, but nothing stops you from reusing your plane, just park it way of the runway so it does not get cleared by the next one.

[A rocket launched and paid should in my opinion be refundable as long as it is not actually launched or moved out of the launchpad area, as we cannot climb up and attach a part we forgot in the VAB.]

[Jas1126]

I would like it if we could gain some resources back from recovered tanks released before we leave Kerbin. Meaning that the first stage is released (each tank equipped with a parachute) and if that "Debris" landed safely then we recover a small amount of currency for their recovery.

[Kasuha]

Will there be any advantage to reusing rockets and spaceplanes. Building a rocket is more expensive but if we can save money by getting it back it could be worth it.

To be honest I completely fail to see any disadvantages of reusable rockets/planes once we get money in one form or another. To the point that I think they should be nerfed somehow to make expendable rocket programs also attractive.

[Kasuha]

I wish they would reconsider converting other sources of income into science. Unless they have some plan to exponentially raise science requirements then one could fill the entire tree in no time. Making the idea of science points pointless. Maybe I'm just not fully understanding how the system is going to work. I read that all forms of currency could be converted back and forth.

Edit: I suppose the unlocking of the tree would make little difference if each part had to be bought individually from the science nodes. Is that how it's going to work?

Exchange rates might be 1:1 in one direction and 1:1000 in the other direction. But I don't think buying science points should be completely removed for the theoretical case when you deplete all science in the system for money and then find out you still need to advance in tech tree.

Parts now have (internally, in config files) two prices, one clearly intended as "research" and other as "manufacturing" price. So yes, it is likely you'll need to pay some amount to be able to start using a part, then another amount every time you want to add that part to a rocket.

[TMS]

The chances of the budget system being sophisticated for 0.24 are pretty much minimal.

If they're starting from scratch as a means of adding something to the contracts system, I would expect it to be pretty sparse. Expect payments for contracts and a simple overpowered budget of some sort to spend on your builds.

I'd like to think that craft recovery would be factored in for reimbursement, but I wouldn't bank on it (pun intended).

[Tw1]

To contest an earlier point, I don't think either approach (budget per time versus money pool) is going to challenge an experienced player, especially if all these cries for reusability/reclamation helping with budgets in some way are taken seriously. Budget per time will certainly put a damper in some people's plans, dragging out certain large missions to the point of tedium (though not necessarily being an afront to sandbox gameplay) since it relies on the timewarp mechanic, but that's unavoidable, I suppose.

I didn't see budget per time/per launch as part of a challenge, more of an immersion adding factor- but that's a good point.

To be honest I completely fail to see any disadvantages of reusable rockets/planes once we get money in one form or another. To the point that I think they should be nerfed somehow to make expendable rocket programs also attractive.

Idk, I what's the largest mass anyone's brought to space by SSTO? Multi stage lifters can lift larger payloads. That's surely an advantage.

I do like the system you propose, it's not far of what i meant by having contracts "top up" the budget. Personally, I'd have an ethical quam about selling science points, but it is just a game..

Maybe selling them at a low price would improve your reputation more rapidly. There we go, more complexity.

I hope it isn't too simple in the long run, that would be a little boring.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Tw1

[Guest]

I didn't see budget per time/per launch as part of a challenge, more of an immersion adding factor- but that's a good point.

I was addressing Streetwind's post about Mission Controller Extended and its money pool system.

Another problem I see with budget per time is that it hampers the frantic pace of players who like to run many missions at one time. While any type of budget will certainly limit that sort of thing, a budget per time system is always limiting to those players.

On the other side of the coin, a money pool system will eventually be pointless due to amassed wealth.

[Jas1126]

I may be alone in this opinion but:

Considering that the entire tree can be opened with just the Kerbin system, why bother with science at all? And not even the entire Kerbin system. Just a couple of missions to Minmus alone can open most of the tree (Stock). Heck, just one well planned mission to Minmus (crew reports, soil samples and orbital science gains (no science parts even needed)) could open most of the tree. Are they planning on increasing the science requirements for nodes?

[Guest]

I may be alone in this opinion but:

Considering that the entire tree can be opened with just the Kerbin system, why bother with science at all? And not even the entire Kerbin system. Just a couple of missions to Minmus alone can open most of the tree (Stock). Heck, just one well planned mission to Minmus (crew reports, soil samples and orbital science gains (no science parts even needed)) could open most of the tree. Are they planning on increasing the science requirements for nodes?

Since, presumably, contracts are completely optional and the player can exchange science for money, removing science would remove a valid gameplay option.

[Superfluous J]

I may be alone in this opinion but:

Considering that the entire tree can be opened with just the Kerbin system, why bother with science at all? And not even the entire Kerbin system. Just a couple of missions to Minmus alone can open most of the tree (Stock). Heck, just one well planned mission to Minmus (crew reports, soil samples and orbital science gains (no science parts even needed)) could open most of the tree. Are they planning on increasing the science requirements for nodes?

I've always assumed that they're adding all the stuff now, and will balance it when done. Why rebalance everything during every step of the process? That'd be like making sure all the 2-by-4s were smoothly sanded before putting up the drywall.

We can always mod(ulemanager) down science points. I've done just that and am having a hoot.

[MKI]

So how do you guys think the budget system will work in 0.24? Will you have finite dollars to work with on individual missions, such that if you have a mission failure you have to go back to easier, lower cost missions? Or will budget be like science points and never lost - completing contracts simply grants a higher budget allowance?

I feel budgets should have 4 parts related to them.

1. Buying parts to build things to use, IE pay for engines, fuel tanks, SRBS.

2. Re-using parts that you recover, so SSTO's become effective after a high initial investment.

3. Utilized in Contracts to provide alternative ways of getting Science/Reputation.

4. Gain more funds via the contract system.(sell science to gain more, complete goals that reward funds)

This is probably the most interesting way to utilize the contract system and the 3 resources to create a dynamic Career mode. That will present a player with the challenge of funding their program, repercussions of failure of their program, rewards for mission completions and choices on how to further their advancements.