[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[biohazard15]

Alright, on Proton.

Bugs:

- 1st stage and 3rd stage engines hasn't any smoke FX in atmosphere

- 2nd and 3rd stage fuel tanks has size 1 nodes - although they should be size 2 for a 2.5m parts. I didn't noticed any wobblying, but I run KJR.

- 3rd stage verniers doesn't work (I guess it's intentional)

Performance:

NEAR, 40t dummy payload, 100x100km orbit. Didn't even fired 3rd stage

BTW, start TWR is 1.61 with 40t payload, and 1.77 with 25t payload - which is good for NEAR+DRE. Anyway, your Proton is my new standard 25-50t launcher (after you fix FX and nodes, of course)

Edited September 25, 2014 by biohazard15

[Beale]

Nice! I know what I'm doing tonight.

~Edit: So I really love all your capsules. The Pol specifically is my go to unmanned. Check out the following link for my RT2 satellites made possible by the Pol.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/94391-Your-RT2-networks?p=1434960&viewfull=1#post1434960

Nice setup! I do like the use of the Pol core for a relay. I have a similar setup, but a bit less organized than yours (Relying more on molniya orbits than geostationary).

Alright, on Proton.

Bugs:

- 1st stage and 3rd stage engines hasn't any smoke FX in atmosphere

- 2nd and 3rd stage fuel tanks has size 1 nodes - although they should be size 2 for a 2.5m parts. I didn't noticed any wobblying, but I run KJR.

- 3rd stage verniers doesn't work (I guess it's intentional)

Performance:

http://i.imgur.com/hH26khX.jpg

NEAR, 40t dummy payload, 100x100km orbit. Didn't even fired 3rd stage

BTW, start TWR is 1.61 with 40t payload, and 1.77 with 25t payload - which is good for NEAR+DRE. Anyway, your Proton is my new standard 25-50t launcher (after you fix FX and nodes, of course)

Thanks for the feedback!

You're using Near? In stock I have trouble getting 25tons to LKO with the third stage even, but maybe I fly it wrong.

I'll fix the nodes and smoke FX asap!

For now, the verniers are just RCS thrusters, try activate RCS and press H. Once I can sort out the FX, they should just be gimbals to the main engine.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Beale

[biohazard15]

Thanks for the feedback!

You're using Near? In stock I have trouble getting 25tons to LKO with the third stage even, but maybe I fly it wrong.

I'll fix the nodes and smoke FX asap!

For now, the verniers are just RCS thrusters, try activate RCS and press H. Once I can sort out the FX, they should just be gimbals to the main engine.

Moreover, I used Mechjeb for ascent, and it was far from ideal

To make it more balanced in FAR\NEAR, I would suggest tweaking Isp and thrust in such way that it would be around 3500-3600 m\s Dv with 25t payload and around 1.3-1.5 start TWR.

For 2nd and 3rd stage retrorockets, I'll use Lateraltrons from Perfectrons pack, they look just as they were made for ALV

[Nori]

Nice setup! I do like the use of the Pol core for a relay. I have a similar setup, but a bit less organized than yours.

Thanks! I worked really hard to get them just right. I really like that the Pollux has a 7MM because the omni antennas are usually hard to place without looking odd (or needing two for balance).

[Darth Lazarus]

Beale? how do you fly your rockets? maybe we can help to improve your flightsyle

[Niemand303]

Really, this new release is the only thing that can distract me from my nightly Homestucking! Gonna try Salyuting with your Proton right now!

[Nori]

Nice setup! I do like the use of the Pol core for a relay. I have a similar setup, but a bit less organized than yours (Relying more on molniya orbits than geostationary).

Thanks for the feedback!

You're using Near? In stock I have trouble getting 25tons to LKO with the third stage even, but maybe I fly it wrong.

I'll fix the nodes and smoke FX asap!

For now, the verniers are just RCS thrusters, try activate RCS and press H. Once I can sort out the FX, they should just be gimbals to the main engine.

Well stock is soup compared to NEAR. Assuming @bio isn't using KIDS then he should easily be able to get 40t to orbit compared to 25t in stock.

[ste1701]

The proton is great!

Managed to put 27 tons in orbit without problems

[Beale]

Beale? how do you fly your rockets? maybe we can help to improve your flightsyle

Eheh, like most other people I think. Straight up to 10km, then 45 degree pitch until Apoapsis is reasonably high.

I have been having an on and off relationship with NEAR, so I've been trying some different methods recently.

The proton is great!

Managed to put 27 tons in orbit without problems

http://i.imgur.com/MhQxhpQ.png

Nice!

If that's 27Tons with only 157m/s delta V to spare, then I guess 25 tons could get to 100km x 100km?

Moreover, I used Mechjeb for ascent, and it was far from ideal

To make it more balanced in FAR\NEAR, I would suggest tweaking Isp and thrust in such way that it would be around 3500-3600 m\s Dv with 25t payload and around 1.3-1.5 start TWR.

For 2nd and 3rd stage retrorockets, I'll use Lateraltrons from Perfectrons pack, they look just as they were made for ALV

http://i.imgur.com/80OfrVD.jpg

Well stock is soup compared to NEAR. Assuming @bio isn't using KIDS then he should easily be able to get 40t to orbit compared to 25t in stock.

I think it is worth mentioning KIDS, for NEAR/FAR users. Looking at many other launcher packs, not many include module-manager patches for NEAR/FAR and instead would probably be needing KIDS.

The perfectrons are nice!

KIDS, there are presets for FAR

Also:

The Vega/Alnair are only in the range of 10-15 tons, so I suppose they should be aimed at a higher orbit (maybe around 400km?).

Edited September 25, 2014 by Beale

[Niemand303]

To make it more balanced in FAR\NEAR, I would suggest tweaking Isp and thrust in such way that it would be around 3500-3600 m\s Dv with 25t payload and around 1.3-1.5 start TWR.

If you tweak them like this, you won't get enough delta v to get even a lowest orbit in stock. I'd prefer leaving numbers adjusted for stock, as it is more popular.

[Darth Lazarus]

so now a review of the Proton:

game is a vanilla KSP without NEAR or FAR, no mechjeb, only KER for building the rocket. piloting manuel

first imrpessions of the rocket are good. textures are looking good, compared with the orignal tanktextures, the ALV seems more polished and fresh, but still has a stock feeling. The Size: dude your Proton is loooong but i think you did a mistake with the size of the third stage tank. it should only half as long as you have. i know the pictures i showed you some pages here ago are missleading, because of the enginefairings. the first stage .. hrm ... not sure, together with the rest of your ALV it looks good, but if you are going to shorten your third stage, then i would reduce the length of the first stage about the size of a X200-8 fueltank (smallest 2.5m tank in length). engines, your eninges are very powerfull and it's easy to lift up to 27tons to a low kerbin orbit. i was nicely surprised about the power of the secondstage. third stage .... well verniers are not working and attitude controll really depends on your SAS ... i really hope that you can add working verniers somehow because that would add a very special candy to your rocket ! last thing about your engines: they are not producing electricity like most of teh stock engines. people will need lots of batterys to get to orbit with SAS on. effects: interstage grids are awesome and FX are already mentioned.

about the wobble: yip, wrong nodes, with out reinforcemnt of some king it will be very hard to steer your ALV

overall: verywell done Beale. you did a great job on your first own lifter.

a comparison of your ALV and my Stock Proton:

edit:

narf, best way to get the right size of everything is just to sacle down the original Proton.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Darth Lazarus

[Beale]

so now a review of the Proton:

game is a vanilla KSP without NEAR or FAR, no mechjeb, only KER for building the rocket. piloting manuel

first imrpessions of the rocket are good. textures are looking good, compared with the orignal tanktextures, the ALV seems more polished and fresh, but still has a stock feeling. The Size: dude your Proton is loooong but i think you did a mistake with the size of the third stage tank. it should only half as long as you have. i know the pictures i showed you some pages here ago are missleading, because of the enginefairings. the first stage .. hrm ... not sure, together with the rest of your ALV it looks good, but if you are going to shorten your third stage, then i would reduce the length of the first stage about the size of a X200-8 fueltank (smallest 2.5m tank in length). engines, your eninges are very powerfull and it's easy to lift up to 27tons to a low kerbin orbit. i was nicely surprised about the power of the secondstage. third stage .... well verniers are not working and attitude controll really depends on your SAS ... i really hope that you can add working verniers somehow because that would add a very special candy to your rocket ! last thing about your engines: they are not producing electricity like most of teh stock engines. people will need lots of batterys to get to orbit with SAS on. effects: interstage grids are awesome and FX are already mentioned.

about the wobble: yip, wrong nodes, with out reinforcemnt of some king it will be very hard to steer your ALV

overall: verywell done Beale. you did a great job on your first own lifter.

a comparison of your ALV and my Stock Proton:

http://i.imgur.com/EK9qFcM.jpg

edit:

narf, best way to get the right size of everything is just to sacle down the original Proton.

Hi!

Thanks for the great feedback, glad you like it.

A lot of your points are going to be fixed very soon (the nodes, alternators on the engine, hopefully verniers).

On the size, it is difficult.

I can't really change the size easily without re-doing the models.

But I based the stages on this diagram, to scale.

Well, in reality I used a number of diagrams of the Proton and they all seemed to disagree on some scales.

Here you see the third tank (Well, plus the engine I suppose) is around 2/3rds of the second tank.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Beale

[Darth Lazarus]

very nice picture of a proton with the Zond i used my experience with the Proton to draw the tanksize into your picture. i'm not really sure about the enginemounting of the second stage, but i kmnow the thirdstage fairing. i hope this helps

green: fairing, shrouds, adapters

yellow: tanksize

i think i will rewwork my Proton to get a better scale

[biohazard15]

If you tweak them like this, you won't get enough delta v to get even a lowest orbit in stock. I'd prefer leaving numbers adjusted for stock, as it is more popular.

Who said about making it FAR\NEAR-only? Optional MM config would do just fine

And about KIDS... Well, I tried it, and I didn't quite like it - I use several parts packs (KW, NP, RLA), and KIDS messes with their balance too much for my taste.

Another idea: Beale, can you add a spooling effect to the first stage, like in KW Rocketry?

[johnwayne1930]

Could not resist and made a quick update of the texture config to take a look at the new textures.

Really like the new crema variant and the Kvant, very detailed!

Now I'm going play with the Proton.

Btw, is the Vega striped variant gone?

[Beale]

Who said about making it FAR\NEAR-only? Optional MM config would do just fine

And about KIDS... Well, I tried it, and I didn't quite like it - I use several parts packs (KW, NP, RLA), and KIDS messes with their balance too much for my taste.

Another idea: Beale, can you add a spooling effect to the first stage, like in KW Rocketry?

Trouble is, if I add the mm patch for NEAR/FAR, then KIDS users will be left out to dry as KIDS will nerf the NEAR/FAR configs even further (KIDS IIRC is universal, MM patches will only fix the ALV).

I can see where you are coming from, but maybe I'd need some more input from NEAR/FAR users to decide what to do

I'll look into the spooling effect!

Could not resist and made a quick update of the texture config to take a look at the new textures.

Really like the new crema variant and the Kvant, very detailed!

Now I'm going play with the Proton.

Btw, is the Vega striped variant gone?

Ah! Thank you so much, I was having difficulty with the config!

Erm, it appears I've forgotten the Striped "Salyut 7" texture. Will update a.s.a.p!

Edited September 25, 2014 by Beale

[Reddragon]

The Proton is working fine so far, good work Beale! I hope, you an fix the FX sometime.

And this Wolf Aerospace LES tower with the LOK and a two stage Proton is fantastic to play with:

Also, it looks like reaching for the stars is a whole lot cheaper now.

[Beale]

The Proton is working fine so far, good work Beale! I hope, you an fix the FX sometime.

And this Wolf Aerospace LES tower with the LOK and a two stage Proton is fantastic to play with:

http://i.imgur.com/zqTyE6Y.png

Also, it looks like reaching for the stars is a whole lot cheaper now.

Costs! The Costs! I forgot them...

I agree the WA LES is a great fit!

[ZodiaK]

proton is out:

[Nori]

Trouble is, if I add the mm patch for NEAR/FAR, then KIDS users will be left out to dry as KIDS will nerf the NEAR/FAR configs even further (KIDS IIRC is universal, MM patches will only fix the ALV).

I can see where you are coming from, but maybe I'd need some more input from NEAR/FAR users to decide what to do

~snip

I use FAR and I suggest balancing against stock and not adding a MM patch. If someone is using NEAR/FAR and isn't using KIDS than I think they would generally have to balance ISP themselves.

As far as I've seen any mod that add engines does not include FAR patches (I use RLA, KW, Tantares, Near Future and others), and honestly that is a lot of extra work for what is probably a small portion of FAR users.

@Bio, did you try creating your own custom KIDS setup? I didn't use any of the included ones and instead did a 0.80 for atmo and 1.0 for vacuum. That way it takes around the same DV to get to orbit as stock, but doesn't affect you beyond atmo.

[Beale]

I use FAR and I suggest balancing against stock and not adding a MM patch. If someone is using NEAR/FAR and isn't using KIDS than I think they would generally have to balance ISP themselves.

As far as I've seen any mod that add engines does not include FAR patches (I use RLA, KW, Tantares, Near Future and others), and honestly that is a lot of extra work for what is probably a small portion of FAR users.

I think I'm inclined to agree to this

There's a million different levels of realism. I think it would be hard to create configs to please everyone.

Maybe someone can argue against this? But endorsing KIDS for NEAR/FAR users seems a good solution.

TLV Release 1.1

Hot-hot-hot fix!

Still haven't added Smoke or vernier FX, those will take a little more time.

but:

• Added alternators
  
• Made the ALV a little more expensive
  
• Increased node size
  

[Darth Lazarus]

thanks Beale for the fast fixes !

will test them later, currently researching infos about size and performace of various upperstages for russain rockets and calcualting kerbal size for different stuff xD

[The14th]

Yay!

I just got home from work to discover the new release! Thanks so much Beale!

I can't wait to try this out this weekend

[biohazard15]

• Added alternators
  
• Made the ALV a little more expensive
  
• Increased node size
  

Thanks for the fixes!

Spooling effect is essentially the same as in jet engines. For example, this is from KW Maverick V config:

useEngineResponseTime = True
engineAccelerationSpeed = 0.70
engineDecelerationSpeed = 0.80

Of course, that should be coupled with and tuned to some cool sounds.

The effect itself is purely cosmetic (although, it can pose problems in the space - that's why KW has spooling only on first stage engines), but it gives a magnificent lift-off instead of jump.

[GeoPhizzix]

Really enjoying the new lifter, yet another well done set of parts!

Have a question/request. While doing a couple test flights tonight, there was 2 instances (pictured below) that I wondered "Hmm, these proc fairings would look awesome in Beale Grey."

1) Yes, I really did dub it Beale Grey.

2) Is making one or two shapes for Proc Fairings, something you might be interested in doing down the line?

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