[0.25] Realism Overhaul w/ RedAV8R [Terminated]

[Phylan]

Yeah, from your comments it seems you are on the right track. One tiny thing: 1.4-1.7 is a high initial TWR in real-life, if you aim for that with all your stages, it may contribute to your problem. Normally only the first stage needs a TWR >1, and even it doesn't need it as high as 1.7; a TWR of 1.25 works just fine.

edit: You might also want to take the good advice from RedAV8R and try to build a replica of some real life rocket, that should be instructive.

Yeah that's a good idea, I had half a mind to build a Falcon 9 anyway. I've also come upon a ton of useful data here http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/saturnV.htm (and elsewhere in that domain); primarily my goal is to reliably launch into a roughly circular orbit, rather than fighting with the launch vehicle on the way up and ending up in a 300km x 1,200km orbit. Thanks for the tips everyone!

[peter.alfredsen]

I'm getting no RT2 1.4.1 connection to a 1-part vessel containing only the cubesat core part. All other command pods connect with their 3-km SPU antenna.

EDIT:

@RedAV8R: I've got a preliminary analysis of why it is doing this, but not what the boundary values are. The thing is running out of Electric Charge when full. When I set the @rate of EC consumption in the AIES RO CMD cfg to 0.125, I can get a connection.

Essentially, I think we've hit the a rounding-to-zero error. The @rate in the cfg of 0.0000125 per second is so low that it gets rounded down by the ressource system when the probe requests EC, so 0 EC is delivered, which makes the probe go offline. I'm sure I read somewhere what the minimum amount of ressource consumption is, but it just won't come to me in which thread I read it.

I'm loving your work on RO, BTW.1

EDITx2: Found it -setting @rate to 0.0005 gives me no connection unless I speed up by x2. The boundary value seems to be somewhere between 0.0005 and 0.00054, since 0.00054 makes the probe work for me.

Edited October 4, 2014 by peter.alfredsen
Great Success!

[RedAV8R]

@peter.alfredsen: Thank you so much for doing this work. Makes my life easier, and gets fixes out the door quicker. You are right it's hitting the ALL_VESSEL resource bug. Any resource that is of type ALL_VESSEL requires things to have a usage greater than 0.0005. By greater I mean absolutely anything greater than. 0.0005000001 allows it to work. Maybe/Hopefully this can get fixed in 0.25. Not putting hope on it though. I'll make the appropriate adjustments.

FYI, there are a few other instances around RO that I need to fix this.

[The Czosnex]

Hello, I have a small problem with the mod. I've downloaded and installed all the required mods + Realism Overhaul on a clean install of KSP but I have a bug. The masses of parts don't make any sense. For example the Mk1-2 pod weights 0,3322 tons unlike the Apollo pod http://puu.sh/bZ3tY/10fb2dbe02.jpg

Mk1 pod: http://puu.sh/bZ3Fn/a6710282b2.jpg unlike the Mercury pod

But the Cupola Module weights whole 4,5 tons! http://puu.sh/bZ3H6/1c055ef4a0.jpg

These are just some examples. Here's a screenshot of my Gamedata folder: http://puu.sh/bZ3Sf/3ddc20da56.png

Yes I tried installing mods on a clean install again, so I don't know if I did something wrong or if the masses are supposed to be that way.

Help appreciated!

[RedAV8R]

@The Czosnex: Hello. Thank you! With the addition of RCS to the pods, I reused the configurations from the RCS parts...which had a mass variable in it. Which was overriding the mass of the part. Not intended:) This has been fixed, thank you!

[NathanKell]

On the ALL_VESSEL bug, the floor for setting a rate is > (1e-5 / fixedDeltaTime), or > 0.0005

This is because rates are given as per second, and the physics steps are 1/50th of a second each at 1x warp.

[RedAV8R]

Well that would explain it. I'd heard/seen ">1e5"...but never that second half of the equation. "/fixedDeltaTime". Seems to me then that any rate for ALL_VESSEL resources shall be >0.0005. Thanks for that clarification!

[teal'c]

I don't get the lifting reentry thing. When I look at the youtube vid from the first post I see that the mk1-2 pod has a center of lift that's in a different point than it's center of mass. However, when I go into the VAB and select the mk1-2 pod and add the heatshield, it shows the center of lift dead center. Any help?

[NathanKell]

Sure!

Yeah, it stinks that we're floored at 500mW, but...them's the breaks. However, is there anything other than antennas that have such low power usage? We could ask RT2 to use TaranisElsu's TACLS Resource request code, since that doesn't have the 1e-5 limit (which is not going to be fixed, since it was an *addition*).

The reasoning is this: jet flameout behavior was changed from "whenever there's less IntakeAir than your current throttle setting, flameout" to "thrust scales with IntakeAir available." However, if that's the case, and there's no floor for the resource request, then jets would *never* flame out until >70km, since there would always be an infinitesimal amount of air left, and jets would produce 0.00001% thrust.

There are other, better ways to handle it IMO (for example, modeling jets as jets ) but that's what we have, and I don't think they'll use a different method. It's still better than it was, too

teal'c: right-click on the pod and select "Reentry CoM" when in flight, and the CoM will be offset. This is so that under normal conditions the CoM can be left un-offset, since people were having a hard time balancing their service modules with the pod with an offset CoM...

[The Czosnex]

@The Czosnex: Hello. Thank you! With the addition of RCS to the pods, I reused the configurations from the RCS parts...which had a mass variable in it. Which was overriding the mass of the part. Not intended:) This has been fixed, thank you!

Thanks! I'm glad to help. That bug was bugging me so much (yeah, a pun I know). I recently decided to try my skills with everything as realistic as possible after hundreds of hours in KSP, but then I got that bug

I also forgot to mention that I can't resize Real Chutes at all so I got huge spacracraft with tiny conical chutes.

So the mass problem is fixed already or we have to wait for the next update of the mod?

[teal'c]

Thanks! I'm glad to help. That bug was bugging me so much (yeah, a pun I know). I recently decided to try my skills with everything as realistic as possible after hundreds of hours in KSP, but then I got that bug

I also forgot to mention that I can't resize Real Chutes at all so I got huge spacracraft with tiny conical chutes.

So the mass problem is fixed already or we have to wait for the next update of the mod?

You can resize realchutes by going into the action group window in the VAB and selecting the parachute.

About the lifting thing. I tried descent mode on the pod, but I can't really get it to lift a lot... It doesn't seem to make a huge difference. Should I add RCS tanks so I can shift the weight or something? Or it could be that my pod is too full. Should I dump everything in it for descent?

[The Czosnex]

You can resize realchutes by going into the action group window in the VAB and selecting the parachute.

Oh, thanks, didn't know that

[RedAV8R]

@The Czosnex: Yes, RealChutes controls size of those parts. can be found in the Action Group view within the VAB. It's fixed, in git. I haven't made a release yet, but when I do, it'll be there.

@teal'c: I've changed the CoM for the descent mode. I had nerfed it earlier because people were complaining, now is about twice what it was, and now roughly correct, it isn't much, a foot or so from center, but should be better.

[Motokid600]

So the thrust slider in the VAB... Should I just forget it exists or are there some engines that can be tweaked as such?

[RedAV8R]

@Motokid600: Forget it exists. It doesn't even work with RealismOverhaul/RealEngines. Even if it did, for most realistic use of things, don't use it.

[Hattivat]

Actually, why would you even use it? I mean, if you don't need the full thrust, then why not just use a smaller engine? Less dry mass to carry around this way.

[Motokid600]

Cool, thanks Red. Oh I used the HELL out of it in "stock". Simply because its hard to find the perfect engine and sometimes you just need a LITTLE less TWR on the pad. But with RO that's all out the door and.. I like it.

[coldblade2000]

I know you mentioned the craft repo on the post but you didn't put it anywhere useful. Could you put it in the post bolded and with the link? This is the link BTW: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89614-24-2-Realism-Overhaul-Craft-Repository

[coldblade2000]

Also I found a bug with Deadly reentry, which I'm pretty sure has to do with RO. The decoupler for the 4m heatshiel doesn't reach up enough to cover the capsule and is incompatible with Tweakscale. When I put it on the craft, it starts out at 0.625m and if I scale it up, it becomes about 100 tons worth of mass

[RedAV8R]

@coldblade2000: Craft Repo, now found on the 'other links' post. As for the decoupler mass, already been reported and fixed had to cared to read/search.

[coldblade2000]

Thanks, and sorry for not looking deeper into the thread, usually I always read it but I was tired

[Yalin Hawk]

Hey guys, just wanted to know if this was a known glitch/bug. The Aerojet Kerbodyne ICPS interstage is sized wrong, at the bottom it's 7.3m in diameter not the required 8.4m for the SLS. Tried both that were in the structural tab in the VAB. Also can't use procedural fairings to work around it, since the Aerojet Kerbodyne RL-10-B2 doesn't play well with anything but the Aerojet Kerbodyne adapters/decouplers.

Just a friendly bug report.

[RedAV8R]

@Yalin Hawk: If the interstage were possible to be 8.4m at the bottom and be sized correctly at the top, then I would have done that. It's not possible to scale them differently. That is a limitation of the model itself. Not a bug, not a glitch. Furthermore, you can use procedural fairings. Use the interstage fairing adapter. With the 'extra height' function the fairings work pretty decent. I don't know what you mean by 'play well' regarding the RL-10, seems to work just fine.

[Luscion]

Thanks for the update.Is there a place to download the WorldSpace mod? neither of the links on its thread work

[Yalin Hawk]

@Yalin Hawk: If the interstage were possible to be 8.4m at the bottom and be sized correctly at the top, then I would have done that. It's not possible to scale them differently. That is a limitation of the model itself. Not a bug, not a glitch. Furthermore, you can use procedural fairings. Use the interstage fairing adapter. With the 'extra height' function the fairings work pretty decent. I don't know what you mean by 'play well' regarding the RL-10, seems to work just fine.

Didn't know it was a known issue, sorry about that. And by play well I mean when you attach the engine to the bottom of the DCSS LOX tank it doesn't form the truss and fuel piping if you use a proc fairing to circumvent the adapter sizing issue. All minor graphical concerns, as always you guys do a wonderful job. Keep it up.