Stockalike RF Engine Configs v3.2.6 [01/20/19][RF v12]

[ebigunso]

Cool, come here for a bug fix and discover this now includes a facsimile of EngineIgnitors. :cool:Excellent:cool:

So, as it stands right now, just adding RealPlumes effectively undoes the no-exhaust problem, yes?

No, Raptor831 says in his post that it doesn't. Only choice for us is to sit tight and wait for it to get fixed

[MinimumSky5]

Thank you for the update. Your work is really appreciated.

Possible bug:

Having a strange issue where RLA-Stockalike engines are simply not showing up in the VAB. RLA parts show up again when the corresponding Stockalike RF cfg is removed. Only tested with RLA-Stockalike 12.1. Testing with the experimental version of RLA is slower as they've changed all the PART names, but seems to be the same issue with that version as well.

Same here, I thought I was going mad when the parts disappeared! The only parts that show up for me are the 0.625 nerva and the small RTG.

[Raptor831]

No, Raptor831 says in his post that it doesn't. Only choice for us is to sit tight and wait for it to get fixed

Well, apparently, if you have everything installed correctly it does work. As NathanKell said, if you have no EFFECTS nodes the new setup won't work. But Real Plume does add those EFFECTS nodes. I had something messed up with Real Plume, so I reinstalled and it works now. Which effectively makes Real Plume necessary for RF/Stockalike to work. I could probably come up with a fallback to use without Real Plume, but it'd be hit or miss because the effects are very dependent on model shape/size.

So, for now, make sure you have Real Plume properly installed, use Svm420's configs (Stock configs might work ok too), and enjoy more effects.

I'm going to try and figure out why RLA engines are disappearing now.

[Raptor831]

Here's the log file + MM config for the disappearing RLA engines issue I mentioned earlier. I looked it over but wasn't able find any obvious errors pointing to this bug. Tested with RLA 12.1.

Log file

MM config

Thanks for these. Have you checked all tabs to make sure the parts aren't just hiding? They're all in the MM cache, and there's no part errors in the log from RLA parts. Just seems odd they'd just be gone, especially only when Stockalike is installed.

[MinimumSky5]

I found the RLA parts! They're hiding in Fuel Tanks, along with some AEIS engines.

On a separate note, has engine igniter been integrated with Real Fuels? I swear I didn't install it, but I have ignition limits on my engines!

[Tellion]

I found the RLA parts! They're hiding in Fuel Tanks, along with some AEIS engines.

On a separate note, has engine igniter been integrated with Real Fuels? I swear I didn't install it, but I have ignition limits on my engines!

Yes, it has. Read the last few pages for some more detailed info on it

[CatastrophicFailure]

Here they are. Not perfectly tuned, but very playable. Feel free to redistribute them with credit in the RFStockaliike DL, and please any users if you improve any engine flare/plume placement please pass it on. This was only 1st pass on placement,and I got better as I got further in. It may have some configs for engines I have added not currently included in RFStockalike, but will cause no issues. I plan to keep updating, but will do it as I use engines instead of several hours each night for a week . Enjoy

forgive me for being dumb, but does the extracted folder of CFG's go in /damegata or dump directly into /RealFuels?

[Raptor831]

forgive me for being dumb, but does the extracted folder of CFG's go in /damegata or dump directly into /RealFuels?

Try them in GameData/RealPlume/. I didn't have any luck with them in just GameData, and the Real Plume - Stock install places the configs in /RealPlume.

EDIT: Changed to the correct instructions. Edited pieces in bold...

Edited July 26, 2015 by Raptor831

[allenby]

Thanks for these. Have you checked all tabs to make sure the parts aren't just hiding? They're all in the MM cache, and there's no part errors in the log from RLA parts. Just seems odd they'd just be gone, especially only when Stockalike is installed.

Found them in the fuels tanks. I glanced at the other tabs but didn't check all the pages. Really wasn't expecting the engines to have moved, but mystery solved . Just curious as to why mod engines are appearing in fuel tanks.

[hoojiwana]

Found them in the fuels tanks. I glanced at the other tabs but didn't check all the pages. Really wasn't expecting the engines to have moved, but mystery solved . Just curious as to why mod engines are appearing in fuel tanks.

For that version of RLA Stockalike the engines are all still categorised under the old "Propulsion" tab which was split into Engine and FuelTank in 0.90 (I think). With the regular install this was fine since the game automatically sorted them correctly, but with Stockalike RF it seems it changes what type of part the game sees them as, and it puts them all in the tanks tab. This is fixed in the new version of RLA, but for now making sure the category is set to Engine in an MM config should fix that.

This is probably the same with AIES since that's not been updated in a while.

[Raptor831]

For that version of RLA Stockalike the engines are all still categorised under the old "Propulsion" tab which was split into Engine and FuelTank in 0.90 (I think). With the regular install this was fine since the game automatically sorted them correctly, but with Stockalike RF it seems it changes what type of part the game sees them as, and it puts them all in the tanks tab. This is fixed in the new version of RLA, but for now making sure the category is set to Engine in an MM config should fix that.

This is probably the same with AIES since that's not been updated in a while.

That's kind of what I was thinking, but didn't know for sure. The Stockalike configs update the ModuleEngines module to ModuleEnginesRF, so I'm sure that change is causing the game to mis-categorize them because stock doesn't know what the heck ModuleEnginesRF is.

MM config that might work to get them in the right tab:

@PART[RLA*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngine*]]
{
  @category = Engine
}

Anything else you'd probably have to set individually. AIES does not have a consistent naming convention, so no slick MM patch for them, just individual @PART changes.

Also, now that these issues have at minimum a workaround, I wanted to start moving forward with improvements and additions. Here's a non-exhaustive list of things I wanted to do:

1) Add BoxSat, SELV, Vanguard Astrodynamics to the list of supported mods, and update RLA (of course!)

2) Start "balancing" the ignitions, along the lines of what NathanKell mentioned upthread somewhere... (Orbital engines all have multiple ignitions, ignitions increase with TL)

3) Add the option to use the pressurized engine options in RF

4) Add above ignition balancing/pressurized engine switch to the options in the web app

5) Get some actual solid fuels in the mix besides SolidFuel since we have them now in RF/CRP

6) Filling out any Real Plume configs for engines not included in Svm420's configs, and rolling them into the Stockalike download somehow. Possibly even offering them within CKAN as a Real Plume set (so you can properly install it that way...)

7) Maybe adding Real Plume options in the web app for people to use (i.e. you have a Hydrolox CONFIG on a U-type engine, so here's you a Hydrolox-Upper PLUME, with possible position tweaks)

8) Add some of the engines only represented in the configs into the web app (so I don't have to manually update those every time NK adds another awesome feature to Real Fuels!)

As always, please discuss any of the above points if you have some input. I'd especially want some input for #5, since I don't know the first thing about the differences between the solid fuels available in RF/CRP. Also, which engines should be pressure fed, and how many ignitions should we use per TL.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Raptor831
Posted too fast, forgot one!

[Joseph_Terran]

Try them in GameData/RealFuels/. I didn't have any luck with them in just GameData, and the Real Plume - Stock install places the configs in /RealFuels.

Tried sticking it just into the realfuels. No effect, will just use wildcats. Now I just need to figure out how to purge the gas bubbles from my hydro/lox lines on my 3rd stage

UPDATE: nvm, started working for some reason.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Joseph_Terran

[Raptor831]

Tried sticking it just into the realfuels. No effect, will just use wildcats. Now I just need to figure out how to purge the gas bubbles from my hydro/lox lines on my 3rd stage

Oh, wow, I'm an idiot. Replace "RealFuels" in my last post with "RealPlume". They go in /GameData/RealPlume/.

And, in Kerbal fashion, it needs more (small) boosters.

[Joseph_Terran]

(Vapor in feedlines Engine shutdown) ?

[Raptor831]

(Vapor in feedlines Engine shutdown) ?

It's a reference to ullage motors. Basically, the propellant needs to be at the "feed" end of the tank (wherever the pump grabs it to get it to the engine). In zero gee (or freefall or microgravity or whatever), the propellant tends to move around randomly and not "down" towards the feed. Ullage is needed to "settle" the propellant back to the bottom. That's the "vapor in the lines" issue; your fuel isn't at the bottom of the tanks. You have to add some kind of acceleration to get it there. Easiest way is to add some separatrons (or other mod's version of small solid boosters) to the stage you're on and fire them before you light the engine. That'll get the fuel stable so you can properly light your engine.

Wiki article, and probably a more cohesive explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullage_motor

Given that this is all native to Real Fuels now, I should probably write a quick note in the OP explaining this stuff.

[Tellion]

You have to add some kind of acceleration to get it there. Easiest way is to add some separatrons (or other mod's version of small solid boosters) to the stage you're on and fire them before you light the engine. That'll get the fuel stable so you can properly light your engine.

I would add that RCS is not subject to ullage either - using it is nicer for your partcount than sticking 10+ sepatrons on your crafts.

[ebigunso]

The main problem with RCS and settling fuel is that RT doesn't let us fire RCS using it's flight computer, so we have to look into kOS which isn't really too friendly to the average player

Easy solution is to just go on and stick tons of scaled down ullage motors on board, although that is less than ideal.

[Tellion]

The main problem with RCS and settling fuel is that RT doesn't let us fire RCS using it's flight computer, so we have to look into kOS which isn't really too friendly to the average player

Easy solution is to just go on and stick tons of scaled down ullage motors on board, although that is less than ideal.

Are you sure about that? I have the impression that RCS was sometimes used for thrust by the flight computer as long as the main engine was deactivated. If I am not mistaken, that would make it possible to configure via RT.

But in any case, Remote Tech alone has severe limitations, the primary example being landings. I would not want to attempt getting a probe to Tylo's surface with RT only, no matter the ullage issue. It is either Mechjeb, kOS or RT without signal delay for those situations.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Tellion

[westamastaflash]

It is either Mechjeb, kOS or RT without signal delay for those situations.

Yeah I basically gave up on RT with signal delay. I just "role-play" that these commands were figured out by Kerbals smarter than me in advance.

[Tellion]

Yeah I basically gave up on RT with signal delay. I just "role-play" that these commands were figured out by Kerbals smarter than me in advance.

I have kOS CPUs on all my unmanned probes but usually the game recieves an update before they arrive at places where signal delay becomes a real issue. Some day I will learn it though

[NathanKell]

Raptor831: A note on paths. Going forward, I think it would make things cleaner/easier/etc if the stockalike configs were under their own folder (say RealFuels-Stockalike)--then people would have an easier time knowing if they're installed/uninstalled, and it'd make manual install/uninstall of this, and of RF, easier if they weren't all in the same folder.

[Raptor831]

Raptor831: A note on paths. Going forward, I think it would make things cleaner/easier/etc if the stockalike configs were under their own folder (say RealFuels-Stockalike)--then people would have an easier time knowing if they're installed/uninstalled, and it'd make manual install/uninstall of this, and of RF, easier if they weren't all in the same folder.

Yeah, I was wondering when/if that'd become a problem. Probably a good thing to do on a v3 release.

[ebigunso]

One thing I noticed and would like added in to the new release, a config for the retro booster on R&S Capsuledyne's 3.75m capsule.

Thanks!

[SVarg]

SXT engines FX config needed. Someone have it?

[Raptor831]

SXT engines FX config needed. Someone have it?

I don't recall if the Real Plume configs a few pages back has SXT, but HotRockets has SXT configs. You might have to do some work to get it to play nice with RF/Stockalike (I think you'd only need to replace any ModuleEniginesFX with ModuleEnginesRF). In fact, Real Plume - Stock has SXT configs already. Same as before, just change the MEFX to MERF. MM configs will do that for you if you don't want to find/replace in configs.

Those should work, but they won't be "tuned" to Stockalike, so YMMV.