[1.1] RemoteTech v1.6.10 [2016-04-12]

[Arsonide]

[quote name='FancyMouse']OK I think I finally found out what's the problem - it seems like due to the support for aborted transmission and returning back data, those piece of code has been refactored, and one new event is introduced called GameEvents.OnTriggeredDataTransmission. This event calls the lab/surveyor complete method to finish up the transmission, including adding science. Since it's newly added in 1.0.5, 1.0.4 code will certainly break as is.
So I just added
[CODE]
GameEvents.OnTriggeredDataTransmission.Fire(scienceData);
[/CODE]
Along with a hack to fix NRE, it seems working now.

[URL="https://www.dropbox.com/s/j7rnm3n2l8k2iqt/RemoteTech.zip?dl=0"]zip[/URL] includes my compiled dll and changed ModuleRTDataTransmitter.cs. Take it as you wish. Don't take it as official version or whatsoever - I'm not familiar with either KSP code base or RT code base. All I did is hacking here and there to make it work for myself.[/QUOTE]

Triggered data was added to solve an issue that was already present in 1.0.4 with labs and orbital surveyors. It was not a change related to the transmission power cutoff. There is an issue with this fix though, as you are forcing the triggered flag on ScienceData to true. This can cause some serious issues elsewhere. Please PM me or find me on IRC, and I can help iron out the details. Edited November 18, 2015 by Arsonide

[speedwaystar]

[COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]From the 1.05 patch notes:
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[QUOTE]* Added an option to antenna context menus to manually enable partial transmissions.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]this doesn't seem to be displaying for me, which might be related to the problems FancyMouse is trying to address.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[Rodger]

[quote name='Pronoes']Strange issue and not sure where it belongs exactly. It could very well be my mish mash of mods and tinkering around with stuff but in case it's not and someone says "oh, I had exactly that issue and did this to fix..."
[/QUOTE]

Well I'm having the same kind of problems, but no solution yet. Might be to do with the Tantares antennas I'm using, but I may have also been having problems with a 88-88 as well... Trying to make a probe for a 'test in orbit of sun' contract, and no matter what I try I lose connection before I get past the Mun... Even with two 15Gm dishes aimed at 2/3 of my equatorial relays, on a polar escape trajectory normal to the relay's orbit, so should have constant contact. Frustrating...

[Pronoes]

[quote name='Rodger']Well I'm having the same kind of problems, but no solution yet. Might be to do with the Tantares antennas I'm using, but I may have also been having problems with a 88-88 as well... Trying to make a probe for a 'test in orbit of sun' contract, and no matter what I try I lose connection before I get past the Mun... Even with two 15Gm dishes aimed at 2/3 of my equatorial relays, on a polar escape trajectory normal to the relay's orbit, so should have constant contact. Frustrating...[/QUOTE]

Are you using RO/RSS and which version of KSP?

[leudaimon]

Greetings,

I am using RO/RSS and after the latest update on RSS the ground stations show on different colours (it looks like continuous hue values and not some categorical classification).
Given it is a Remote tech feature within RSS/RO, I wondered I could find some information on the meaning of those colours on the remote tech documentation, but didn't find anything. Any ideas?

[Pronoes]

[quote name='leudaimon']Greetings,

I am using RO/RSS and after the latest update on RSS the ground stations show on different colours (it looks like continuous hue values and not some categorical classification).
Given it is a Remote tech feature within RSS/RO, I wondered I could find some information on the meaning of those colours on the remote tech documentation, but didn't find anything. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]


I've seen this in a cfg / txt file somewhere. They're classifications. 4 colours, off the top of my head something like "Uncategorised" "DSN" "SomethingElse" "BlahBlah" :P Having a look for the file now but no joy.

Edit: Found it!!

[QUOTE][TABLE="class: highlight tab-size js-file-line-container"]
[TR]
[TD="class: blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line"]// Red: Uncategorized[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line"]// Green: ESTRACK / DSA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line"]// Blue: DSN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: blob-code blob-code-inner js-file-line"]// Yellow: Launch sites[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/QUOTE] Edited November 19, 2015 by Pronoes

[leudaimon]

[quote name='Pronoes']
Edit: Found it!![TABLE="class: cms_table_highlight cms_table_tab-size cms_table_js-file-line-container"]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_blob-code cms_table_blob-code-inner cms_table_js-file-line"]// Red: Uncategorized[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_blob-code cms_table_blob-code-inner cms_table_js-file-line"]// Green: ESTRACK / DSA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_blob-code cms_table_blob-code-inner cms_table_js-file-line"]// Blue: DSN[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: cms_table_blob-code cms_table_blob-code-inner cms_table_js-file-line"]// Yellow: Launch sites[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/QUOTE]

Thank you! Any gameplay differences among those (range perhaps)?

[Pronoes]

[quote name='leudaimon']Thank you! Any gameplay differences among those (range perhaps)?[/QUOTE]

Just visual changes AFAIK

[nehlewolf]

Hey all,

I've been following this thread the past few weeks and wanted to contribute by posting my findings. I was having the same transmission issues as most others since the 1.0.5. and 1.6.9 respective updates. I really enjoy this mod to the extent that is has been a game breaker for me the past week or so, as I toyed around with solutions and somehow got it to work.

I've been running ~30 mods on ksp, the two notable ones are obviously remote tech and science alert.

I reverted remote tech to 1.6.8 (and changed the ver file), but to no avail. It was broken with 1.0.5.

I then used @FancyMouse's DLL and things worked as advertised, at least for the first time I used it. Given my (slight) familiarity with the ksp modding environment, @Arsonide brought up a valid point about problems down the road. I am pleased to report that I haven't experienced any, at-least not yet - but I will not be surprised if they arise with the current fix and will post the issues as they come up.

After using FancyMouse's DLL the first time, the game broke to its prior state of intransmittability. I mentioned I am using science alert because it is brought up in several latter posts and after un-installing it (with fancyMouse's dll still active) the game now works as advertised.

So there is my two cents.
If your willing, (back up your saved games first if you aren't starting a new one) install FancyMouse's hot-fix on pg 375.
If you are using science alert - remove it. That is how I got ksp 1.0.5 to run with remote tech 1.6.9 and I hope my experience may help someone out.

big shout out to FancyMouse and Peppie23 for the great work.


p.s. Its my first post, so please be gentle. Edited November 20, 2015 by nehlewolf
sciencealert was specified to have been installed when the game works. edited to uninstall.

[Odyessus]

[quote name='FreakyCheeseMan']I noticed today that science isn't transferring from my mobile lab modules. It says it is - it'll run through the percentages and announce "Done" - but I get no additional science, and the lab still has as much built up as it did before. Any ideas?[/QUOTE]

Same problem here. Reported in the support subforum [URL]http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/139922-Science-Lab-won-t-transmit-science[/URL]

[Pronoes]

Anyone else having issues with ranges of antenna not matching up to what it says on the tin? I've took a Gemini Antenna out of (RSS/RO) Earth's SOI and still had connection. The Antenna is supposed to be 200Mm, yet I've maintained connection well past 800Mm, into the 1000's. Same thing with Ranger Block III Core. That is supposed to have a 2Mm (2,000,000 metres), yet I've got an active connection at 198Mm (198,000,000 metres). Is this an RT issue or do you guys think it is RO/RSS? All on 1.04 KSP and 1.04 versions of mods.

Or am I just missing something and this is perfectly normal?

Edit: Quite possibly I have just noticed RSS has "root" as default in RTsettings config. This would explain the messed up ranges. In the language of my people, "Dat not advanced, dat just confoozing man. Mmmm rocks." Edited November 19, 2015 by Pronoes

[leudaimon]

[quote name='Pronoes']
Edit: Quite possibly I have just noticed RSS has "root" as default in RTsettings config. [/QUOTE]

Exactly that. The Remote tech defines the rules under "root" range model:

[QUOTE]The two antennas can communicate as long as they are within [IMG]https://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/guide/settings/rootmodel.png[/IMG] of each other, where r1 and r2 are the ranges of the two antennas, up to a limit of 100 times the omni range or 1000 times the dish range, whichever is smallest.[/QUOTE]

It means that it is taking the ground station's range also into account, summing the geometric mean of the two ranges to the smaller range. Given ground stations' range is pretty high, you get much more range than the stated in the description on your antenna.

[Pronoes]

[quote name='leudaimon']Exactly that. The Remote tech defines the rules under "root" range model:



It means that it is taking the ground station's range also into account, summing the geometric mean of the two ranges to the smaller range. Given ground stations' range is pretty high, you get much more range than the stated in the description on your antenna.[/QUOTE]

I guess then it's question of balancing fun with realism. I don't know how RL antenna / stations / comm networks work, but the root mode and greatly increased distances seem to take some of the difficulty out of RT.

[charfa]

[quote name='leudaimon'][quote][COLOR=#333333][I]The two antennas can communicate as long as they are within [/I][/COLOR][IMG]https://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/guide/settings/rootmodel.png[/IMG][COLOR=#333333][I] of each other, where r1 and r2 are the ranges of the two antennas, up to a limit of 100 times the omni range or 1000 times the dish range, whichever is smallest.[/quote][/I][/COLOR]
It means that it is taking the ground station's range also into account, summing the geometric mean of the two ranges to the smaller range. Given ground stations' range is pretty high, you get much more range than the stated in the description on your antenna.[/QUOTE]
That's interesting... So if r1=r2=r then maximum range is actually 2r. In general the range is always at least twice the range of the smaller antenna. Anyone knows why Min(r1,r2) term is there?

[quote name='Pronoes']I guess then it's question of balancing fun with realism. I don't know how RL antenna / stations / comm networks work, but the root mode and greatly increased distances seem to take some of the difficulty out of RT.[/QUOTE]
Well, it depends what is the difficult part for you. It allows you to use shorter range antennas than in standard mode, true. But if your goal it to design a mission that uses the smallest antennas necessary then figuring out which combination is the best has now become much more difficult :)

[leudaimon]

[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]In general the range is always at least twice the range of the smaller antenna. Anyone knows why Min(r1,r2) term is there?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I have no idea on how these antennas work in real life, but I would guess the RSS developers tweaked antennas range and chose this type of rule based on real values, or at least to make the experience in communication with probes similar to real life. Maybe there is some discussion regarding that on Real Solar System, but I couldn't find it.

[Rodger]

[quote name='Pronoes']Are you using RO/RSS and which version of KSP?[/QUOTE]

Nope to RO/RSS, and 1.0.5 and 1.6.9.

One thought I had was maybe power issues on my relays, though I'd be surprised (and impressed lol) if RT calculated energy use on the non-active relays... I'm going to try with a new set of better relays next.

[FancyMouse]

[quote name='Arsonide']Triggered data was added to solve an issue that was already present in 1.0.4 with labs and orbital surveyors. It was not a change related to the transmission power cutoff. There is an issue with this fix though, as you are forcing the triggered flag on ScienceData to true. This can cause some serious issues elsewhere. Please PM me or find me on IRC, and I can help iron out the details.[/QUOTE]
Oh sorry I wasn't checking this thread that often. Appreciate the explanation! Although - I'm probably not the best person to discuss this topic. Peppie23 for sure knows much more about everything (code/design/etc.) than me - so probably I'll see if Peppie can establish a direct channel with you, which would be the best option. If nothing happens for a couple of days I can step in and see what I can help.

For this specific "serious" issue - is it about the science with actual experiment, or it's even more than that?

[Phineas Freak]

[quote name='Pronoes']Just visual changes AFAIK[/QUOTE]

No, they have range differences. If you take a look at the "ANTENNA" section of each station you will see that they have different ranges. For the launch sites it is 5 Mm, for ESTRAC / DSA stations it is 1.781 Tm and for the DSN stations it is 114 Tm. All the other "uncategorized" stations have their own range.

All the above apply only for RSS of course.

[Pronoes]

[quote name='Phineas Freak']No, they have range differences. If you take a look at the "ANTENNA" section of each station you will see that they have different ranges. For the launch sites it is 5 Mm, for ESTRAC / DSA stations it is 1.781 Tm and for the DSN stations it is 114 Tm. All the other "uncategorized" stations have their own range.

All the above apply only for RSS of course.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I thought they always had different ranges in rss. I was responding that the colourisation was purely for visual effect to differentiate the categories.

You are right though. I misinterpreted the original question. Edited November 20, 2015 by Pronoes

[Arsonide]

[quote name='FancyMouse']Oh sorry I wasn't checking this thread that often. Appreciate the explanation! Although - I'm probably not the best person to discuss this topic. Peppie23 for sure knows much more about everything (code/design/etc.) than me - so probably I'll see if Peppie can establish a direct channel with you, which would be the best option. If nothing happens for a couple of days I can step in and see what I can help.

For this specific "serious" issue - is it about the science with actual experiment, or it's even more than that?[/QUOTE]

When science data is flagged as triggered, the regular data transmission module will not send it to R&D over time through comm streams. The comm stream messages the player sees are all just for show - it just fires the triggered data transmission event at the end of the transmission and adds the science directly all at once, bypassing the science archives entirely. It will not degrade the science subject as it normally should, so the player could keep doing science in one spot indefinitely without it lowering the amount of science he gains. He also will have no record of this science in the science archives.

The purpose of triggered data transmissions is primarily for science that doesn't come from one particular source. We can't degrade this science, so it is good for things like the science lab that generate science over time.

Fortunately the RemoteTech data transmission module [b]does[/b] still use the comm streams, so this doesn't affect it so much. Though I do wonder if he gets science twice perhaps? Once from the triggered event, and once through the comm stream? Anyway, the "serious" edge case here is the player that uses RemoteTech, and then uninstalls it. Any data that was serialized with this fix in place will be flagged as triggered, and the regular module data transmitter will treat it as triggered data. Edited November 20, 2015 by Arsonide

[FancyMouse]

[quote name='Arsonide']
Fortunately the RemoteTech data transmission module [B]does[/B] still use the comm streams, so this doesn't affect it so much. Though I do wonder if he gets science twice perhaps? Once from the triggered event, and once through the comm stream?[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about regular experiment or lab/surveyor? The problem here is, with RT, stream doesn't add science (this is expected), and after visual show is done, nothing happens (problem). So no duplicate here with my hack. For regular experiment, I think even if we do it twice, because the regular transmission/recover ratio is still honored, and given the current KSP design that second transmission will give you nothing, it might be fine even if there's duplicate.

[quote name='Arsonide']
Anyway, the "serious" edge case here is the player that uses RemoteTech, and then uninstalls it. Any data that was serialized with this fix in place will be flagged as triggered, and the regular module data transmitter will treat it as triggered data.[/QUOTE]
I just checked my Science nodes in RnD scenario inside my .sfs (which includes both transmitted by official RT and my hacked RT) but I didn't find anything suspicious - where is the triggered flag persisted?

[Arsonide]

[quote name='FancyMouse']I just checked my Science nodes in RnD scenario inside my .sfs (which includes both transmitted by official RT and my hacked RT) but I didn't find anything suspicious - where is the triggered flag persisted?[/QUOTE]

Hrm, this is the right question. I just remembered that they do persist, but I didn't think as to how long they persist. They are saved in the modules of the vessel, in science experiments, containers, and transmitters. You mark it as triggered on transmission, so the user would need to quick save in the middle of a transmission, then uninstall RemoteTech to even have a chance to notice this edge case...in which case the antenna part not existing will cause the ScienceData to be destroyed anyway, along with the vessel.

Paranoia on my part, but I'm conditioned to see edge cases a mile away nowadays. :P

[Sigma88]

[quote name='Arsonide']Hrm, this is the right question. I just remembered that they do persist, but I didn't think as to how long they persist. They are saved in the modules of the vessel, in science experiments, containers, and transmitters. You mark it as triggered on transmission, so the user would need to quick save in the middle of a transmission, then uninstall RemoteTech to even have a chance to notice this edge case...in which case the antenna part not existing will cause the ScienceData to be destroyed anyway, along with the vessel.

Paranoia on my part, but I'm conditioned to see edge cases a mile away nowadays. :P[/QUOTE]

Well, if you do that using only stock antennas the vessel wouldn't destroy ;)

[Varsi]

Added my own report to the [URL="https://github.com/RemoteTechnologiesGroup/RemoteTech/issues/511"]issue #511[/URL].
Can others do orbital surveys with the stock survey part? I assume this could be related to problems with the lab.

//Edit
Had I read back the thread a bit I would have noticed FancyMouse had posted a hack to get past this problem in his [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/83305-1-0-5-RemoteTech-v1-6-9-2015-11-10?p=2302292&viewfull=1#post2302292"]post[/URL]. Did work for me as well. Edited November 20, 2015 by Varsi
Possible fix

[leudaimon]

[quote name='Phineas Freak'] For the launch sites it is 5 Mm, for ESTRAC / DSA stations it is 1.781 Tm and for the DSN stations it is 114 Tm. [/QUOTE]

Good to know. That explains why contact of satellites in higher orbit is not constant, depending on location. The behavior always looked strange to me.