[1.1] RemoteTech v1.6.10 [2016-04-12]

[Dunbaratu]

I'm wondering this too. Kos runs programs stored on a local disk so the only signal delay you should experience is sending the command to execute the program, and reviving any response. But I haven't had time to try it yet and the EC time warp bug caused me to revert so I can't comment on how the latest version handles kos

Erendrake, the current leader of the kOS project, has expressed a strong interest in getting kOS and RT2 to work better together. In principle they should get along well - they seem to perform useful complementary activities. RT2 to control the delay and connectivity with telling the craft to run commands, and kOS to run commands once it gets to the craft. But in practice there's been problems with kOS having a hard time getting RT2 to allow it to 'sanction' all the things it wants to control on the craft. I don't know where the state of this situation is at the moment, and Erendrake won't be around to ask for the rest of the holiday weekend (well, holiday in the US, anyway).

[Aedile]

http://i.imgur.com/TI7XFwY.png

Draft of omni-directional illustration. Thoughts?

While placing sats you have generally 2 things to consider. Planetary coverage/shadow and the distance to other sats. You want your network to be simple, and allow for drift. (there is of course the issue with antennas breaking in atmosphere).

So for absolute coverage anywhere on the planet surface you will need 3 equatorial, and 3 polar sats (provided you have long enough omni antennas to place.

The things which will matter are of course planet radius, sat altitude, antenna range, and the phase angle.

If we are talking about a single sat covering planetary surface.

For example, altitude equal to planet radius (counting from ASL, so in fact 2R). This will cover 120 degrees (from the circle). This will be the maximum phase angle between 2 sats, and you'll have 60 degree bald spot on the poles. If you increase your altitude to 2R (3R from center), you'll cover 141, 3R(4Rfrom center) - 151 and so on.

I'll recommend a mod called Kerbulator. It's great for doing math ingame, (even though you'll need to inpiut the formulas yourself, once). Once you do that, you can just run it for given planet and altitude and antenna, and see the max phase angle for coverage, the uncovered angle at the poles. You could also use it to calculate the required sat distance for given angle. These are pretty basic one liner trigonometry funcs.

IIRC (assuming infinite antenna range, as connecting to other sats will generally require greater range) happens to be approximately 2*arccos(R/(R+altitude)).

While the distance for given phase angle is 2(R+altitude)*sin(angle/2)

Edit: few more tips...

There is a sweetspot. For example let's use 3 sats around kirbin, and the 5000km range antenna. Your the altitude allowing for maximum drift, happens to be around 2000km, your sats will remain connected up to 150 degrees (some 30 degree drift).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Aedile

[TeeGee]

Hey everyone! I've been trying to establish a satellite network over RSS RSO Kerbin but can't seem to maintain connectivity to the prob once it leaves KSC. I do have the multiple launch site patch and whenever I try to connect to the next centre, it doesn't seem to work. Is there a way to create a satellite network in RSS without using manned tugs to push the satellite into orbit? Thanks!

[velve]

Hey everyone! I've been trying to establish a satellite network over RSS RSO Kerbin but can't seem to maintain connectivity to the prob once it leaves KSC. I do have the multiple launch site patch and whenever I try to connect to the next centre, it doesn't seem to work. Is there a way to create a satellite network in RSS without using manned tugs to push the satellite into orbit? Thanks!

Hi, are you sure your communatron16 is not breaking off? This happens now in dense atmosphere. As well as many others. If not all, I haven't quite tested this.

You should use the DP-10 antenna for launch orbit, it has a good enough range to get you into orbit and it does not break under dynamic stress.

[Tortoise]

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and replace AntennaRange with this.

[Duall]

I didn't see this on here, so I'll ask. I'm having an issue actually getting the mod to work. There isn't an option to point dishes at other ones. The icons in the tracking station appear, but seem to do nothing. What did I do wrong?

[Flopasaurus]

Sooo I can't get this mod to work. I have the realism mods installed and have read all the guides. Tell me what am I missing? http://i.imgur.com/QhdCOTN.png is my situation (I hope I got the link right)

There is no connection no matter what, even chilling on the launch pad with the dp-10 antennae with a battery and a core, doesnt work for any rocket build

[Mecripp]

Sooo I can't get this mod to work. I have the realism mods installed and have read all the guides. Tell me what am I missing? http://i.imgur.com/QhdCOTN.png is my situation (I hope I got the link right)

There is no connection no matter what, even chilling on the launch pad with the dp-10 antennae with a battery and a core, doesnt work for any rocket build

Try this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/RT2_RSS.zip Please read the install txt.

[diomedea]

I didn't see this on here, so I'll ask. I'm having an issue actually getting the mod to work. There isn't an option to point dishes at other ones. The icons in the tracking station appear, but seem to do nothing. What did I do wrong?

Hope you mean the icons from the Map Window, as it is from there (the rightmost icon of all the ones added by RT2) you can open the targeting menu for dishes.

[lepla]

one question.

if i don't have the satellite net, does it prevent me from sending EVA reports from the mun?

it seems that all the data that i send from the mun does not give me science points.

[Starstrider42]

I didn't see this on here, so I'll ask. I'm having an issue actually getting the mod to work. There isn't an option to point dishes at other ones. The icons in the tracking station appear, but seem to do nothing. What did I do wrong?

Are you missing ModuleManager? Put the file included in the download package in your GameData folder (and, just to be safe, delete all but the oldest version, though MM was supposed to have fixed that bug long ago). The antennas won't have RemoteTech capabilities without it.

if i don't have the satellite net, does it prevent me from sending EVA reports from the mun?

it seems that all the data that i send from the mun does not give me science points.

Short answer is "You need either a satellite net or a short-range dish antenna (DTS-M1 or KR-7) pointed at Kerbin to send science from the Mun." In the latter case, KSC also has to be on your side of the planet.

Long answer is that RemoteTech doesn't let you transmit reports while on EVA (it's already a feature request, but we won't be getting to it for a while), and if you don't have a connection you shouldn't be able to send science at all, instead of sending it but not getting any benefit. So it sounds like you have at least one bug, maybe two. Please post a thorough description of what you did (preferably including save files and the contents of KSP_Data/output_log.txt, see bug report guidelines) to GitHub and we'll take a look at it.

[Flopasaurus]

Try this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/RT2_RSS.zip Please read the install txt.

It still didn't work, deleted the folders the .txt told me to and still no connection anywhere. no matter how many pre-deployed antennae I put on something

[Yemo]

Hello,

thank you for the great mod!

However I find it very unrealistic that I need 6 Kerbals to control a remote craft.

Can you tell me how I can alter that to 1 Kerbal?

It would be great for realism/roleplaying.

After all a contemporary drone can be flown from one person as well.

Especially for the first steps in space I would like to be able to send eg 1 kerbal to orbit the mun while I send an unmanned probe to explore the surface away from kerbin without spamming satellites. I would only be able to stear the probe while the orbiter has LOS, and only be able to transmit the science if the probe has a link with the Orbiter and the Orbiter has a link to Kerbal.

But that would make the fun!

I understand that such a remote control station could then be used for multiple craft, which might become unrealistic at some point.

But after all, I switch between crafts as a player and can only command one at a time, house rules are always part of roleplaying.

Thank you very much.

[Mecripp]

It still didn't work, deleted the folders the .txt told me to and still no connection anywhere. no matter how many pre-deployed antennae I put on something

Can you post a screen shot ?

[JDP]

...I find it very unrealistic that I need 6 Kerbals to control a remote craft.

Can you tell me how I can alter that to 1 Kerbal?..

It should be coming in a later version. See Issue#84

[Starstrider42]

Specifically, it will probably be in 1.5.0, which should be the release after next (next release, 1.4.1, will be pure bugfixes, and I hope it will be out soon).

I'd rather not restart the "how many people does it really take to control a space probe?" debate. We've had several iterations in the old RemoteTech thread, and none of them got anywhere.

[MarvinKitFox]

Ok, maybe I'm stupid, but what is wrong here?

Running RemoteTech 1.4.0

I have a constellation of comms satellites around Kerbin, using a mix of 88-88 (40 Gm) and KR-14 (60Gm) dishes. Call them C1,C2,C3,C4. And all is well. I have 100% coverage out to MinMus

I have a relay sat at the edge of Kerbin Space, running several GX-128 (400 Gm) dishes. Call it R1. And all is well, and reach this sat from anywhere in Kerbin SOI.

All sats are linked to KSC, their closest neighbors, my outer relay sat R1, and "active vessel"

I have another relay sat of very similar design, also with GX-128's, that has just exited Kerbin SOI. Call it R2.

It is linked to KSC, and R1. R1 is also linked to R2.

Seen from R1, all vessels are linked. (second picture)

However, seen from R2, It shows link to R1, and THEN NOTHING. It is disconnected!

This same connection lasted until the exact moment when it left Kerbin SOI.

All vessels are powered, connected, functional and have ample power. Except R2 now has gone disconnected..

So,, what am I doing wrong?

C1,C2,C3,C4: Close around Kerbin.

R1: My distant relay station. Intended to cover interplanetary space. Note that it is quite happy seeing both KSP/Kerbin and R2

R2: My second relay. Note that it is happy seeing R1, but cannot talk through it to Kerbin.

[dlrk]

Not to restart that debate, but what about one probe can be controlled per two Kerbals in the command center?

[Mecripp]

Ok, maybe I'm stupid, but what is wrong here?

Running RemoteTech 1.4.0

I have a constellation of comms satellites around Kerbin, using a mix of 88-88 (40 Gm) and KR-14 (60Gm) dishes. Call them C1,C2,C3,C4. And all is well. I have 100% coverage out to MinMus

I have a relay sat at the edge of Kerbin Space, running several GX-128 (400 Gm) dishes. Call it R1. And all is well, and reach this sat from anywhere in Kerbin SOI.

All sats are linked to KSC, their closest neighbors, my outer relay sat R1, and "active vessel"

I have another relay sat of very similar design, also with GX-128's, that has just exited Kerbin SOI. Call it R2.

It is linked to KSC, and R1. R1 is also linked to R2.

Seen from R1, all vessels are linked. (second picture)

However, seen from R2, It shows link to R1, and THEN NOTHING. It is disconnected!

This same connection lasted until the exact moment when it left Kerbin SOI.

All vessels are powered, connected, functional and have ample power. Except R2 now has gone disconnected..

So,, what am I doing wrong?

http://i.imgur.com/3AQ3elG.png

C1,C2,C3,C4: Close around Kerbin.

http://i.imgur.com/AqXSwli.png

R1: My distant relay station. Intended to cover interplanetary space. Note that it is quite happy seeing both KSP/Kerbin and R2

http://i.imgur.com/OCKQmvD.png

R2: My second relay. Note that it is happy seeing R1, but cannot talk through it to Kerbin.

active vessel is just a problem it does'nt work outside of SOI

Edited July 5, 2014 by Mecripp2

[MarvinKitFox]

active vessel is just a problem it does'nt work outside of SOI

Ah...

Thanx.

[Creat]

I'm not yet aware of any changes that are already coming in that respect, but can I suggest adding consistency to Active Vessel a priority?

Most problems with RT2 posted here (or anywhere else) have to do with this feature. I agree with those that say it has it's uses, but at the moment the actual use cases are extremely limited due to its limits, which are neither obvious nor explained (or warned about) in the UI.

Part of the problem is also that it's not very obvious why a certain link is (or is not) active when looking at the map, the/only primary tool to diagnose a network. A player controlling a probe/sat currently above the Mün - intended as a relay for crafts in it's shadow - can see the connection to their main network around Kerbin, because those satellites have AV as a target. As far as I know there is no way to see why the connection is made (is it targeted? inside a cone? due to active vessel?). Once he switches to the vessel behind the Mün - which would now need that relay - he get's no connection and doesn't know why. He's not told "Active Vessel: no line of sight", "Out of range" or anything else along those lines. All this could be in a tooltip (if KSP allows that) or drawn as text next to satellites (with a new button in the lower-right corner to toggle this). As a more minimalist and less intrusive alternative, color-coding the relay-satellite-icons (and potentially the lines to the target) could also work. Preferably with a key at the side to explain what it all means, like so:

• Green (normal line): Connect/Targeted'
  
• Green (dashed line): 'Connected/Active Vessel'
  
• Green (dotted line): 'Connectec/In target Cone'
  
• Yellow (normal line): 'LoS Obstruction'
  
• Yellow (dashed line): 'LoS Obstruction/Active Vessel'
  
• Yellow (dotted line): 'Connectec/In target Cone'
  
• Red: same as above, meaning 'Out of Range'
  

Some things are also due to the actual mechanic of Active Vessel (and how targeting planetary objects works). It is severely limited in what it can do, but the idea of it has endless possibilities. From the posts just before mine (which finally made me write this out here), apparently AV only works within the same SoI (and possibly child-SoIs)? Some more wide-ranging limitations, that AV works like a targeted connection and not like a cone: I can't fly my probe to Duna where I have a small relay-network and have my main interplanetary relay at Kerbin targeting AV. It would only try to reach the probe directly but not use the relay network (which would be perfectly inside the cone when centered on the probe).

Things like targeting a planet works great, unless you're in orbit around one of the moons. Why doesn't the cone include 'child-orbits', like targeting Duna checks for targets around Ike? I remember vaguely that these limits were due to performance concerns, but it seems a bit too conservative to me. Even around Jool, iterating over 5 moons should still not be an issue in that regard. This would obviously exclude targeting Kerbol, as that would needlessly check against everything...

Lastly, I do hope I have my facts straight. I've been reading the whole old thread (back when it was the active one) and keep up-to-date with this new one, but that is exactly my point: these things aren't exactly that clear...

Edited July 6, 2014 by Creat

[Boomerang]

Forgive me if I missed anyone going into any more detail on this, but I noticed mention of efforts to make future versions of RT2 more compatible with kOS with regards to the flight computer. And I was wondering if there are plans, even if they're far off, to improve the flight computer to the point where using kOS wouldn't be necessary for more advanced planned piloting, or if it's going to be left as is for now.

I ask because I've looked into kOS and it's not really my cup of tea, but on the other hand, l'd like to be able to play with signal delay enabled as well.

[Duall]

Are you missing ModuleManager? Put the file included in the download package in your GameData folder (and, just to be safe, delete all but the oldest version, though MM was supposed to have fixed that bug long ago). The antennas won't have RemoteTech capabilities without it.

That was it. Good call. Thanks!

[Crimor]

Any chance for modular dishes at some point? Where you can tweak the FoV of it, like make it wider but you lose distance, narrower and you gain it, etc.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Any chance for modular dishes at some point? Where you can tweak the FoV of it, like make it wider but you lose distance, narrower and you gain it, etc.

FoV is a function of transmission wavelength over dish Diameter.

(70*WL)/D

In this relationship, the lower the frequency of the signal (higher the wavelength), the wider the cone. Alternately, the smaller the dish, the wider the cone.

There is an inverse relationship to beam width vs passive dish gain as expressed by

6(D/WL)^2... Where you get more gain the larger the dish is, or the smaller the wavelength (higher frequency).

Technically, you could get away with tweaking FoV and range in a limited fashion by altering the frequency (IoW: the wavelength) of the transmission signal, which is easier than changing the dish. However, in a comm system, dishes are usually fed by waveguides, which tend to be shaped and sized to work best in a narrow range and can only have signals tuned so much in them. Thus, excessive tuning would require ripping the guts of a comms system out and replacing it with new guts. And this is not including the complications that would arise from changing transmission signal frequencies with no regards to spectrum or standards. (In reality, the operating frequencies of equipment are very narrow due to enforced communications rules. Rules set out to ensure equipment and organizations don't interfere with each other all over the place.)

In short: No. Dishes technically aren't modular. They're tuned to a task and you go from there. You get some play, but not to the point I imagine you're thinking.