[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[CrisK]

I tried to repeat my vertical docking with the ALN descent engine on the Mun. It's much harder on the Mun because of the increase in gravity. Also, the engine is REALLY hard to steer. The controls are inverted (even though I have the pod facing the right direction!). I fly "blind" with no docking port alignment indicator or Mechjeb.

Here's a link to an album (thank you to Niemand303 for posting an album so that I learned how to do it) in case anyone wants to try to replicate the mission:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

First, I sent up a Proton with a lander attached by a docking port. I put one of the Tantares probes under the docking port.

Once I reached the Mun, I established an orbit at around 90m and detatched the lander. The 3rd stage of the Proton orbited the Mun with roughly 300m/s of DeltaV left. I deactivated the engine and undocked the lander. The 3rd stage continued to orbit the Mun. It would later serve as a tug boat to push the Mun base back to Kerbin - no need to waste that remaining DeltaV!

The lander needed some small adjustments so that it would fall onto the base vertically.

...and I failed. Again, I was doing this by eye. I fell 30km away. I probably could have kept reloading quicksaves until I fine-tuned it, but where is the fun in that?

My two Kerbalnauts EVA'd and walked over to the base. (End of image gallery. )

I later managed to land an unmanned probe onto the top of the base, but I used the radial mounted monopropellant engines to do a normal landing. That ALN engine is too hard for me to steer manually at my skill level!

Once I fulfilled a few of the "build a base on the Mun with X requirements" contracts, I flew the base up into a docking alignment with the Stage C orbiting station, docked, and flew home. I'm happy to report that no Kerbals were hurt in these missions!

A quick tip - the "build a base on the Mun with X requirements" contracts can be fulfilled by docking a capsule to an existing base. That's why I have such enormous, ridiculous looking vertical stacked bases. I keep building upwards with probes that have docking ports attached on both ends. The Tantares probe that fits 1 kerbal works perfectly for this because it meets the "unmanned" criteria and still adds +1 to the crew capacity.

[dimovski]

That's a lunar surface rendezvous! Really cool! AFAIK the original soviet lunar landing plans had one of these, with both a spare unmanned LOK and a LK!

Once I reached the Mun, I established an orbit at around 90m and detatched the lander.

You really love the Oberth effect, don't you

Meanwhile at Baikonour, launch pad 110L:

A full mass mockup of the N-IU/F V-II,-III has been assembled.

Reportedly, atleast one marshal of the strategic rocket forces suffered a stroke after finding out how many megatons may be loaded on top of one of these...

[Niemand303]

Meanwhile at Baikonour, launch pad 110L:

A full mass mockup of the N-IU/F V-II,-III has been assembled.

http://i.imgur.com/LcCMC4r.png

Reportedly, atleast one marshal of the strategic rocket forces suffered a stroke after finding out how many megatons may be loaded on top of one of these...

I juste LMAOd at the last phrase :D

This rocket is somehow weird, but I like the first stage.

For the post about a space program, I think it may need a new agency to not forget things, since I have made lots of stuff and I realized I forgot to make a military part of the program.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Niemand303

[dimovski]

Eh, it's the only way I could implement this:

The 1st stage comes from a real N-I mod, the 2 stages were done with a lot of measuring via procedural fairings parts inside the game, and pixel counting from astronautix. And ofcourse a boatload of .cfg edits. And part welding.

[CrisK]

That's a lunar surface rendezvous! Really cool! AFAIK the original soviet lunar landing plans had one of these, with both a spare unmanned LOK and a LK!

Thank you! It is actually very easy to do with a normal lander. i.e. one that has an engine below the centre of mass. The Tantares Lunniy can easily land within 20m of a ground vehicle or station. I would use it if I didn't want both a pilot and a scientist for the science bonus. It's too bad the Lunniy doesn't hold two Kerbals.

You really love the Oberth effect, don't you

Yes. The Proton has low DeltaV compared to the FASA or asparagus-aided rockets so burns have to be very efficient. You probably noticed that I did my burns at periapsis! Without the Oberth effect I would not have enough DeltaV for a return trip. I would waste all my fuel leaving Kerbin's orbit and establishing a new orbit around the moon/planet. Also, for a return burn I try to make my periapsis line up with the front of the moon/planet's orbit. That way I get a smaller return orbit around Kerbin.

Of course, you don't need efficient burns if you utilise 4-6 external tanks in asparagus staging tacked onto the 1st stage of the Proton. I really hate doing that because it looks ugly and unrealistic. You can get into orbit with 4 large tanks (with engines) + the first stage alone. It's unrealistic to the point where it feels like cheating.

Meanwhile at Baikonour, launch pad 110L:

A full mass mockup of the N-IU/F V-II,-III has been assembled.

Reportedly, atleast one marshal of the strategic rocket forces suffered a stroke after finding out how many megatons may be loaded on top of one of these...

That looks great! Did you create the cage/wire fairing, or is that part of the first stage's parts pack? I believe that there's at least one parts pack that includes this rocket. Bobcat maybe?

[dimovski]

Three. I think... And if all goes well, Tantares will too!

I could make a cone in about an hour or two in a modelling program. And if someone would texture it for me I might bring it into KSP. So no, I didn't make the wire interstage

The particular parts pack I use is from DennyTX. BobCats would work just as fine, however it's not as modular. (Well, that's why it has 30+8+4 parts less per rocket)

To be honest, in all these years I still landed on the Mun only twice manually. And I probably broke something both times. MJ ftw

So you did a really good job!

(btw, if you like realism, have a look at RSS - you'll love it)

[Beale]

Tantares LV 4 Release!

New Proton (With decoupler).

It's less powerful, as it should be.

Find any bugs / suggestions? Let me know

It is actually a really silly concept. Probably why they aren't bothering with it. The dragon you get all RCS thrusters, heatshield, tanks, etc etc back unharmed and no need to repack the chutes. However the PPTS shed all that so adding landing legs just to not deploy a parachute made no sense.

Ah, but there is practical cool and "I want to fly this thing" cool!

Yay, Energia confirmed! Would like to try it.

So much possibilities with the new stock Shuttle system.

Meanwhile RSSA prepares to flyby Eve on a Salyut-derived system with 6500 m/s of DeltaV, using only 1 launch of every available rocket (Proton for Hab block, N-1 for heavy propulsion system and a Soyuz to transport crew):

http://imgur.com/a/39Voa

Sadly, soon after this triumph of Kerbiet Union, a shocking news were announced: failure while returning from Salyut station and a tragic death of first Kerbal in space, Hero of the Kerbiet Union Jebediah Kerman and a newly trained kerbonaut Patlock Kermin accompanying him in this flight.

http://puu.sh/eeQEB/e567479da9.png

Nice straightforward interplanetary design, I should try this!

The mod for Kerbal mission tracking? (Wasn't that supposed to be stock in 0.90 anyway?)

Energia, still very much subject to change, but it has been remade completely since last shown (The Zenit system, that is).

I did notice that, actually :-) It just seems that after detaching, or if used without the top engine, the VA looks so short that the crew would be packed in like cigars lol :-)

I suspect tapering the "slope" of the capsule's exterior to taper to 1.25 (and just having the top engine slightly scaled up to start at 1.25) might not look too bad, or even look too "wrong" compared to the IRL design.

Or maybe, as you mentioned, just having the junction between the top of the VA and the engine be 0.9365m (with, or without, other adaptors).

Again, just random thoughts.

For certain almost, the 0.9375m sizes will be the way to go. Much more natural to me now.

I tried to repeat my vertical docking with the ALN descent engine on the Mun. It's much harder on the Mun because of the increase in gravity. Also, the engine is REALLY hard to steer. The controls are inverted (even though I have the pod facing the right direction!). I fly "blind" with no docking port alignment indicator or Mechjeb.

Here's a link to an album (thank you to Niemand303 for posting an album so that I learned how to do it) in case anyone wants to try to replicate the mission:

http://imgur.com/a/LnT0y

First, I sent up a Proton with a lander attached by a docking port. I put one of the Tantares probes under the docking port.

Once I reached the Mun, I established an orbit at around 90m and detatched the lander. The 3rd stage of the Proton orbited the Mun with roughly 300m/s of DeltaV left. I deactivated the engine and undocked the lander. The 3rd stage continued to orbit the Mun. It would later serve as a tug boat to push the Mun base back to Kerbin - no need to waste that remaining DeltaV!

The lander needed some small adjustments so that it would fall onto the base vertically.

...and I failed. Again, I was doing this by eye. I fell 30km away. I probably could have kept reloading quicksaves until I fine-tuned it, but where is the fun in that?

My two Kerbalnauts EVA'd and walked over to the base. (End of image gallery. )

I later managed to land an unmanned probe onto the top of the base, but I used the radial mounted monopropellant engines to do a normal landing. That ALN engine is too hard for me to steer manually at my skill level!

Once I fulfilled a few of the "build a base on the Mun with X requirements" contracts, I flew the base up into a docking alignment with the Stage C orbiting station, docked, and flew home. I'm happy to report that no Kerbals were hurt in these missions!

A quick tip - the "build a base on the Mun with X requirements" contracts can be fulfilled by docking a capsule to an existing base. That's why I have such enormous, ridiculous looking vertical stacked bases. I keep building upwards with probes that have docking ports attached on both ends. The Tantares probe that fits 1 kerbal works perfectly for this because it meets the "unmanned" criteria and still adds +1 to the crew capacity.

Nice!

The landing is "interesting". Maybe not the most comfortable

Thanks for the tip on the contracts, I had no idea...

That's a lunar surface rendezvous! Really cool! AFAIK the original soviet lunar landing plans had one of these, with both a spare unmanned LOK and a LK!

You really love the Oberth effect, don't you

Meanwhile at Baikonour, launch pad 110L:

A full mass mockup of the N-IU/F V-II,-III has been assembled.

http://i.imgur.com/LcCMC4r.png

Reportedly, atleast one marshal of the strategic rocket forces suffered a stroke after finding out how many megatons may be loaded on top of one of these...

Real cool! I like this one (Is this the largest N-1 variant?).

From the scenery I guess it is RSS? payload to LEO?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Beale

[SnowWhite]

Good job. Your new way of texturing is cool!

[dimovski]

Tantares LV 4 Release!

New Proton (With decoupler).

It's less powerful, as it should be.

Beautiful! I love how the Proton has that rough-and-ready look... reminds me of this particular variant:

Much better than the silvery ones flown now.

Even if I'm not a fan of multi-color Zenits, I'm glad you're making progress on them! I presume they will have a parachute-hatch, like IRL?

Real cool! I like this one (Is this the largest N-1 variant?).

From the scenery I guess it is RSS? payload to LEO?

Ahh no, it's not the heaviest one. The 1st stage would have to be substituted for a N-IM Blok A.

Yes, indeed it's RSS. And still in 0.25 to boot!

Payload depends on the delta-V.

9700 - 165 tons

9500 - 175 tons

9300 - 188 tons

If it's really good with few gravity losses in the 2nd and 3rd stage, it might do 200. I doubt that, however. It weighs 200 tons more than the N-IF Blok B and has the same thrust. And the 3rd stage is 20 tons heavier too... Maybe if I derp around enough I might be able to put 2 additional 11D52Ks in the middle without them looking horrible...

[HuntsmanThe8]

Nice Job on The Proton! I Just launched a small Fuji-Alike Orbital Transport Vehicle using it...

[biohazard15]

Okay, on new Proton. Note that this is with FAR and KIDS in "Atmospheric only" preset.

1) 3-stage variant (Proton-K) - roughly analogous to my Sentinel, the same 20-ton dummy got to the orbit with about 700 m\s dV left.

2) UR-500 (without 3rd stage) - same 20-ton dummy, about 600 dV left. (Sentinel can also do that, but with around 350 m\s left). In this configuration it can be used as interplanetary probe launcher - change 3rd stage engine to something 2.5m nuclear (LV-Nb from KSPX is good for that), and add a 4-5-ton probe. With luck, you won't even need to use NERVA for circularization.

3) Second stage could have somewhat less fuel, and third stage could have somewhat more, but that's nitpicking.

And price... You really should double it. 31K for a 15-20 ton launcher is too cheap.

[Beale]

Good job. Your new way of texturing is cool!

Thanks!

Beautiful! I love how the Proton has that rough-and-ready look... reminds me of this particular variant:

Much better than the silvery ones flown now.

Even if I'm not a fan of multi-color Zenits, I'm glad you're making progress on them! I presume they will have a parachute-hatch, like IRL?

Ahh no, it's not the heaviest one. The 1st stage would have to be substituted for a N-IM Blok A.

Yes, indeed it's RSS. And still in 0.25 to boot!

Payload depends on the delta-V.

9700 - 165 tons

9500 - 175 tons

9300 - 188 tons

If it's really good with few gravity losses in the 2nd and 3rd stage, it might do 200. I doubt that, however. It weighs 200 tons more than the N-IF Blok B and has the same thrust. And the 3rd stage is 20 tons heavier too... Maybe if I derp around enough I might be able to put 2 additional 11D52Ks in the middle without them looking horrible...

Thanks!

The Zenit: maybe calling it Zenit is a misleading. It is really intended for Energia radial fuel tanks, hence the colour scheme.

The N1, payload is amazing for RSS!

Nice Job on The Proton! I Just launched a small Fuji-Alike Orbital Transport Vehicle using it... http://i.imgur.com/xp8Nhjr.jpg

I really like this design!

Pretty unique. A VA Redesign would ruin it though.

Okay, on new Proton. Note that this is with FAR and KIDS in "Atmospheric only" preset.

1) 3-stage variant (Proton-K) - roughly analogous to my Sentinel, the same 20-ton dummy got to the orbit with about 700 m\s dV left.

2) UR-500 (without 3rd stage) - same 20-ton dummy, about 600 dV left. (Sentinel can also do that, but with around 350 m\s left). In this configuration it can be used as interplanetary probe launcher - change 3rd stage engine to something 2.5m nuclear (LV-Nb from KSPX is good for that), and add a 4-5-ton probe. With luck, you won't even need to use NERVA for circularization.

3) Second stage could have somewhat less fuel, and third stage could have somewhat more, but that's nitpicking.

And price... You really should double it. 31K for a 15-20 ton launcher is too cheap.

Thanks for the feedback!

It seems new Proton is reasonably better balanced than the old then, if not perfect

Gah, the prices are an oversight, will fix.

[CrisK]

I had time this evening to send up another Proton. This time I sent a new station to Minmus. As you can see, my burns were not as efficient this time. Still, I had plenty of fuel to fly there and back with my tug boat 3rd stage. Photos:

1. Take off.

2. The 3rd stage tug reaching and orbiting Minmus.

3. The 3rd stage tug returning to Kerbin where I land and recover it for the refund.

4. The station landing. It has 3 docking ports for future expansion. I used the Soyuz orbiter engine with the thrust limited to about 15 so that I could do a low, efficient burn. Wound up landing with...

5. 33 minutes worth of DeltaV left. Sheesh. I didn't need any of the external tanks. Still, they look cool.

6. 1.86m/s or roughly 16 minutes left at full thrust. More than enough to fly home without a tug if I ever want to. It has the ALN parachutes so it can easily land on Kerbin.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[biohazard15]

Made an UR-200 from Proton 2nd stage and Soyuz 2nd stage. Payload - Spiral-alike spaceplane.

Not sure if this thing can be flown without MJ (its "Limit acceleration" feature is absolutely needed for 1st stage). Wings are for stability - it flips without them.

The plane itself flies (or, to be precise, glides back to surface) surprisingly well, even with FAR and DRE (although currently DRE is kinda not "deadly" with FAR), which is surprising, if you consider amount of offset magic that was used to make it (there is several monoprop tanks inside the cockpit).

[tjsnh]

The new ALV stack separator is going to see a _LOT_ of use ....

[HuntsmanThe8]

Mein Dear Beale, I Do Understand That You Are unable to make Stock-Alike International Space Station. But, Is There Any Chance of you Making the Russian Orbital Segment of the ISS?

[dimovski]

Zvezda and Zarya are in essence TKS craft. They should weigh the same, too.

However I don't think we have a MRM/docking module equivalent for Pirs/Rassvet/Poisk in Tantares.

(There should be atleast one docking module around in other mods)

[Niemand303]

Zvezda and Zarya are in essence TKS craft. They should weigh the same, too.

However I don't think we have a MRM/docking module equivalent for Pirs/Rassvet/Poisk in Tantares.

(There should be atleast one docking module around in other mods)

Zvezda is based on Salyut, not TKS. And MRMs can be made with that 1.25m control blocks from Salyut. I have posted a screenshot of my ISS somewhere a hundred of pages earlier, I'll repost if I can find.

[dimovski]

Heh I guess that's what happens when you post around 5 o' clock in the morning :facepalm:

[Niemand303]

Heh I guess that's what happens when you post around 5 o' clock in the morning :facepalm:

I have just got out of bed too, but it's 12 AM at Moscow so I got that going for me, which is nice.

Yeah, there are specific radiator parts on Zarya but I don't think they are hard to replicate

[MK3424]

Mein Dear Beale, I Do Understand That You Are unable to make Stock-Alike International Space Station. But, Is There Any Chance of you Making the Russian Orbital Segment of the ISS? http://i.imgur.com/Ug1VDLY.png

You can make then already: they are based on former MIR modules and Salyut Stations.

[dimovski]

It LIVES!

I present you the ultimate part-welding-frankenstein-abomination, weighing in at a staggering 5000 tons, without any payload, dwarfing MIK-112 with it's ludicrous height of 165 meters, the...

Edited January 9, 2015 by dimovski

[biohazard15]

Here's some thoughts on Proton price balancing.

- ALV-A: 60000

- ALV-B tank: 11200

- ALV-B engine: 4500

- ALV-C tank: 4000

- ALV-C engine: 2000

- ALV decoupler: 600

Fuel tanks are balanced according to "LF price + OX price = 23% total price", this formula is true for stock tanks.

Engines are balanced against stock, KW and NP engines.

ALV-A: not sure about that, but it has too much performance to be priced less, or it's just breaks balance.

The entire rocket, ready-to-mount-payload, would cost 82900 - which is good. Considering its place in tech tree, I would say that it would serve nicely as a Mun\Minmus rocket, or heavy satellite\station launcher. Very useful if you've got a nice 300K contract for these stations or outposts. It won't either be almost free or burn a hole in your pocket with this pricing. Mind that real stuff costs more than $100M per one launch.

[Beale]

рð÷òøтøõ ÿрþôþûöðõтÑÂÑÂ

I had time this evening to send up another Proton. This time I sent a new station to Minmus. As you can see, my burns were not as efficient this time. Still, I had plenty of fuel to fly there and back with my tug boat 3rd stage. Photos:

1. Take off.

2. The 3rd stage tug reaching and orbiting Minmus.

3. The 3rd stage tug returning to Kerbin where I land and recover it for the refund.

4. The station landing. It has 3 docking ports for future expansion. I used the Soyuz orbiter engine with the thrust limited to about 15 so that I could do a low, efficient burn. Wound up landing with...

5. 33 minutes worth of DeltaV left. Sheesh. I didn't need any of the external tanks. Still, they look cool.

6. 1.86m/s or roughly 16 minutes left at full thrust. More than enough to fly home without a tug if I ever want to. It has the ALN parachutes so it can easily land on Kerbin.

http://imgur.com/a/yVO74

That base is awesome!

Great to see the shiny gold tanks getting use.

Giving Delta V in burn time is pretty interesting, if it was easier to measure burn times...

I have a "baby brother" for your base!

I think they are stuck on Minmus, but the multiple contracts netted a cool €1,000,000

Made an UR-200 from Proton 2nd stage and Soyuz 2nd stage. Payload - Spiral-alike spaceplane.

http://i.imgur.com/jrV6uKD.jpg

Not sure if this thing can be flown without MJ (its "Limit acceleration" feature is absolutely needed for 1st stage). Wings are for stability - it flips without them.

The plane itself flies (or, to be precise, glides back to surface) surprisingly well, even with FAR and DRE (although currently DRE is kinda not "deadly" with FAR), which is surprising, if you consider amount of offset magic that was used to make it (there is several monoprop tanks inside the cockpit).

Is the physics trickiness on ascent due to the "offset magic"?

Still, really nice, I like the pseudo-lifting body design thing. Perhaps FAR is what I'm missing, all my spaceplane designs crumble when DRE comes into play.

The new ALV stack separator is going to see a _LOT_ of use ....

Good!

Mein Dear Beale, I Do Understand That You Are unable to make Stock-Alike International Space Station. But, Is There Any Chance of you Making the Russian Orbital Segment of the ISS? http://i.imgur.com/Ug1VDLY.png

As others have said, the Russian segment is mostly made of stuff already in the pack, do you mean the Poisk, etc? If so, then I consider a Poisk a while ago. Maybe, is what I'm saying.

It LIVES!

I present you the ultimate part-welding-frankenstein-abomination, weighing in at a staggering 5000 tons, without any payload, dwarfing MIK-112 with it's ludicrous height of 165 meters, the...

http://i.imgur.com/S1huQul.png

http://i.imgur.com/lLF47Bx.png

Wow!

Does it even fly? It looks bigger than the VAB.

Fly me to the moon indeed!

Here's some thoughts on Proton price balancing.

- ALV-A: 60000

- ALV-B tank: 11200

- ALV-B engine: 4500

- ALV-C tank: 4000

- ALV-C engine: 2000

- ALV decoupler: 600

Fuel tanks are balanced according to "LF price + OX price = 23% total price", this formula is true for stock tanks.

Engines are balanced against stock, KW and NP engines.

ALV-A: not sure about that, but it has too much performance to be priced less, or it's just breaks balance.

The entire rocket, ready-to-mount-payload, would cost 82900 - which is good. Considering its place in tech tree, I would say that it would serve nicely as a Mun\Minmus rocket, or heavy satellite\station launcher. Very useful if you've got a nice 300K contract for these stations or outposts. It won't either be almost free or burn a hole in your pocket with this pricing. Mind that real stuff costs more than $100M per one launch.

Hiya!

These numbers are great, nicely explained too

Many thanks!

Edited January 9, 2015 by Beale

[dimovski]

That Energia is so utterly beautiful!

If you need additional sources for your modelling, you might want to have a look at this:

http://andegraf.com/rockets/rus_never.htm

There also appear to be many interior models of spacecraft on that site.

Regarding the N-IM: I still haven't taken it for a spin, mainly because the bottom heatshield had the nasty habit of ruttling itself to death as soon as the 11D51Ms were mounted... So I used the assembly for a quick picture, and then had to weld the skirt etc. on it. If it does fly now, it'll be able to lift between 230 and 300 tons, without RD-0410s! And with them... *evil laugh*