Is the game becomeing too easy?

[Kasuha]

0.23.5 is easier to play than 0.23 not just because of SLS parts but also (and more importantly) because of improved joints. Parts just hold together in all reasonable situations without any (or with minimum amount of) struts. Easier yes, worse no. Unless you enjoyed flying "rubber jellyfish" as someone called rockets in version 0.12 or so in a recent challenge.

[Guest]

Unless you enjoyed flying "rubber jellyfish" as someone called rockets in version 0.12 or so in a recent challenge.

I always thought "rubber space dong" was a more apt description.

[Skyler4856]

Hopefully the contract system shall offer incentives conducive towards the further exploration of the solar system, also I feel as though the solar system should be scaled up.

[Alias72]

The game is becoming easier. The reason is that the game is becoming more stable. Half the battle used to be defeating game glitches like parts randomly separating. The game will get harder again as it is balanced and features are added. Until then it may get even easier. The thing is, if the game is getting too easy for you, come up with a bigger challenge or install difficulty mods.

[Northstar1989]

Another thing that I can think of that would keep the game from becoming too easy would be a slight adjustment of scale. Currently, KSP is about 1/10th or 1/11th the scale of the real solar system. Maybe making it 1/8th or something scale might tweak the difficulty appropriately. Just a thought

I've been thinking much along the same lines lately, and would really like to see an increase in the scale (maybe to 1/5th- as that would make adjusting the files an easy case for the devs of multiplying all planetary parameters by two), but it's quite explicitly been listed as something that is NEVER going to happen- so you can pretty much forget about it.

The nodes, etc, all fixed obviously broken things that made the game harder than real life. Increasing the scale would fix something that is IMHO obviously broken (jet engines can, for instance, push you nearly to orbit with air-hogging: not so much just because the ISP, velocity curves, etc. are inaccurate, as because orbital velocity is SO DARN LOW with a 1/10th scale Kerbin...) It would also make the game more visually appealing, if you ask me, if planetary curvatures were reduced a bit as a result of having larger diameters...

Stock rocket parts are also currently to approximately 64% scale- so increasing the planetary scale from 10% scale to 20% scale would bring them a bit more in proportion...

Regards,

Northstar

[The Jedi Master]

Kerbal Space Program? Becoming too easy?

Seriously, this game is designed to be hard. If you want to do anything other than explode, you have to learn fast. How experienced are you? It gets easier as you play more.

[SSSPutnik]

I think designing large lifters is now too easy. I don't think it's just me getting better, though certainly that's part of it.

In the past I remember pancaking parts due to excessive thrust, launchpad collapse on application of physics, spinning out of control, rubber jelly fishing, nose diving and other unplanned disassembly.

Now I can whack together a launcher very easily and usually make orbit within 2-3 minor revisions, with only a few struts.

Docking and landing are still very tricky for me though I have landing pretty well ok. Even these are somewhat easier with performance increases making the system more responsive and smoother.

I don't want KSP to be so easy there's no challenge in building. Learning to play the game and playing the game should be different.

I still want launchpad collapses and pancaking etc to happen if I do the wrong thing. I've not seen a collapse in AGES despite some massive ships...

[Umlüx]

if you think KSP is too easy just because the new SLS parts are powerful, then you have way too small payloads my friend

[no] its not easier, you have to dream bigger!

[KSK]

I wouldn't say "too easy" but once you've grasped the basics of orbital mechanics, delta-v and TWR it is fairly straightforward. <snip>

Oh is that all. For a moment I thought this game was going to be easy.

More seriously, the game still has a pretty steep learning (as opposed to wrestling with the interface) curve and I don't think a better interface and bigger parts have changed that. If anything they encourage players to try for more difficult goals, now that getting the requisite tonnage to LKO is a bit more straightforward.

[The Destroyer]

It's easier to do the easier things, but it makes the impossible things possible.

[Redwizard000]

The SLS parts make tiny payloads easier to launch. If you want to launch a Mun mission from one, then yeah it is easier... but that isn't really what they are for. If you are playing in Career mode it costs a lot of science points to unlock them. Once you get to that point you are going to want the SLS rockets to get larger payloads into orbit. This is opposed to the old way of just making a giant pancake rocket, which is basically an exploit of the way the game calculates drag as doing such a thing IRL would be impossible.

You could also think of it in terms of efficiency. Getting a small payload into orbit with an SLS is highly inefficient. You are wasting fuel and other resources, basically overbuilding your launch stage. I imagine this will be a big deal once money and contracts are integrated into the game.

Of course, it really depends on how you want to play the game. It is a sandbox, no one is forcing anyone to use the SLS. I rarely use the SLS boosters, but it is nice that they are there for those times when I need one.

As for other things, the maneuver nodes don't necessarily make the game "easier" they make the game more practical. There is a difference between "difficulty" and "tedious pain in the a--". I can't imagine the frustration of trying to do an interplanetary transfer without the maneuver nodes.

I think that the stronger joints don't count as making things easier or harder, I think they qualify more as a bug fix. It sucks when things snap apart under physics warp.

Overall the game is getting less tedious and more polished, which isn't really the same thing as getting easier. If the game is getting easier for me it is because I am getting better at it. When I first started playing I was excited just to get a rocket into orbit... Now I can do interplanetary trips with relative ease! But I think it has more to do with the 300+ hours I have spent playing the game more than the game itself getting easier.

[Northstar1989]

The SLS parts make tiny payloads easier to launch. If you want to launch a Mun mission from one, then yeah it is easier... but that isn't really what they are for. If you are playing in Career mode it costs a lot of science points to unlock them. Once you get to that point you are going to want the SLS rockets to get larger payloads into orbit. This is opposed to the old way of just making a giant pancake rocket, which is basically an exploit of the way the game calculates drag as doing such a thing IRL would be impossible.

Indeed. I think most players got so involved in their pancake-monstrosities, they forgot that such rockets could NEVER fly in real-life. There's a difference between exploits and realism my friends...

You could also think of it in terms of efficiency. Getting a small payload into orbit with an SLS is highly inefficient. You are wasting fuel and other resources, basically overbuilding your launch stage. I imagine this will be a big deal once money and contracts are integrated into the game.

Nobody would even consider a Moon mission "small" in real life. SLS is entirely appropriate for the Delta-V required for such a mission (just remember how big Saturn V was). What's not appropriate is how little Delta-V it takes to get to orbit in KSP, even with the thick syrup-atmosphere and unrealistic drag model. What the game REALLY needs is a closer scale to reality- like moving it from it's current 10% scale to a 20% or 30% scale... (the reduced planetary curvature would increase minimum orbital velocity) Of course, Squad has already declared that they're NEVER going to do that, because it would make the game "less fun", which is a shame...

Of course, it really depends on how you want to play the game. It is a sandbox, no one is forcing anyone to use the SLS. I rarely use the SLS boosters, but it is nice that they are there for those times when I need one.

Personally, I play with NovaPunch and StretchyTanks. You think SLS is big? Try a 5-meter rocket with StretchyTanks and a Novapunch 5-meter engine!

You quickly learn to think bigger when your rocket parts are bigger- although I'll admit, it takes a few months to really get the hang of. I doubt there will be any complaints about the SLS parts being "Overpowered" a couple months from now, when everybody has gotten used to launching bigger payloads, except from newly-returning players...

And, if you don't allow yourself to build pancake-rockets (I play with that restriction, for instance), then an SLS can't launch half the payload of a 12x4 Rockomax mega-monstrosity...

As for other things, the maneuver nodes don't necessarily make the game "easier" they make the game more practical. There is a difference between "difficulty" and "tedious pain in the a--". I can't imagine the frustration of trying to do an interplanetary transfer without the maneuver nodes.

I think that the stronger joints don't count as making things easier or harder, I think they qualify more as a bug fix. It sucks when things snap apart under physics warp.

Overall the game is getting less tedious and more polished, which isn't really the same thing as getting easier. If the game is getting easier for me it is because I am getting better at it. When I first started playing I was excited just to get a rocket into orbit... Now I can do interplanetary trips with relative ease! But I think it has more to do with the 300+ hours I have spent playing the game more than the game itself getting easier.

I agree wholeheartedly. If you think that bad interface and bugs like wobbly joints is what actually constitutes "difficulty" in a game, then we're not going to see eye-to-eye on ANYTHING, my friends...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited May 26, 2014 by Northstar1989

[StuntMax]

/Me thinks that the main "freebies" that make vanilla KSP way too easy are command pods that require nothing to run and kerbals that can live in them (or on the surface of a planet) for an undefinite timespan with no resources. You can plan a trip to Dres without worrying about a command pod that can sustain them only for something like two days, you don't have to carry along a big enough battery with a *****load of solar panels, you can leave your space dudes on the surface of Duna with a crashed craft "whatever, i'll go and pick them up later... why can't them ride a friggin'bus home like I did when I was their age?".

SLS parts do nothing you can't do with a combination on Rockomax parts, yes, they perform (slightly) better and have a lower part count, but they don't give free access to Eeloo to anyone that otherwise couldn't even fly to Minmus.

Manouver nodes... yes, you can always "blast as soon as you see the mun rising over the horizon"... but can you do it with interplanetary transfers?

Probably yes, but if you have limited time and you can't muck around the orbit waiting for the chance to intercept the damn rock? You could... with an almanac, a slide ruler and equations that take the full width of an A3 sheet... not exactly my idea of fun.

So I voted yes, KSP is too easy, but not for the reasons of the OP.

But the best part of KSP is that there are a whole bunch of mods that allow you to tweak the difficulty... For now, I find it balanced with BTSM + DRE, (and I feel guilty of cheating any time I use KER)

[SSSPutnik]

Real rockets are wobbly, it does need to be accounted for...

The Saturn V had separate computer for correcting wobble.

[Tripzter]

The game is getting 2 easy because you learned how to play it.

[Guest]

Real rockets are wobbly, it does need to be accounted for...

The Saturn V had separate computer for correcting wobble.

The stronger joints represent that separate computer for correcting wobble.

[Victus]

I've only been playing since 0.23 but surely the more you play it the better you get and as for the SLS parts...well I don't use them that often and if I do they're only for LKO/HKO so I can dock quicker.

[ddavis425]

I don't know about too easy but it most certainly is much easier than when I started playing in 0.13.

[Guest]

Are you on serious drugs?

It's gotten a little easier...

But they only made It easier just to make It fun.

Orbiter gets boring because It's TOO real and KSP doesn't want to turn into Orbiter.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Guest

[Special Agent Sigvan]

No, but it getting easier isn't a bad thing, it means that as realistic as KSP is, it's still appealing to the casual (or kasual) player.

It's not bad to not trying to appeal to the Scott Manleys of the world, but instead people who can at least try. I haven't even put anything on the Mun (No I haven't tried to hard either, a bulk of my 160 hour playthrough of KSP was modded with weapon mods to bomb things) yet and I can't even do orbital calculations and I have yet to make any functional space crafts that can get into an orbit around the sun with enough fuel to do anything.

Yet I play KSP, stock and modded.

[Ruinsage]

It's experience that is making it easier for you. Sure, ARM and joint stabilization made an impact, but that only really removed some problems that you had to work around, and made it more profitable to make intuitive rockets.

[katateochi]

Yes it is easier than it was back in 0.15 days, but I don't think that it is too easy by a long shot, there are still plenty of challenges. (I do feel that there are fewer hilarious launch pad explosions these days, but that might also be down to my own experience.)

I have mixed feelings about the manoeuvre nodes. I think they are wonderfully useful and help you make efficient rendezvous manoeuvres, but having them does take away from some learning about orbital mechanics. I had KSP before M-nodes so I had to learn to rendezvous by eye and it gave me such a wonderful ah-ha moment about how two orbits interact, it was one of the biggest "wow, this game teaches me stuff" moments. I feel that with manoeuvre nodes you don't get that particular lesson at all which is a pity. What I'd like to see in the final game is having to earn the tech to have M-nodes by completing a your first rendezvous by-eye (you should also be able to buy the tech with funds you've earned from other missions to keep it accessible to peps who don't want to try by-eye rendezvous).

I don't think it is fair to complain that the stronger joints make the game too easy. Before that change we all complained about wobbly rockets and how KSP should mean the Kerbal Strut Program. Ultimately you could still get basically anything into space (exhibit a; whackjob), if you stitched it together with enough struts, but that was mostly frustrating and tedious. Now you can focus on your rocket design and less on your sewing skills, which I think is a great improvement.

[Jouni]

I have mixed feelings about the manoeuvre nodes. I think they are wonderfully useful and help you make efficient rendezvous manoeuvres, but having them does take away from some learning about orbital mechanics. I had KSP before M-nodes so I had to learn to rendezvous by eye and it gave me such a wonderful ah-ha moment about how two orbits interact, it was one of the biggest "wow, this game teaches me stuff" moments. I feel that with manoeuvre nodes you don't get that particular lesson at all which is a pity.

The maneuver nodes are a superior tool for learning precisely that. Instead of experimenting with actual burns and quickloading after seeing how the they affect the orbit, you can just experiment with hypothetical burns without doing anything irreversible.

Better tools allow people who want to learn to learn better and faster. Even people who have less interest in learning new stuff might enjoy the game with them. Worse tools, on the other hand, just waste everyone's time.

[joekidd1992]

I've been playing 3 weeks and I'm debating on whether I need to seek help to do something other than Mun and Minimus. Because I have to tell you, I am flailing around on my own trying to figure out to get more fuel into orbit so that I can go to Duna or Eve. Having bigger rockets that have more thrust is obviously not the answer. Because I get them to orbit and they usually have very similar fuel %-wise left than what I was getting with my smaller rockets. I did once get within shouting distance of Eve, then I had to revert because there was no way I was getting back.

[magnemoe]

I don't know about too easy but it most certainly is much easier than when I started playing in 0.13.

Yes, however stock grand tour is harder now than in 0.13.