[0.25] Realism Overhaul w/ RedAV8R [Terminated]

[Jetwave]

@NK+Red: So, what I'm getting from NK's post is that he wants something similar to RPL. A tech tree with various different branches that are mostly unrelated, so you could advance a lot in one type of science before another, but you wouldn't get the benefits from the other that you weren't focusing on.

Perhaps if the tree is separated into different branches of science, there could be different types of science points used on the different types of science? Those new types of science could be gained through contracts to test parts, or for using parts from the same class of science.

One compromise between science-based science and time-based science would be to use a mechanic similar to how certain RTS games do science, namely Rise of Nations. In that game, you have to collect enough resources (science points) to research it, then once you select it for research you have to wait for it to finish researching before you could use it. Red mentioned something about reputation levels before, and having some sort of threshold that once you reach that, you gain a star or something. If that were implemented, it could be used to speed up research by some modifier for every star you get.

As for the generic techlevels plugin, I might be able to look into it once the tech tree is done. Don't expect anything from me too soon, and I strongly encourage some else to take it and do it faster/better than I could, but if no one does I'll have a go at it.

Just throwing some ideas out there, I don't want to get started on something then realize it was missing something important.

[Traches]

@Traches: You failed to install Realism Overhaul properly, or it's not loading properly

I finally worked it out-- after chopping a config file down to the shortest one that could cause my problem, it all came down to where it's changing engines to use kerosene instead of liquidfuel. Somehow I'd gotten a corrupted/incomplete copy of realfuels, which didn't have all the configs it was supposed to. I wasn't re-downloading the zip file every time I reinstalled, I was just extracting from the one I'd already downloaded. When the RO configs tried to change engine resources and couldn't find them, the whole thing took a dump.

For the record, I never doubted that the problem was on my end; otherwise this forum thread and several others would be blowing up. I was just completely and totally baffled as to how!

Anyway, I really appreciate all the help. Sorry to be a bother.

[R0cketC0der]

I finally worked it out-- after chopping a config file down to the shortest one that could cause my problem, it all came down to where it's changing engines to use kerosene instead of liquidfuel. Somehow I'd gotten a corrupted/incomplete copy of realfuels, which didn't have all the configs it was supposed to. I wasn't re-downloading the zip file every time I reinstalled, I was just extracting from the one I'd already downloaded. When the RO configs tried to change engine resources and couldn't find them, the whole thing took a dump.

For the record, I never doubted that the problem was on my end; otherwise this forum thread and several others would be blowing up. I was just completely and totally baffled as to how!

Anyway, I really appreciate all the help. Sorry to be a bother.

From the log you posted before I can see that you installed RealismOverhaul, but not it's decencies. Without its decencies it will fail to load.

[RedAV8R]

@Traches:I'm glad you got it worked out...Seems I remember telling you this.

Not once. But twice.

@Traches: Um...well you are half there...First, humor me, and get your KSP install out of (X):/Program Files (x86)...Bigger problem...You've also buggered up the install of RealFuels, TAC LifeSupport and a few others. IE, you didn't follow those instructions properly.

....Tells me RealFuels was not installed properly....

Next time, please, when I mention something, it's best to look into it, and not ignore it.

Edited August 4, 2014 by RedAV8R

[Traches]

@Traches:I'm glad you got it worked out...Seems I remember telling you this.

Not once. But twice.

Next time, please, when I mention something, it's best to look into it, and not ignore it.

I didn't ignore you, I reinstalled my entire game and every related mod based on your advice. How often does a downloaded zip file get corrupted?

[Jetwave]

I didn't ignore you, I reinstalled my entire game and every related mod based on your advice. How often does a downloaded zip file get corrupted?

Well when you knew it was RealFuels it probably would've been a good idea to re-download... Download errors happen quite often you know. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why EVE wasn't working, so I re-downloaded it and all the dependencies, and what do ya know, my previous EVE download was missing half the files. Downloading broken mods again is like restarting a DVD player that doesn't work. It's the simplest fix and should be tried first.

[Woopert]

RedAV8R: I know you're really busy with making all the RO configs for the mod packs, but do you happen to have any craft files for FASA, LazTek, and SDHI/Taurus/Aerojet Kerbodyne?

[RedAV8R]

@Woopert: No I don't. I still have not forgotten, it is on the list...but I can't make craft files for things until I ensure things are updated. I am going to ask you stop asking. It's getting beyond just a passing question at this point.

Edited August 4, 2014 by RedAV8R

[Woopert]

@Woopert: No I don't. I still have NOT forgotten, it is on the list...but I can't make craft files for things until I ensure things are updated. I am going to ask you stop asking. It's getting beyond just a passing question at this point.

I didn't claim that you "forgot" or anything... and I wasn't trying to irritate you. I haven't asked for over a month, at least. But, because you asked: I *will* stop asking you.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Woopert

[RedAV8R]

I didn't ignore you, I reinstalled my entire game and every related mod based on your advice. How often does a downloaded zip file get corrupted?

Well when you knew it was RealFuels it probably would've been a good idea to re-download... Download errors happen quite often you know. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why EVE wasn't working, so I re-downloaded it and all the dependencies, and what do ya know, my previous EVE download was missing half the files. Downloading broken mods again is like restarting a DVD player that doesn't work. It's the simplest fix and should be tried first.

It's done, it's over, it's working. Let's leave it alone. I erred in pointing out that I had previously mentioned it. Salt on a wound that shouldn't have been poured...

BUT let this be a tale of caution to everybody, and I need to update the OP...when reinstalling, download fresh copies of the latest versions of everything, lest your original copy be incomplete or otherwise broken.

[RedAV8R]

I didn't claim that you "forgot" or anything... and I wasn't trying to irritate you. I haven't asked for over a month, at least. But, because you asked: I *will* stop asking you.

I know you didn't claim I forgot:) And it's true you haven't asked for a while. The irritating thing isn't you, it's being reminded that I haven't gotten it done, and hitting myself for not being faster. However, thank you for heeding my request:)

[Woopert]

I know you didn't claim I forgot:) And it's true you haven't asked for a while. The irritating thing isn't you, it's being reminded that I haven't gotten it done, and hitting myself for not being faster. However, thank you for heeding my request:)

No worries, no offense taken.

[Jetwave]

Does anyone know where I can find the code for the default tech tree so that I can see how they create nodes?

I don't really want to use TreeEdit for two reasons:

A) It would appear that the owner of the mod has disappeared.

I don't want users to have to download treeloader.

[NathanKell]

Traches: glad it's resolved!

Jetwave: I would highly, highly, highly recommend you simply start from the base that is RPL. Much of the work is already done for you.

r4m0n, who made TreeEdit and TreeLoader, has not disappeared, he's just not terribly active on the forums these days. And unless you want to basically recreate TreeEdit and TreeLoader, you should just use them; the code for the default tech tree is in Assembly-CSharp.dll and you *will* have to write a plugin as extensive as TreeLoader to change it.

[Jetwave]

@NK: You mentioned RPL is up for adoption, do you mean the RftS version, or MedievalNerd no longer wants to work on it? If he doesn't want to continue working on it, I would be willing to take it and make it into a RealEngines tree, possibly with another version for RftS. I've never taken over a mod form someone else before though, how would I go about doing it?

EDIT: So I went and read the RPL thread, probably should've done that before posting here

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jetwave

[mecki]

I don't know if this is a problem of Realism Overhaul or RealFuels or RealEngines or ReachingForTheStars but I'm having small problems with the RS-25 (the SLS Engine from the NASA pack).

When I right-click on the installed engine in VAB, the "configuration" stays empty. The label and the button are there but the actual configuration stays blank. It changes when I click on it. Also the "Tech" changes when I click on it but the number will stay the same until I right-click on the part again.

There are also two buttons for "Show Engine GUI" and for "Tech Level" (though the lower one doesn't do anything).

Two other things I noted (and which I'm neither sure of if intended or caused by the other mod):

Pods are tweakable / scalable.

The MK1-2 Pod has a Life Support for 56d?

[RedAV8R]

I don't know if this is a problem of Realism Overhaul or RealFuels or RealEngines or ReachingForTheStars but I'm having small problems with the RS-25 (the SLS Engine from the NASA pack).

When I right-click on the installed engine in VAB, the "configuration" stays empty. The label and the button are there but the actual configuration stays blank. It changes when I click on it. Also the "Tech" changes when I click on it but the number will stay the same until I right-click on the part again.

There are also two buttons for "Show Engine GUI" and for "Tech Level" (though the lower one doesn't do anything).

Two other things I noted (and which I'm neither sure of if intended or caused by the other mod):

Pods are tweakable / scalable.

The MK1-2 Pod has a Life Support for 56d?

Yep, I caught that (the RS-25) today as well and has been fixed. Need to make a new release soon.

Yep, I caught that (pods tweakable) today too. Fixed that as well.

Well...it has resources for 336hours...you need to set in KSP settings for a 24hour day and not a 6 hour day...otherwise you'll see 56d instead of the proper 14d.

[mecki]

Yep, I caught that (the RS-25) today as well and has been fixed. Need to make a new release soon.

Yep, I caught that (pods tweakable) today too. Fixed that as well.

Well...it has resources for 336hours...you need to set in KSP settings for a 24hour day and not a 6 hour day...otherwise you'll see 56d instead of the proper 14d.

Alright then, thank you!

Well...it has resources for 336hours...you need to set in KSP settings for a 24hour day and not a 6 hour day...otherwise you'll see 56d instead of the proper 14d.

Where would I do that? I thought this was taken care of by one of the mods, sorry.

[RedAV8R]

Main menu - settings - radio button kinda top left hand

[mecki]

Main menu - settings - radio button kinda top left hand

Oversaw it. Thank you!

[Jetwave]

Alright, so I sent MedievalNerd a PM about taking over RPL, we'll see what he says. If he says no, I might be out of luck in terms of creating a new tech tree since the list of trees in TreeEdit has gotten so long that you can't select create new tree anymore, at least that's what the people on the TreeEdit KSPModders forum say, I have never witnessed this create new tree button, another reason I didn't really want to use TreeEdit.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jetwave

[mecki]

Is anyone already looking at the inclusion of the Chaka Monkey Exploration System?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64993-0-23-5-Chaka-Monkey-Exploration-Systems-•-Alpha-5?p=1330833#post1330833

Three other things I ran into I don't know if you are aware of:

The new Aerojet Kerbodyne parts for the Taurus don't rescale well. Also their Heatshield doesn't seem to work with DeadlyReentry.

With the SDHI mod my Mk1-2 pod rescales as before but the node stays the same (making it inside the pod).

Could it be that the Taurus' Heatshield isn't scaled performance-wise?

And: What about this new Tech Tree?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88257-Engineering-Based-Tech-Tree-%28with-flight-first-option%29-WIP-8-3-2014

One more question: What would be the most common way to control the capsule during reentry (since we don't have any more reaction wheels built in)? RCS? Reaction wheels on top? None at all?

I saw the video posted on the OP but maybe there are other ways / new ways for the Taurus / Orion?

EDIT: It should be noted on the OP maybe that DeadlyReentryContinued heat multiplier should be set to 10 instead of 25 (is it correct?)

Edited August 5, 2014 by mecki

[Jetwave]

EDIT: It should be noted on the OP maybe that DeadlyReentryContinued heat multiplier should be set to 10 instead of 25 (is it correct?)

I believe it says in the RSS thread that you need to change DR heat multiplier to 10, it's not really needed in here too.

[mecki]

I believe it says in the RSS thread that you need to change DR heat multiplier to 10, it's not really needed in here too.

In the DeadlyReentryContinued threat it says that you shouldn't change anything. In the RSS thread it says in post #6 that you should set it to 10. This is not very obvious to me and might be confusing to others as well.

Even now I'm not sure what the setting really should be for real-world performance…

[RedAV8R]

Is anyone already looking at the inclusion of the Chaka Monkey Exploration System?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/64993-0-23-5-Chaka-Monkey-Exploration-Systems-•-Alpha-5?p=1330833#post1330833

Three other things I ran into I don't know if you are aware of:

The new Aerojet Kerbodyne parts for the Taurus don't rescale well. Also their Heatshield doesn't seem to work with DeadlyReentry.

With the SDHI mod my Mk1-2 pod rescales as before but the node stays the same (making it inside the pod).

Could it be that the Taurus' Heatshield isn't scaled performance-wise?

And: What about this new Tech Tree?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88257-Engineering-Based-Tech-Tree-%28with-flight-first-option%29-WIP-8-3-2014

One more question: What would be the most common way to control the capsule during reentry (since we don't have any more reaction wheels built in)? RCS? Reaction wheels on top? None at all?

I saw the video posted on the OP but maybe there are other ways / new ways for the Taurus / Orion?

EDIT: It should be noted on the OP maybe that DeadlyReentryContinued heat multiplier should be set to 10 instead of 25 (is it correct?)

Chaka Monkey was on MY list. Now you can see it on THE list. OP Updated.

Well AK/Taurus has been updated since I last got to it, I haven't gotten back to it to repair. So bad results are not unexpected. Solution... Wait.

Again SDHI is the same way, it needs some attention after all these updates. Haven't made it that far yet. Same solution as before. Wait.

What about that TechTree? Sorry, can't read your mind there.

IRL almost every pod, if not every pod has had some form of RCS built in. Here *soon* I will be adding built in RCS to crew pods.

DRE Multiplier...see answer below...

I believe it says in the RSS thread that you need to change DR heat multiplier to 10, it's not really needed in here too.

In the DeadlyReentryContinued threat it says that you shouldn't change anything. In the RSS thread it says in post #6 that you should set it to 10. This is not very obvious to me and might be confusing to others as well.

Even now I'm not sure what the setting really should be for real-world performance…

NO!!! Do not change the multiplier of DRE with RSS/RO. Follow the directions on the OP of threads (DO NOTHING), OPs are constantly updated and you can tell by the 'edit date' on the bottom of the post' Use the most current information. Not the 6th post down that was made nearly a year ago. Lots of things change.