[0.24] Spaceplane Plus 1.3

[Drew Kerman]

Added that module to the VNG part...

Wait no, you add the module to the cockpit part, like I have in my example I added it to the MK1 Squad cockpit part. Now when you click the part in the VAB/SPH action menu screen you can set "Eject" as an action to Abort and stuff. You no longer attach the parachute box part thing

[ArcFurnace]

These lovely heat-shielded spaceplane parts and a microwave thermal turbojet from KSP Interstellar are all sorts of fun when combined.

I named it Firefly for its luminescent rear end.

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[Angelo Kerman]

I finally flew my first successful spaceplane using this mod:

here you can see the open service bay, which is crammed full of stuff (so that the plane's exterior isn't cluttered). Normally, the service bay stays closed during flight. The plane uses its RAPIER engines get partway into orbit. When the switch over to rocket mode, the nuclear engine on the back kicks in. The RAPIER engines burnout about halfway to orbital velocity, but the nuke finishes the job with delta-v to spare. With Porkjet's generous pointers on how to make parts for KSP, I'm building my own nuclear engine for the plane:

I'm using the stock NTR as a placeholder to test the module I'm writing, but as you can see, I'm building a 3D model for it as well. I'm hoping to make something that will complement Porkjet's artistic style so that it'll blend in.

[TheReaper]

Imgur is easy to use...

This is how you post an album from imgur.

[ imgur ] wwPmC [ /imgur ]

No spaces ^Album code from imgur album

https://imgur.com/a/wwPmC

---------------------^Code for imgur album post, if you have a # at the end do not put the # in there you don't need it.

thank you mate,i appericiate it

[Bomoo]

Skylon may have inspired this just a tad.

[RoboRay]

i want to thank RoboRay for his awesome wing idea that gave me the inspriation

LOL, I opened the thread and thought "That looks familiar."

My own design was somewhat inspired by SpaceShip One.

Edited June 17, 2014 by RoboRay

[Starwaster]

I finally flew my first successful spaceplane using this mod:

http://www.spellflight.com/WIPS/screenshot8.png

here you can see the open service bay, which is crammed full of stuff (so that the plane's exterior isn't cluttered). Normally, the service bay stays closed during flight. The plane uses its RAPIER engines get partway into orbit. When the switch over to rocket mode, the nuclear engine on the back kicks in. The RAPIER engines burnout about halfway to orbital velocity, but the nuke finishes the job with delta-v to spare. With Porkjet's generous pointers on how to make parts for KSP, I'm building my own nuclear engine for the plane:

http://www.spellflight.com/WIPS/Mk2NuclearAerospikeWip.png

I'm using the stock NTR as a placeholder to test the module I'm writing, but as you can see, I'm building a 3D model for it as well. I'm hoping to make something that will complement Porkjet's artistic style so that it'll blend in.

Those engine stats are way overpowered especially for stock propellants. 250 EC per second is also too high. Thats a God engine.

[Angelo Kerman]

Those engine stats are way overpowered especially for stock propellants. 250 EC per second is also too high. Thats a God engine.

I pulled the stats from the LANTRN engine, which has a thrust of 67kn with hydrogen, and 184kn with LOX "afterburner" mode, then doubled the stats because the part is essentially two engines. I thought that was in the realm of the stock nuclear's 60kn, which should be liquid fuel only, and is only liquid fuel/oxidizer because Squad didn't want to make liquid fuel tanks at the time.

[TheScareCake!]

Well, i would love to see mk3 parts reworked as i dont have any fuel tanks and cargo bays with mk3 that i could use to build a shuttle...

[VaporTrail]

Depends on the mass of the engine really... That page you list doesn't list an engine mass for the LANTR engine... but lists the NERVA at 10 tons... The stock LV-N in KSP is listed as less than a quarter of that... 2.25 tons instead of 10, with the same 60kN thrust rating.

As long as the mass/thrust and ISP of the partare in line with the stock (even if they're a little over) I can't see that engine being too overpowered. Probably want to look at between 6 and 8 tons though.

The 250 Ec/Sec in generator mode is hellishly strong though... you're producing as much Ec as more than twenty-six tons of radioisotope generators (PB-NUK)... and you get thrust out of it too... 25 Ec/sec is probably plenty

I'd love to see a mk2 compatible Thermal receiver for KSPI, or even a conformal (if inefficient) MW receiver.

[Angelo Kerman]

I agree that the engine mass needs to be in line with the thrust. I'll have to calculate the T/W ratio of the stock LV-N and use a similar value. I didn't think the EC was out of line given that KSPI has 1000 EC for their generators, and you can't generate power while under thrust, but I am still tweaking the engine.

A Mk2 compatible thermal receiver and MW receiver would be cool, I'll look at that too unless Porkjet is going to make those. Really, I'm making spaceplane parts because at the moment I don't know what else to make, and I am learning how to make parts for KSP. Heck, with the right texturing, my nuclear aerospike could be a combined thermal aerospike/thermal receiver/radiator.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Angel-125

[VaporTrail]

Thing is, with KSPI, you're using the reactor for thermal power, which either goes to an engine for thrust generation, or to a generator for electrical generation, with the side effect of waste heat generated. And KSPI reactors can produce literally hundreds of times the Ec your engine/generator does (again, with the side effect of waste heat, which can literally melt your ship if you don't include enough radiative capability).

Without KSPI installed 250 Ec/Sec is incredibly powerful, compared to the available stock parts. Like I said, twenty six tons of RTGs... That's three-hundred-and-thirty-three RTGs. Without some form of downside (like waste heat) it's a bit more powerful than is truly necessary for a stand-alone part.

Edited June 17, 2014 by VaporTrail

[Gaius]

You shouldn't compare RTG output to larger power generation systems. You'd never put 26 tons of RTGs on something when a single 1 ton nuclear reactor would generate more power for a fraction of the weight. You use an RTG where you only need a trickle of power and don't want to devote half a ton or more of your spacecraft to the power system.

For heavier power generators, compare to something like a SAFE-400 reactor, which weighs half a ton and generates 100kW of electricity (for game purposes, say 100 E/s). In terms of weight/power efficiency, it's literally a couple orders of magnitude better than a PB-NUK-style RTG, but that's reality for you. The advantage of something like a PB-NUK is that it doesn't weigh half a ton, so you use that when you don't need multiple kilowatts of power. That's where the balance lies. Trying to balance larger power generation systems against a wimpy RTG in terms of power per unit of mass is madness.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Gaius

[Angelo Kerman]

You shouldn't compare RTG output to larger power generation systems. You'd never put 26 tons of RTGs on something when a single 1 ton nuclear reactor would generate more power for a fraction of the weight. You use an RTG where you only need a trickle of power and don't want to devote half a ton or more of your spacecraft to the power system.

For heavier power generators, compare to something like a SAFE-400 reactor, which weighs half a ton and generates 100kW of electricity (for game purposes, say 100 E/s). In terms of weight/power efficiency, it's literally a couple orders of magnitude better than a PB-NUK-style RTG, but that's reality for you. The advantage of something like a PB-NUK is that it doesn't weigh half a ton, so you use that when you don't need multiple kilowatts of power. That's where the balance lies. Trying to balance heavier power generation systems against a wimpy RTG in terms of power per unit of mass is madness.

100 EC/sec sounds reasonable for the power generation portion. Also, a TWR of 30 (slightly better than the LV-N) would put my engine at about 12MT. Anyway, I don't want to derail Porkjet's thread, so I'll table the engine for now and start a dev thread.

[VaporTrail]

The thing is, there's nothing in the stock game that requires 250 Ec/sec, and the majority of mods that add exceptionally high power requirement parts also add the methods to generate that power (KSPI and NFP as examples).

Reactors from KSPI and NFP really are in a class by themselves. If you're not using KSPI or NFP power consuming parts, anything that produces large amounts of electricity is going to be hugely overpowered, because there isn't much that will draw enough Ec.

Consider:

From the Kethane mod:

250 Ec/sec will power 8 heavy drills and 4 heavy converter units, simultaneously with plenty EC left over to do pretty much anything else you want (10 Ec/sec). To do this with stock parts would require the aforementioned 333 RTGs, 320 Ox-Stat panels, 120 small tracking solar arrays, or 14 Gigantor solar arrays.

KSPI or NFP reactors cover that with one of the smallest reactors. KSPI SAFE-1500, which is the smallest KSPI fission reactor, punches out 2MW unupgraded, with about 1.5MW usable Ec. That is six times the power... But KSPI also brings in parts that require so much power input (Alcubierre drive, for example) that they have a purpose.

For a stand alone part, 250 Ec/sec and surface to orbit levels of thrust is pretty OP. Now if it's being designed to be used with the KSPI or NFP packs then it gets better... but still on the high side for a part that performs multiple functions IMO.

[Edit] just saw the last reply. Edit for a link to the Dev thread and I'll drop in there.

Edited June 17, 2014 by VaporTrail

[sharpspoonful]

Reddit didn't care, but you guys might!

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[Cetera]

Porkjet, by any chance could you build in a 5-direction RCS thruster for this mod-pack? Right now that's about the only thing I still use B9 for anymore, and it is way too big to justify having it installed for just a couple of parts. The 5-direction RCS is invaluable for space planes, needing just 2 in symmetry rather than 4 to control attitude and direction outside the atmosphere, especially for docking.

[VaporTrail]

Porkjet, by any chance could you build in a 5-direction RCS thruster for this mod-pack? Right now that's about the only thing I still use B9 for anymore, and it is way too big to justify having it installed for just a couple of parts. The 5-direction RCS is invaluable for space planes, needing just 2 in symmetry rather than 4 to control attitude and direction outside the atmosphere, especially for docking.

You might look into RLA Stockalike http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24593-WIP-RLA-Stockalike-0-9-4-released-27th-November?highlight=RLA+stockalike for 2.5 axis RCS. They've got (two different) 5 port RCS parts, as well as 45 degree RCS ports.

They've also got a bunch of different engines, both LFO and monoprop and some other stuff...

Edited June 18, 2014 by VaporTrail

[Starwaster]

Porkjet, I notice that the bicoupler has two bottom01 nodes. They should have unique names for when code needs to isolate a specific identified node.

[Boomerang]

Wait no, you add the module to the cockpit part, like I have in my example I added it to the MK1 Squad cockpit part. Now when you click the part in the VAB/SPH action menu screen you can set "Eject" as an action to Abort and stuff. You no longer attach the parachute box part thing

Thanks for that. I got the module working on the crew cabin but the ejection force is still mostly parallel to the long axis of the part. Like the crew hatch is a cannon rather than a mortar, really. Which is fine. If it's a probably with the orientation of the hatch on the part or some such, I don't expect Porkjet to fix and then re-release the part for one minor incompatibility.

[Noir]

Reddit didn't care, but you guys might!

This mod is differently great for making shuttles.

[Porkjet]

Aw hell yea! Was looking forward to see some SP+ shuttles.

Porkjet, by any chance could you build in a 5-direction RCS thruster for this mod-pack? Right now that's about the only thing I still use B9 for anymore, and it is way too big to justify having it installed for just a couple of parts. The 5-direction RCS is invaluable for space planes, needing just 2 in symmetry rather than 4 to control attitude and direction outside the atmosphere, especially for docking.

To make it short: Yes!

Porkjet, I notice that the bicoupler has two bottom01 nodes. They should have unique names for when code needs to isolate a specific identified node.

Ah! Right. Okidoki.

Thanks for that. I got the module working on the crew cabin but the ejection force is still mostly parallel to the long axis of the part. Like the crew hatch is a cannon rather than a mortar, really. Which is fine. If it's a probably with the orientation of the hatch on the part or some such, I don't expect Porkjet to fix and then re-release the part for one minor incompatibility.

Hmmm I can#t guess what'd cause this. The hatch is oriented correctly, otherwise kerbals wouldn't exit it with their face towards the hatch.

[PlonioFludrasco]

Here's mine!

http://imgur.com/a/l2DPA#2

Edited June 18, 2014 by PlonioFludrasco

[Neutrinovore]

Hmm. The docking port still isn't working for me, it must be a conflict with another of my very many mods.

[Starwaster]

Hmm. The docking port still isn't working for me, it must be a conflict with another of my very many mods.

how is it not working? not attracting? Not attaching?