Darth Lazarus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Remember that stock Energia would have a very very heavy core compared to the real one. Real Energia and derivatives use a liquid hydrogen core which is much less dense than stock fuels, so the same size for Energia core in stock has a significantly higher mass.This is one of the main balance problems for AB Launchers.yes you are totaly right ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand303 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Remember that stock Energia would have a very very heavy core compared to the real one. Real Energia and derivatives use a liquid hydrogen core which is much less dense than stock fuels, so the same size for Energia core in stock has a significantly higher mass.This is one of the main balance problems for AB Launchers. If you guys have any suggestions on what route to take I'd love to hear them over in that thread.I'd suggest making higher dry mass for the tanks. That way, delta V would be reduced heavily without bugging with the engines.Ñ„And for Beale and Lack: N-1 reference pics:Block V without fairings:Block B without fairings:Block A:Colour scheme:coloured - olive green/khaki green (I'm not good with English names of colours), white - well, white or light grey. Edited January 31, 2015 by Niemand303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimovski Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 That is absolutely gorgeous.Regarding AB launchers:The rocket equation only cares 'bout the mass. Give the core the mass it's supposed to have, even if it takes less fuel than normal fuel tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand303 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 BTW, one another interesting Soviet project, Chelomei's LKS:http://www.astronautix.com/craft/lks.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 IMHO "Spiral" is better than LKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand303 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 IMHO "Spiral" is better than LKS.http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/spiral7.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/4qTfKTg.jpgIt would be too hard to replicate, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrisK Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 It would be too hard to replicate, though. IMHO "Spiral" is better than LKS.http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/spiral7.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/4qTfKTg.jpgI think that the MIG-105 looks like the bottom of a shoe with wings tacked on. I'm not the only one; its nickname was "the shoe".It would be cool to create a 3 stage separating spaceplane. This is actually relatively easy to do now that I think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand303 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think that the MIG-105 looks like the bottom of a shoe with wings tacked on. I'm not the only one; its nickname was "the shoe".It would be cool to create a 3 stage separating spaceplane. This is actually relatively easy to do now that I think about it.I'd wait with it until 1.0. Also, dat second stage design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimovski Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Ahh we're talking spaceplanes! Now I can clog up the thread with my failures!After hours of swearing Burya has completed it's 1st atmospheric flight, with a top speed of Mach 4:Javascript is disabled. View full albumHowever until I figure out how to disable those control surfaces during ascent, I fear it won't get to orbit (Any help with control disabling plox?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 It would be too hard to replicate, though. Nope, It's all about patience:cool:. For example, this was made in 5 mins. Can you imagine what a wonderful things could me made during one hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand303 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Nope, It's all about patience:cool:. For example, this was made in 5 mins. Can you imagine what a wonderful things could me made during one hour?http://i.imgur.com/DVkYQ9M.pngI'm talking mostly about current aerodynamic physics. And the second stage colliders could be very... tricky, let's say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtedastro Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 will any of the current physics work for lifting bodies??? FAR, NEAR etc???They look great, but will they do anything different than a flying box?Again, they look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrisK Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 will any of the current physics work for lifting bodies??? FAR, NEAR etc???They look great, but will they do anything different than a flying box?Again, they look great.I am not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if Tantares parts act as wings when FAR is installed? If not, can you phrase your question in a different way?It is possible (and easy) to build a lifting body design that works with FAR and NEAR, but not necessarily with Tantares parts. Tantares parts are geared towards rockets, orbiters, and probes. There's no dedicated Tantares spaceplane as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohazard15 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 IMO, it's kinda pointless to do anything spaceplane-ish ATM - with 1.0 and its aero overhaul on the horizon, it's very likely that all spacepane mods would require a major rework.N-1: I like Lack's version, but I don't think that it's a good idea to include such large parts into Tantares. It would require some matching parts (LK, LOK, other) to supply a payload for this monstrosity - and would bring an additional challenge of toying with thrust limiters for FAR\NEAR\DRE users, who would suffer from excessive TWR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjsnh Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 will any of the current physics work for lifting bodies??? FAR, NEAR etc???They look great, but will they do anything different than a flying box?Again, they look great.Kindof. I've made functional lifting-bodies in stock (without any physics plugins) by using wing panels to "shape" the fuselage. Like, instead of using tanks and normal spaceplane parts, I used a ton of the small square wing panels to carefully make the outer "shell" of the lifting body, which was mostly hollow inside (except for a ton of struts). It's tricky to do without having it look stupid, but it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrisK Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Kindof. I've made functional lifting-bodies in stock (without any physics plugins) by using wing panels to "shape" the fuselage. Like, instead of using tanks and normal spaceplane parts, I used a ton of the small square wing panels to carefully make the outer "shell" of the lifting body, which was mostly hollow inside (except for a ton of struts). It's tricky to do without having it look stupid, but it's possible.That is how I do it too. I built a YF-23 by clipping around 140 wings together. It is time-consuming, but it works in FAR and should work in stock.I'm not going to go back through this thread to find it, but at one point I built a number of effective spaceplanes by wrapping+clipping wings around a full Tantares Soyuz module. It creates a nice, functional shuttle/spaceplane that meets the requirements of many of the career mode orbital station missions.As an aside, the smallest/top Salyut block from Tantares works well as an alternative to a structural fuselage. It gives some reaction wheel ability to the plane, unmanned capability, and TAC resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niemand303 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 IMO, it's kinda pointless to do anything spaceplane-ish ATM - with 1.0 and its aero overhaul on the horizon, it's very likely that all spacepane mods would require a major rework.N-1: I like Lack's version, but I don't think that it's a good idea to include such large parts into Tantares. It would require some matching parts (LK, LOK, other) to supply a payload for this monstrosity - and would bring an additional challenge of toying with thrust limiters for FAR\NEAR\DRE users, who would suffer from excessive TWR.But.... we have LOK and LK in the mod. And for the thrust issues, KIDS is suggested my FAR author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I'd suggest making higher dry mass for the tanks. That way, delta V would be reduced heavily without bugging with the engines.Ñ„And for Beale and Lack: N-1 reference pics:http://space1.ru/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/n1-blok-a.jpg http://space1.ru/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/n1-blok-b.jpg http://space1.ru/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/n1-blok-c.jpghttp://epizodsspace.no-ip.org/bibl/k-r/1993/9-n1-2.gifBlock V without fairings:http://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/04-6.gifBlock B without fairings:http://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/04-7.gifBlock A:http://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/04-9.gifhttp://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/04-8.gifColour scheme:http://www.astronaut.ru/bookcase/article/04-5.gifcoloured - olive green/khaki green (I'm not good with English names of colours), white - well, white or light grey.Very nice! Many thanks.Lack has been incredibly generous and supplied the models for the N-1, so it could be coming along a lot sooner! That is absolutely gorgeous.Regarding AB launchers:The rocket equation only cares 'bout the mass. Give the core the mass it's supposed to have, even if it takes less fuel than normal fuel tanks.I think the main desire is to keep the fuel tanks balanced against stock, if they have significantly less fuel to size ratio than stock tanks there is little reason to use them, it is a bugger of a problem .BTW, one another interesting Soviet project, Chelomei's LKS:http://cropman.ru/idei/aik/images/aik_38.jpghttp://cropman.ru/idei/aik/images/aik_40.jpghttp://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29809.0;attach=447570;imagehttp://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29809.0;attach=447574;imagehttp://www.astronautix.com/craft/lks.htmIt's a mini-Buran?Although, being launched on a Proton, that is really cool! I like that a lot...IMHO "Spiral" is better than LKS.http://www.buran.ru/images/gif/spiral7.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/4qTfKTg.jpgThe Spiral is cute, but was it a one seater only? I do not see much use if that was the case.Also, I guess it was not able to dock with stations?Great Kessler Syndrome machine though.Ahh we're talking spaceplanes! Now I can clog up the thread with my failures!After hours of swearing Burya has completed it's 1st atmospheric flight, with a top speed of Mach 4:http://imgur.com/a/2P87IHowever until I figure out how to disable those control surfaces during ascent, I fear it won't get to orbit (Any help with control disabling plox?)Is that an N-I (N-II?) launched spaceplane? I cannot help you the the control surfaces, I am having endless spaceplane woes myselfN-1: I like Lack's version, but I don't think that it's a good idea to include such large parts into Tantares. It would require some matching parts (LK, LOK, other) to supply a payload for this monstrosity - and would bring an additional challenge of toying with thrust limiters for FAR\NEAR\DRE users, who would suffer from excessive TWR.I am not totally sure what you mean, there is already an LK and LOK, so an N-I seems quite a nice fit. The FAR/NEAR stuff, yeah this could be an issue. But, hopefully balancing will make it manageable without further tweaking.Edit: Niemand has ninja'd me! Edited January 31, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 So!The basic TKS components are "finished". That's nice.The bottom part was surprisingly horrible to texture, lots of distortion problems initially, but they seem to be solved.It all fits on one texture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimovski Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Wow! That's quite an accomplishment.And yes, that was a N-II. It flopped majestically a couple of seconds after the screenshot was taken.After going through the pain of making the darn thing stable (http://imgur.com/QNSPbnu), it turned out that it was unable to survive reentry.Thank God the chief designer of that abomination (plane and wing thingies on the rocket), Jorbin Kerman, was piloting the Burya. Everyone in the mission control room was grinning when the failcraft rammed it's designer with Mach 6 into the sea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtquarquesso Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Looks great! Any chance we're getting a triple-nozzled RCS block for the aft end of the TKS based modules that's viable for orbital maneuvers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Thai Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Don't forget, not everyone here understands Russian, so just for info: between Energia and Falcon Heavy there is a Vulkan, and between Falcon Heavy and SLS there is a rocket named "Vilyuy", Russian proposed heavy launcher. But I've never heard about Vilyuy, possibly one of those many proposals that exist only in rumours. The last one, however, seems interesting.That's image taken from article about "Vilyuy". It's just project by space-fan (I think so) like we all on this forum:D.One of the feature of that project is asparagus staging (in original manner): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Looks great! Any chance we're getting a triple-nozzled RCS block for the aft end of the TKS based modules that's viable for orbital maneuvers?Eh, maybe, or perhaps I can say use the Soyuz one.It'll depend on how test flights go That's image taken from article about "Vilyuy". It's just project by space-fan (I think so) like we all on this forum:D.One of the feature of that project is asparagus staging (in original manner):http://pics.livejournal.com/rotkringel/pic/0009yc7bCool! Any renders of the full thing? Looks like it could be a pretty nice design.Wow! That's quite an accomplishment.And yes, that was a N-II. It flopped majestically a couple of seconds after the screenshot was taken.After going through the pain of making the darn thing stable (http://imgur.com/QNSPbnu), it turned out that it was unable to survive reentry.Thank God the chief designer of that abomination (plane and wing thingies on the rocket), Jorbin Kerman, was piloting the Burya. Everyone in the mission control room was grinning when the failcraft rammed it's designer with Mach 6 into the sea Building a spaceplane is one thing, building a DR capable one is another, I commend your efforts! (Even if Jorbin doesn't).My goodness, it's been a few hours since I last posted an obnoxious dev screenshot, lets rectify that!Tank and babby tank.I actually want to the trouble of creating a separate mesh for the small tank, and yet the end result still looks like I squashed the large one by 50%, ah well!Edit: increased shield size of small for easier stacking.- - - Updated - - -A.K.A. day trip to Duna.Still a few TKS parts left, but it's complete enough now to play around with...Orbit around Ike.Docking module has the usual lights.Landing...The heavy VA chute pulls most of the work.Snapshot.Just for giggles, it was launched on a Zenit. Edited January 31, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppleDavidJeans Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Are Zenits beasts of nature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beale Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Are Zenits beasts of nature?Beast is... Surprisingly accurate.The gimballing on this AB engine is 3 degrees, higher than any stock engine (I think?).Unlike stock gimbals though, its response speed is not instant, it takes about a second and a half to gimbal by 3 degrees, so it is quite easy to go "full gimball" without seeing immediate results.It makes the Zenit quite a challenging (but rewarding) thing to fly. You really do have to sit up and fly this thing.It just barely gets the TKS into orbit.The cargo bay is a little more useful now, with the extra fuel. Or, you can stick to the double length crew can. It's a very configurable little spaceship now Edited January 31, 2015 by Beale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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