[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

[sober667]

so we won't have 1.7 soon? ( Saad face)

[lo-fi]

Depends how you define soon I have a growing list of niggles to deal with when back off holiday, though mostly tweaking and tidying the enormous mess I made when stripping out the stock stuff and implementing my own. I haven't seen anything show stopping back from the testing team yet...

[Gaalidas]

Hey! Get out of here you... you... okay, I didn't think that one out very well. You're on vacation, you shouldn't be lurking around on the forums. The nerve of some vacationers these days, it's despicable. Yeah, that's the word.

[Warq]

Is there a setting to change the speed of the tracks? I just find it boring having to go at 0.2 M/S on them.

[Xaiier]

Hello, I've found a bug with your hover wheels

It appears they don't take into account the current time rate when using electric charge, and so with phys-warp or slow-motion of any sort, they use too little or too much, respectively.

[lo-fi]

Still on holiday, thought I'd check in and see what you reprobates are up to

Thanks, I think I know what's wrong with the resource code. Added to bug list. Tracks do a lot more than .2, you've done something weird there!

[lo-fi]

Holiday almost over. Refreshed, a short and simple bug list to sort out and a hundred new ideas. And hit 5K downloads today not that it means much, apart from being a nice, hefty round number, but still seems kinda cool.

Did a bit of googling during an idle moment with WiFi available; very interesting to see where it's mentioned here and there across the internet along with the referrer stats from kerbalstuff.

Back at it shortly, thanks for all the help an encouragement.

Edited September 25, 2014 by lo-fi

[Mekan1k]

How much longer until we can use antigravity over water?

[lo-fi]

Should be some time next week once I've whacked a few last bugs. Nothing horrific has come out of testing thankfully, which is a minor miracle considering the scope of the next update on a whole, I'm very pleased.

I want to finish off the converting repulsor wheels too, as Justin has done a terrific job with the textures.

I'll see how it goes though... I'm trying something new with them, so I might release 1.7 with the APU as the only new part, then send out the hypno/screw/helical drive along with the repulsor wheels in a subsequent update. The rest of the parts in 1.7 will be the same but with all new code, improved dynamics and more refined configs, plus, of course, water hovering where appropriate. Spanners wonderful landing/snowmobile skid needs inclusion at some point too.

I also have some fresh ideas, though I'm going to keep details quiet for the moment

[lo-fi]

Getting close now. Bug list is shrinking, stuff is stable and I've even managed to work in some sound effects. Struggling for a good wheel sound... if anyone has any suggestions?

Seriously hard work buffing all this stuff up to the standard I want, but if it goes well I think I've got solid foundations for a moving out of the alpha stage

New parts have mostly been on hold while I've been busy coding. Hoping to get back to that soon.

A couple of questions:

What do you use rovers for?

How do you launch them to other planets?

How do you land them?

Would having a launch/lander capsule system be of interest to you?

Is there an existing system you like using?

Pictures, videos, stories, lengthy explanations welcome!

[thorfinn]

> launch/lander capsule system

Do you mean some sort of cargo bay that fits rovers?

I would love it, that would finally solve the problem of carrying a single rover in a manned mission while keeping things symmetrical.

Usually (i.e. the few times I did it) I landed rovers with a skycrane, mostly for ease of stacking and piloting, or made the whole lander into a rover in the manned case. Sometimes the "skycrane" was the manned vehicle - a messy way to solve the symmetry problem, it's fine but usually you need to fix the wheels when "retrieving" the rover.

[lo-fi]

Yes, excactly, though I have more a sort of open frame with fairings in mind, rather than a bay with doors, and it would double as a skycrane. Just ideas really

What do you mean by symmetry problem and fixing wheels?

[Robotengineer]

Getting close now. Bug list is shrinking, stuff is stable and I've even managed to work in some sound effects. Struggling for a good wheel sound... if anyone has any suggestions?

Seriously hard work buffing all this stuff up to the standard I want, but if it goes well I think I've got solid foundations for a moving out of the alpha stage

New parts have mostly been on hold while I've been busy coding. Hoping to get back to that soon.

A couple of questions:

What do you use rovers for?

How do you launch them to other planets?

How do you land them?

Would having a launch/lander capsule system be of interest to you?

Is there an existing system you like using?

Pictures, videos, stories, lengthy explanations welcome!

I use rovers for visiting easter eggs primarily, and if fine print ever supports this mod maybe rover contracts.

I launch them on a vertical stack launcher.

Depends, if its a manned mission, I stick two on the side of the lander (symmetry), if it's unmanned, (like my Vall rover) I land it on a platform.

Yes.

No.

Also, I have found myself building small rovers rather than big ones, so maybe a small set of wheels would be nice? (like from ASET PRC or Packrat).

[thorfinn]

Great! Slowly but surely, all the "missing pieces" of KSP are falling into place... skipping 0.24 and waiting for a few mods to be fully developed was a good idea

"Open frame with fairings" means that panels would be jettisoned after landing to let the rover out? Fine for me. Would you give it some sort of mini-docking port in the center to attach the rover?

With "symmetry problem" I meant the problem of how to carry a single rover on a manned vessel. Hanging it on the side has the obvious drawback that leads some people to carrying two... I used side engines to carry one below the lander, but depositing it on the ground tended to be rough: hence the need to fix broken wheels with the Kerbal pilot, it's just a few clicks of course.

Like Robotengineer, I like minimalistic missions and so would appreciate very much small wheels/tracks for robotic rovers: simple rescales of the existing ones would be perfect, like Procedural Fairings does - it saves memory also

Just one more thing: have you considered making a variable height landing gear? It would make plane design much easier especially in FAR - many KSP planes take off at ridiculous speeds not because they don't have enough wing but because you are often forced to put the main gear in a bad position.

Edited September 30, 2014 by thorfinn

[lo-fi]

Yup, I got ya. I tend to do similar.

I thought I read a thread where someone was developing rover contracts?

There is a huge gap in my range for smaller wheels, so the next set will be small and folding. Small tracks would be cool too, it's a shame I haven't got the remaining RBI models yet.

[lo-fi]

Great! Slowly but surely, all the "missing pieces" of KSP are falling into place... skipping 0.24 and waiting for a few mods to be fully developed was a good idea

"Open frame with fairings" means that panels would be jettisoned after landing to let the rover out? Fine for me. Would you give it some sort of mini-docking port in the center to attach the rover?

Yeah, that's the general idea.

With "symmetry problem" I meant the problem of how to carry a single rover on a manned vessel. Hanging it on the side has the obvious drawback that leads some people to carrying two... I used side engines to carry one below the lander, but depositing it on the ground tended to be rough: hence the need to fix broken wheels with the Kerbal pilot, it's just a few clicks of course.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. Tricky problem carrying a single rover..

Like Robotengineer, I like minimalistic missions and so would appreciate very much small wheels/tracks for robotic rovers: simple rescales of the existing ones would be perfect, like Procedural Fairings does - it saves memory also

Should have TweakScale configs in most of the parts once I've tested it with wheels. Some good ideas for smaller models anyway

Just one more thing: have you considered making a variable height landing gear? It would make plane design much easier especially in FAR - many KSP planes take off at ridiculous speeds not because they don't have enough wing but because you are often forced to put the main gear in a bad position.

No, but it's a nice idea. Will take some thinking about, that one.

[Gaalidas]

Getting close now. Bug list is shrinking, stuff is stable and I've even managed to work in some sound effects. Struggling for a good wheel sound... if anyone has any suggestions?

Seriously hard work buffing all this stuff up to the standard I want, but if it goes well I think I've got solid foundations for a moving out of the alpha stage

New parts have mostly been on hold while I've been busy coding. Hoping to get back to that soon.

A couple of questions:

What do you use rovers for?

How do you launch them to other planets?

How do you land them?

Would having a launch/lander capsule system be of interest to you?

Is there an existing system you like using?

Pictures, videos, stories, lengthy explanations welcome!

So, this is something I've been working on a lot recently, with some pretty epic failures because I really suck at rocket building. That means I suck worse at everything else because really, building a tall rocket that goes upwards is pretty easy compared to something that actually generates lift. Unfortunately, unless you create a pre-made rover with pre-specified dimensions, a rover landing system is enar impossible to pre-build for a specific mod.

On another subject, I have a few things to report about my experiences with the repulsors and wheels. First off, the water repulsion system available in the github works really well. I have yet to experience anything nasty with that. That being said, I have yet to try anything larger than a one-kerbal craft in those situations because my larger designs are too heavy and tend to hit the beach and blow up before they get the chance to repulse water. Remember, I suck at making anything worthy of being manned. Poor Jebediah, but he does so enjoy being blown to bits for science and he just won't die, not for lack of trying.

The wheel groupings are interesting, however I discovered that after using action groups to change the repulsor height I have to manually right click on a repulsor and tell it to apply the settings for anything to actually take effect. It would be great if those updates could happen on their own, or at least if the action group command could include an automated update for other like-grouped units.

Overall though, this pack has ruined all other wheels in existence for me. I just can't handle those rigid wheels anymore. One idea would be the ability to modify the height of the suspension on the other wheels so you could possibly have a large rover "land" by reducing it's ride-height to the point where the craft's hull, or landing legs, could rest on the ground without the wheels affecting motion. Sorta like retracting the landing gear, but with control like what you get with the repulsor height. That kind of feature would save me from having to use Infernal Robotics to handle this situation, which works well enough if you discard having your wheels attachment point in a stable orientation to the hull of the craft.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Gaalidas

[lo-fi]

So, this is something I've been working on a lot recently, with some pretty epic failures because I really suck at rocket building. That means I suck worse at everything else because really, building a tall rocket that goes upwards is pretty easy compared to something that actually generates lift. Unfortunately, unless you create a pre-made rover with pre-specified dimensions, a rover landing system is enar impossible to pre-build for a specific mod.

I guess they're the same kind of technical challenges you get IRL when launching non symmetrical things. No comment on your rocket building skills

On another subject, I have a few things to report about my experiences with the repulsors and wheels. First off, the water repulsion system available in the github works really well. I have yet to experience anything nasty with that. That being said, I have yet to try anything larger than a one-kerbal craft in those situations because my larger designs are too heavy and tend to hit the beach and blow up before they get the chance to repulse water. Remember, I suck at making anything worthy of being manned. Poor Jebediah, but he does so enjoy being blown to bits for science and he just won't die, not for lack of trying.

Its what Jeb is best at. That's good to hear, I'm quite happy with it all. Just got wheel sounds nailed, it's brilliant not having silent parts anymore.

The wheel groupings are interesting, however I discovered that after using action groups to change the repulsor height I have to manually right click on a repulsor and tell it to apply the settings for anything to actually take effect. It would be great if those updates could happen on their own, or at least if the action group command could include an automated update for other like-grouped units.

That's interesting, I'll have a look. Sounds like it needs tweaking.

Overall though, this pack has ruined all other wheels in existence for me. I just can't handle those rigid wheels anymore. One idea would be the ability to modify the height of the suspension on the other wheels so you could possibly have a large rover "land" by reducing it's ride-height to the point where the craft's hull, or landing legs, could rest on the ground without the wheels affecting motion. Sorta like retracting the landing gear, but with control like what you get with the repulsor height. That kind of feature would save me from having to use Infernal Robotics to handle this situation, which works well enough if you discard having your wheels attachment point in a stable orientation to the hull of the craft.

Thankfully, I've found my plug-in flexible enough to run wheels from other packs, or even stock

I'll have a think about the suspension height control, it might not be too hard.

[CDK]

Pretty cool!

[Gaalidas]

I took a look at the source and I think if you just added the collider updater function to the two action group functions, you'd have the problem nicked.

If you think that idea won't be "too hard" I may have an even better one for you that might just drive you nuts, but if you did succeed it would change EVERYTHING!!!

So, I was thinking about the problems with adding all this suspension stuff to stock wheels without having to do a bunch of unity crud. What about a separate part that could do steering and suspension on it's own? The idea was brought about when testing the new ASET rover. His wheels look cool, but I can't use them because they're so... solid. is really sucks. So, I was thinking you could lock the wheel's steering system and stick an intermediary part between the craft's hull and the wheel part which would apply suspension and steering by simply moving the entire non-suspended part. The steering we could make a mock of, without all the cool steering specifics, with infernal robotics, but suspension is another pile of crud entirely.

Something to think on anyway.

[lo-fi]

Oh, now that's a tricky one... One I think could only be solved with IR. Passing the suspension travel info back to the 'suspension' part would be tricky..

Increasing the suspension travel on a wheel is easy via plugin, though, but with the usual way of rigging it tends to make the suspension look all disjointed - that's why I went out of my way to develop my alternative method and get away with massive travel.

The ASET wheels are fantastic, like all his stuff. I might have a poke about, see what's under the hood and what happens when driven with KF plugin The design ought to allow for some decent travel!

[Madrias]

What do I use rovers for? A lot of things. Mobile rocket launch platforms, high-speed repulsor-craft, manned exploration of worlds, and general purpose insanity.

How do I get them from world to world? Very carefully. I build a rover, then build a carrying system for it. It's almost always overengineered, but it will get me nearly anywhere I need to go.

How do I land them? Atmospheric worlds, I use a metric crap-ton of parachutes. Non-atmospheric worlds, a combination of rockets and lithobraking. Yes, I design some landing units to use aggressive lithobraking as a landing method.

Would a custom lander system interest me? Possibly. What would interest me more? A high-visibility driving cab.

As for an existing system that I use... not really. Most of my landing stages are custom. I've been abusing repulsors as soft-landing-devices lately...

[lo-fi]

Cheers dude, this is proving very interesting.

Regarding the high vis driving cab, I believe Spanner has something particularly cool in the works, and after nli2work produced an excellent IVA tutorial, I'm itching to give it a go. The only thing that puts me off is the sheer amount of work with all the props and whatnot. One not to start until I've cleared some other stuff!

Great to know the repulsors are coming in handy for landing too

[Gaalidas]

Oh, now that's a tricky one... One I think could only be solved with IR. Passing the suspension travel info back to the 'suspension' part would be tricky..

Increasing the suspension travel on a wheel is easy via plugin, though, but with the usual way of rigging it tends to make the suspension look all disjointed - that's why I went out of my way to develop my alternative method and get away with massive travel.

The ASET wheels are fantastic, like all his stuff. I might have a poke about, see what's under the hood and what happens when driven with KF plugin The design ought to allow for some decent travel!

That would be awesome stuff. There are a lot of amazing wheels out there that could do with a KF upgrade.

[lo-fi]

Will have a look when I have a free moment. I've just done some tidying and updated the dev repo paths so all the sounds will work. The paths seem to need to be specified relative to GameData for some reason. _{There will probably be a _quiet_1.7 public Release Candidate out later this week, with full release shortly after if the sky doesn't fall on my head.}