parts [1.2] USI Survivability Pack (Formerly DERP) [v0.6.0]

[FiiZzioN]

No worries.

The green arrow is too easy to forget (some people put like.. .twenty of these things on rescue ships). You can already adjust amounts via config, though I do plan on extending that a bit and let people put snacks/etc there instead. Why the aversion to the DLL? plugin code is not unusual in KSP

I'm an idiot, I see the numbers now. I seriously need to wake up before messing with stuff like this...

Ok, now that that's fixed, can we get a Realchute MM config. It says something about waiting for 0.24 to blow over, and, well, it's been a while. Those stock g forces are nuts...

Edited September 10, 2014 by FiiZzioN

[OOZ662]

Didn't he just explain to me that the numbers I quoted from the Module Manager config were used to determine the life support resources included in the pod? Admittedly I still haven't tweaked with them myself, but...

[RoverDude]

Oh trust me, I know about plugins and KSP, I play with an absolute ton of mods and have no problem with .DLL's. I have a problem with them when they don't allow me to customize what I want the craft to include. To me, not allowing the user the add or remove LS resources limits what the player can do. The user should have the ability to decide how much of a certain resource the craft includes, I see no valid reason why this shouldn't be the case. I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

If you still firmly stand behind the notion of letting the DLL handle the resources, at least make a separate version where the player can fiddle with the values. It would also be nice to have the realchute MM config set up since it's been awhile the 0.24.2 release. Though that's a different subject all together.

As said before, I hope you can see where I'm coming from. This is a great mod, but the lack of allowing customization just kills it for me.

As noted - repeatedly - you can tweak the numbers. It's built in. Also as noted, the way it works REQUIRES a plugin. Hell, the way it actually inflates and handles dynamic crew capacity REQUIRES a plugin. If you dislike this, fork it. It's CC. but I am pretty much done with dealing with my gentle and very nice explanations of why a plugin is required for some of the bits of this mod to be continuously met with shock and indignant disbelief.

(Edit)

And no, I absolutely will NOT make a non-plugin version because... wait for it... a plugin is REQUIRED to make some of the core operations actually work correctly. Since you know about KSP and addons, go fork it and have at it.

[FiiZzioN]

You can see my edit, I found the numbers but not with any help from you. I don't know why there's so much hostility when there was none in my post even before I edited it. Just be sure to actually tell people where to find the numbers, not just "in a config". I work in software development, I know that you have to deal with idiots all the time. Though, to counteract that, if you actually tell them where to find the core of the issue or explain to them how to deal with it in detail, then there are normally less problems.

With as many projects that it seems you work with, I would have thought that you would now how to handle situations like that. Seriously, all it would've taken is, "Look in the root folder, click Lifeboat, then PodCapsule. In there, you'll find a config called "PodCapsule.cfg". Open it, find line 88, or find the module "LifeBoat", and edit the values from there".

Now, would that have been so hard? I don't think so. I'm sorry this got you that heated, but if you're gonna handle mods and handle the people that use them, try not to act like a child when people don't understand something about your project. Trust me, there will always be someone who doesn't understand something.

Good day.

This was all the help I was given:

You can already adjust amounts via config

Edited September 10, 2014 by FiiZzioN

[goldenpsp]

You can see my edit, I found the numbers but not with any help from you. I don't know why there's so much hostility when there was none in my post even before I edited it.

Nice ninja edit. Luckily your original post was captured via quote. No it wasn't hostile but it was condescending.

Just be sure to actually tell people where to find the numbers, not just "in a config". I work in software development, I know that you have to deal with idiots all the time. Though, to counteract that, if you actually tell them where to find the core of the issue or explain to them how to deal with it in detail, then there are normally less problems.

With as many projects that it seems you work with, I would have thought that you would now how to handle situations like that. Seriously, all it would've taken is, "Look in the root folder, click Lifeboat, then PodCapsule. In there, you'll find a config called "PodCapsule.cfg". Open it, find line 88, or find the module "LifeBoat", and edit the values from there".

Now, would that have been so hard? I don't think so. I'm sorry this got you that heated, but if you're gonna handle mods and handle the people that use them, try not to act like a child when people don't understand something about your project. Trust me, there will always be someone who doesn't understand something.

To flip this around, if you are familiar with KSP modding, it isn't hard to find the config files yourself. If you need to have your hand held to the point of being told where the file is and the line to edit, you may not want to go mucking with config files to begin with. That will likely end up having those people coming back saying it is completely broken as they tried to do something they don't understand. Kind of a catch 22.

This was all the help I was given:

You can already adjust amounts via config

Yet in your reply (before ninja edit) you talk in such a way that you completely ignored this small, but essential piece of advice, which I would bet was the primary source of Roverdude's ultimate frustration.

He tells you that it can be edited via config, but then you reply with things such as "I have a problem with them when they don't allow me to customize what I want the craft to include." and "at least make a separate version where the player can fiddle with the values." . That sure makes it sound like you can't even follow the simple help that had already been given. So hopefully you can see that part you played in this little exchange.

[RoverDude]

You can see my edit, I found the numbers but not with any help from you. I don't know why there's so much hostility when there was none in my post even before I edited it. Just be sure to actually tell people where to find the numbers, not just "in a config". I work in software development, I know that you have to deal with idiots all the time. Though, to counteract that, if you actually tell them where to find the core of the issue or explain to them how to deal with it in detail, then there are normally less problems.

With as many projects that it seems you work with, I would have thought that you would now how to handle situations like that. Seriously, all it would've taken is, "Look in the root folder, click Lifeboat, then PodCapsule. In there, you'll find a config called "PodCapsule.cfg". Open it, find line 88, or find the module "LifeBoat", and edit the values from there".

Now, would that have been so hard? I don't think so. I'm sorry this got you that heated, but if you're gonna handle mods and handle the people that use them, try not to act like a child when people don't understand something about your project. Trust me, there will always be someone who doesn't understand something.

Good day.

This was all the help I was given:

Your first post and pretty much every single one after that started off as accusatory and hostile. As is this one, but par for the course apparently. But dealing with one person like you once in a while is the price I pay for making mods for people to enjoy (and I daresay most folks around here are used to how generally nice I try to be. It does take quite a bit to actually .... me off). Luckily, since I am in the business of providing free stuff to people, I also get to choose who I support. So it may be best if you don't use any of the USI mods unless you're comfortable with your own self-service support because you just joined a very short list of people who I pretty much will provide no support for on any of my projects.

[FiiZzioN]

Trust me, I can see my part. Why do you think I was apologizing in the previous messages? The previous responses were also sent when I was awake for 4 days straight due to medical reasons, so I am sorry I missed the "You can adjust amounts via config". It may have seemed like a "ninja edit" but I removed it when I found where to values were held. Guess when this was, the day after I had gotten some sleep. His reply and my edit couldn't have happened at any better time. It was ....ing flawless at how close the were to each other.

Also, I know about KSP modding, I know how to look in files and change the stuff I want to. The stupidity came from me not having any sleep and asking questions, waking up and asking another question before I had looked in the files. The edit happened right after I looked in the files.

I can understand what you're saying about the "holding your hand" bit, but I've always done that with any client. If they need help, be as transparent as detailed as possible. It saves time on both ends.

All in all, it was a bad exchange from the both of us. I'll continue to move forward if Roverdude wants to do that same. I'm sorry things where taken the wrong way.

[forsaken1111]

I can understand what you're saying about the "holding your hand" bit, but I've always done that with any client. If they need help, be as transparent as detailed as possible. It saves time on both ends.

I get where you're coming from here. I work in an IT field myself where I have to deal with all sorts of clients, some knowledgeable, some not so much, and some with just enough knowledge to really make a mess. When dealing with clients and customers, we are nice and helpful to them because it minimizes frustration and time required, and because they are paying us or our company. In the modding scene, modders are doing work for free, creating content for your consumption. They get little or no recompense for this outside of 'feeling good' because people like their content and use it. You say RD 'acted like a child' but you had an attitude from your first post onwards which was pretty clearly negative.

What makes me not want to use this mod is how things like lifesupport are handled via a .ddl file. I mean, really?

See that? You've come into the thread already fired up, KNOWING that you are right and that the modder is wrong. He is doing it the wrong way and you are telling him "Really? Why are you doing it this stupid way? Listen to me instead!" and the kicker is that you were wrong, the numbers are configurable. RD's response to your post was to tell you that he hadn't taken offense but that you had come off as quite rude. He told you the reason for the DLL, you apologized, and he said no worries. He told you at that point that you can in fact change the life support numbers in a config.

So please do not go around calling other people out for 'childish' behavior until you check your own attitude at the door. This is free content, not a paid product. It is under an open license which you can fork and change any aspect of yourself. Polite suggestions are, I'm sure, appreciated and given due consideration but attitudes like yours will just foster hostility and ill will.

[sharpspoonful]

so, this is a bit of a pointless lesson in manners, detracting from the mod itself. Most of this should've been taken to PM's. So with that being said, hey RD, love the lifepod. Will this be supported later on as part of your colonization project, like maybe a tug similar to what LLL has? More of a Kerbal-mover, for short-ranged salvage/ ATV type of ship?

Edited September 10, 2014 by sharpspoonful

[FiiZzioN]

If you read down further I acknowledged that. I wasn't functioning at my best due to lack of sleep. As said in my previous statement, I'm willing to move forward and forget this stupid argument as it was spawned because of my stupidity and lack of sleep.

See that? You've come into the thread already fired up, KNOWING that you are right and that the modder is wrong. He is doing it the wrong way and you are telling him "Really? Why are you doing it this stupid way? Listen to me instead!" and the kicker is that you were wrong, the numbers are configurable. RD's response to your post was to tell you that he hadn't taken offense but that you had come off as quite rude. He told you the reason for the DLL, you apologized, and he said no worries. He told you at that point that you can in fact change the life support numbers in a config.

As said AGAIN, I misunderstood things. I wasn't so much saying he was wrong, I misunderstood and since voice tones aren't carried out via forum messages things were taken the wrong way. At the time, I wasn't functioning correctly and I, for some reason, thought the DLL was distributing the LS. That's why I said the things I did. So once more, can we move on from this. I've already said I sorry and apologized but it seems no one wants to hear it.

Edited September 10, 2014 by FiiZzioN

[RoverDude]

so, this is a bit of a pointless lesson in manners, detracting from the mod itself. Most of this should've been taken to PM's. So with that being said, hey RD, love the lifepod. will this be supported lateron as part of your colonization project? Like maybe a tug similar to what LLL has? more of a Kerbal-mover, for short-ranged savage/ ATV type of ship?

The DERP is going to be moved to a larger Survivability Pack, which includes the DERP, the upcoming HERP, my inflatable airbags, some flotation devices that need a home, as well as a bunch of bits centered around crew and crash survivability.

[forsaken1111]

so, this is a bit of a pointless lesson in manners, detracting from the mod itself. Most of this should've been taken to PM's. So with that being said, hey RD, love the lifepod. will this be supported lateron as part of your colonization project? Like maybe a tug similar to what LLL has? more of a Kerbal-mover, for short-ranged savage/ ATV type of ship?

Have you checked out the exploration pack? I've been using that cute little cockpit as a one-man extended EVA pod/people mover. With a bit of RCS it can range pretty far.

If you read down further I acknowledged that. I wasn't functioning at my best due to lack of sleep. As said in my previous statement, I'm willing to move forward and forget this stupid argument as it was spawned because of my stupidity and lack of sleep.

Fair enough.

[FiiZzioN]

Fair enough.

Thanks, now it's just trying to get RoverDude to understand. I have apologized multiple times and not even a word. I genuinely thought it was being distributed via the DLL and that's what caused the whole thing. I've acknowledged it was my fault because at 4 days of no sleep, my brain was mush. It also doesn't help that voice tones can't be heard via message boards. Nothing was said with hostility except the last bit, and who knows, I may have taken something he said the wrong way because of the same reason.

Now I'm just waiting for him to say something because I do want to apologize, but I have a feeling he has me blocked :/. Oh well, at least the thought is there.

[forsaken1111]

Thanks, now it's just trying to get RoverDude to understand. I have apologized multiple times and not even a word. I genuinely thought it was being distributed via the DLL and that's what caused the whole thing. I've acknowledged it was my fault because at 4 days of no sleep, my brain was mush. It also doesn't help that voice tones can't be heard via message boards. Nothing was said with hostility except the last bit, and who knows, I may have taken something he said the wrong way because of the same reason.

Now I'm just waiting for him to say something because I do want to apologize, but I have a feeling he has me blocked :/. Oh well, at least the thought is there.

Doubt he has you blocked, and I wouldn't dwell on it if I were you. He likely considers the matter closed. Most of the community here seems pretty forgiving.

[Nori]

The DERP is going to be moved to a larger Survivability Pack, which includes the DERP, the upcoming HERP, my inflatable airbags, some flotation devices that need a home, as well as a bunch of bits centered around crew and crash survivability.

Oooh. Cool. I for one am eagerly awaiting the "bee free" version of Derp.

Making these Station Science space stations and I would love to attach 4 DERPs to it so they can return home when the science is done without de-orbiting the whole thing. Maybe I should try using the AES pod you just released.. Hmmm

[The14th]

The DERP is going to be moved to a larger Survivability Pack, which includes the DERP, the upcoming HERP, my inflatable airbags, some flotation devices that need a home, as well as a bunch of bits centered around crew and crash survivability.

I'm really looking forward to this one! Am I right in guessing that the floatation devices are the ones that appeared in a Honeybadger test video a while back?

[RoverDude]

I'm really looking forward to this one! Am I right in guessing that the floatation devices are the ones that appeared in a Honeybadger test video a while back?

Correct Different sizes, different form factors as well

[goldenpsp]

The DERP is going to be moved to a larger Survivability Pack, which includes the DERP, the upcoming HERP, my inflatable airbags, some flotation devices that need a home, as well as a bunch of bits centered around crew and crash survivability.

Since people are asking, I figured I would as well. I am guessing (maybe with the airbags) the DERP module might be made to be more useful on non-atmospheric bodies.

As it stands, the DERP works great if you can use the parachute. But it otherwise doesn't have any built in way to land on another body. For example I had tested it as a rescue pod for my Mun orbital station. The idea being if something happened the kerbals could use their DERP modules to evac and land on the Mun where they could join the kerbals on the MKS Mun Base 1

[Nori]

Since people are asking, I figured I would as well. I am guessing (maybe with the airbags) the DERP module might be made to be more useful on non-atmospheric bodies.

As it stands, the DERP works great if you can use the parachute. But it otherwise doesn't have any built in way to land on another body. For example I had tested it as a rescue pod for my Mun orbital station. The idea being if something happened the kerbals could use their DERP modules to evac and land on the Mun where they could join the kerbals on the MKS Mun Base 1

Maybe a alternative PodEngine could be added that is heavier but instead has a tiny LFO engine instead of a Mono engine? Or maybe is basically the same thing but just has more MP and a bigger engine.

Now that I think about it it would actually be pretty easy to just add another CFG file and make a secondary DERP engine. Just alter the thrust, mass and amount of propellent. hmmm.

[goldenpsp]

Maybe a alternative PodEngine could be added that is heavier but instead has a tiny LFO engine instead of a Mono engine? Or maybe is basically the same thing but just has more MP and a bigger engine.

Now that I think about it it would actually be pretty easy to just add another CFG file and make a secondary DERP engine. Just alter the thrust, mass and amount of propellent. hmmm.

You could yes. But I would think an engine with the dV to safely de-orbit and land on places like the Mun would be far larger. I think it could be a cool idea to have a Derp module that had the inflatable airbags to safely land and bounce off the surface.

[forsaken1111]

You could yes. But I would think an engine with the dV to safely de-orbit and land on places like the Mun would be far larger. I think it could be a cool idea to have a Derp module that had the inflatable airbags to safely land and bounce off the surface.

It wouldn't take a lot of fuel to de-orbit something the size of the DERP.

[Nori]

You could yes. But I would think an engine with the dV to safely de-orbit and land on places like the Mun would be far larger. I think it could be a cool idea to have a Derp module that had the inflatable airbags to safely land and bounce off the surface.

Yeah, now that I think about it the module would have to be probably 4-6x larger to land on the Mun.

I seem to recall the RoverDude has a airbag mod... So that could be a possibility, though methinks it would still have to be a larger engine (I mean landing via airbag at insane speeds is very kerbal, but we don't want em bouncing a few KM in the process).

[goldenpsp]

It wouldn't take a lot of fuel to de-orbit something the size of the DERP.

It doesn't take much. But in tests there is nowhere near enough to slow your descent to anywhere near safe levels.

[forsaken1111]

It doesn't take much. But in tests there is nowhere near enough to slow your descent to anywhere near safe levels.

Oh no I didn't mean to imply the built in RCS engine could do it. I think that is just for getting the hell away from whatever you are abandoning (ship, station, etc). I was thinking that you could probably strap on one of the tiny probe engine/fuel tank combos though.

[PresidentBacon]

Could we possibly get a redesign on the parachute? The parts definitely fit the stock KSP style, but the parachute feels very out of place, especially against the stock parachutes.