As a community, we should be streaming more.

[Worst at Video Games NA]

Look at the most popular, well-funded games right now; stuff like League of Legends, DotA 2, etc. These games have incredibly large streaming communities on sites like twitch.tv.

I think KSP has the potential to share the limelight with games like that if we had a large, enthusiastic streaming community, but whenever I log onto twitch, I see only a handful of people streaming, and they're only getting a handful of viewers each.

Thoughts? Opinions? Discussion? I'd like to hear some theories on why people don't tend to stream KSP as much as other games. If something like Hearthstone can have as massive of a streaming community as it does, so can this game!

I stream occasionally by request, but I don't broadcast my stream much because my crappy computer means I lag really hard when I try to stream, so I don't generally make it above 1-2 viewers. But I know there are people out there much better at this game than me, with much better gaming setups.

[Alshain]

Personally, I think it's the nature of this game. It's too slow, by nature, to be entertaining as a live stream. The YouTubers have to clip out all the in-between stuff to boil it down to 20 minute and one of those 20 minute videos is likely many hours of gameplay. LoL, DotA 2, StarCraft II, even Minecraft is a much faster pace game than KSP.

[Worst at Video Games NA]

Personally, I think it's the nature of this game. It's too slow, by nature, to be entertaining as a live stream. The YouTubers have to clip out all the in-between stuff to boil it down to 20 minute and one of those 20 minute videos is likely many hours of gameplay. LoL, DotA 2, StarCraft II, even Minecraft is a much faster pace game than KSP.

That's a very real concern that I've been thinking about, too. I think maintaining dialogue between the streamer and their audience, and maybe even playing other games during the boring bits (many top-tier League streamers, for example, have to wait 40+ minutes inbetween games and spend that time answering community questions or playing stuff like CS:GO and Hearthstone).

I'm obviously not an expert at this, but it seems to me that a larger streaming base means more casual players, which means more money for devs, which means more and better updates to the game.

[biohazard15]

KSP is a single-player sandbox construction game, not an action-packed multiplayer pile of refuse like DotA. Not many people will be interested in watching for several hours as someone building the rocket.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Personally, I think it's the nature of this game. It's too slow, by nature, to be entertaining as a live stream. The YouTubers have to clip out all the in-between stuff to boil it down to 20 minute and one of those 20 minute videos is likely many hours of gameplay. LoL, DotA 2, StarCraft II, even Minecraft is a much faster pace game than KSP.

I dunno. I regularly get 20 viewers, sometimes as many as 40 when streaming KSP on twitch. KSPTV usually has over 100 viewers when they stream.

I suppose that's not a ton but it's more than nothing *shrugs*

[Alshain]

I dunno. I regularly get 20 viewers, sometimes as many as 40 when streaming KSP on twitch. KSPTV usually has over 100 viewers when they stream.

I suppose that's not a ton but it's more than nothing *shrugs*

I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but Feeds for those other games listed have 10-20 thousand viewers on each of their most popular streams. Right this second, all KSP feeds combined have 57 viewers on twitch. Which happens to be the same watching Final Fantasy VII, a 2 decade old game.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Alshain

[rexscates]

KSP is a single-player sandbox construction game, not an action-packed multiplayer pile of refuse like DotA. Not many people will be interested in watching for several hours as someone building the rocket.

if people watch Cupcake landers videos they are artistic master pieces.

Danny for well doing what Danny does.

and then the players like, wookie, HOC, Elysium, Scott, and many others for the educational and game playing side.

-rex

[Worst at Video Games NA]

if people watch Cupcake landers videos they are artistic master pieces.

Danny for well doing what Danny does.

and then the players like, wookie, HOC, Elysium, Scott, and many others for the educational and game playing side.

-rex

Yeah, Danny and Scott are what made me think of the idea. I would watch either of those two do streams in a heartbeat.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

I don't mean to burst any bubbles, but Feeds for those other games listed have 10-20 thousand viewers on each of their most popular streams. Right this second, all KSP feeds combined have 57 viewers on twitch. Which happens to be the same watching Final Fantasy VII, a 2 decade old game.

Meh, once you get to that many viewers, it has more to do with the streamer than the game they play. I've seen KSP streams have 1000+ people watching before, but it was because of the person who was playing it.

[biohazard15]

Yeah, Danny and Scott are what made me think of the idea. I would watch either of those two do streams in a heartbeat.

Danny, Scott and others don't do streams, they release short movies that take many hours to complete (Danny's in particular). They don't just start up the game and streaming soft. Would it be fun to watch Danny making one of his videos, building all that crazy stuff, breaking and constantly reloading the game? For one time - sure, but as series - I don't think so.

[Worst at Video Games NA]

Danny, Scott and others don't do streams, they release short movies that take many hours to complete (Danny's in particular). They don't just start up the game and streaming soft. Would it be fun to watch Danny making one of his videos, building all that crazy stuff, breaking and constantly reloading the game? For one time - sure, but as series - I don't think so.

I disagree; I think allowing people like Danny to get community involvement ("Okay, guys, what are we building today? How can we do something totally crazy? What new way can we break the game?") could make streams incredibly interesting and encourage regular viewers to come in and offer ideas and opinions.

Likewise, I could watch Scott just drift through space talking about science for hours and ever get bored. The man has a power over me.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Danny, Scott and others don't do streams, they release short movies that take many hours to complete (Danny's in particular). They don't just start up the game and streaming soft. Would it be fun to watch Danny making one of his videos, building all that crazy stuff, breaking and constantly reloading the game? For one time - sure, but as series - I don't think so.

Scott Manley streams sometimes I think, though it's usually on YouTube when he does I think, though he has streamed on Twitch before too.

[4nxs]

What is the fraction of League of Legends, DotA 2, etc players that stream? And what is the fraction of KSP players that stream?

Maybe the numbers are very similar but because there are less KSP players we don't see as many streams.

[Alshain]

What is the fraction of League of Legends, DotA 2, etc players that stream? And what is the fraction of KSP players that stream?

Maybe the numbers are very similar but because there are less KSP players we don't see as many streams.

I think the word your looking for is ratio. But yeah, that's a fair point. I still don't think it would make a big difference.

[Guest]

We're never going to see KSP really increase in streaming without multiplayer.

I think when multiplayer is released, there will be a massive spike. A lot of people would tune in to see some multiplayer action between larger youtubers.

This is why minecraft is great for streaming, on your own, it's going to be boring to watch, however watching a bunch of people goof around/play seriously is far more enjoyable.

Just my opinion :-)

[Xacktar]

We're never going to see KSP really increase in streaming without multiplayer.

I think when multiplayer is released, there will be a massive spike. A lot of people would tune in to see some multiplayer action between larger youtubers.

This is why minecraft is great for streaming, on your own, it's going to be boring to watch, however watching a bunch of people goof around/play seriously is far more enjoyable.

Just my opinion :-)

This is a good point. Interaction is Entertainment. The other thing about KSP is that I think the majority of us are too busy playing the game to tune into to streams that much. XD

[Pecan]

I hardly watch videos - I have better things to do (like play KSP).

I rarely watch videos online - every Gb of broadband costs money.

I barely watch videos of KSP - unless they are short, well-scripted and edited and either make a good point well (eg; Scott Manly, NecroBones*) or are just stunning (eg; Cupcakes)

There's roughly zero chance of me watching someone mumble and bumble through long periods of not really knowing what they want to do/how to do it.

That's just me though - I don't even own a TV and I just don't rate video much, especially when it's badly done. Give me something to read though, or some software, and I'm all over it.

(Semi-seriously) As a community we should be more literate ^^.

(Seriously) Apart from blizzy has anyone written any in-game tutorials? (I really must find out how to do that some time).

[*Thought you might like being put in the same category there mate :-) ]

[boxman]

Danny, Scott and others don't do streams, they release short movies that take many hours to complete (Danny's in particular). They don't just start up the game and streaming soft. Would it be fun to watch Danny making one of his videos, building all that crazy stuff, breaking and constantly reloading the game? For one time - sure, but as series - I don't think so.

I have seen scott stream KSP as well as other games several times, so it is not entirely true that he does not stream.

And yeah I atually would find it fun to see danny or someone else just playing around. I know it aint for everyone, but I actually prefer to watch the whole process including the building as that often can give me inspiration for my own builds.

[Worst at Video Games NA]

I hardly watch videos - I have better things to do (like play KSP).

I rarely watch videos online - every Gb of broadband costs money.

I barely watch videos of KSP - unless they are short, well-scripted and edited and either make a good point well (eg; Scott Manly, NecroBones*) or are just stunning (eg; Cupcakes)

There's roughly zero chance of me watching someone mumble and bumble through long periods of not really knowing what they want to do/how to do it.

That's just me though - I don't even own a TV and I just don't rate video much, especially when it's badly done. Give me something to read though, or some software, and I'm all over it.

(Semi-seriously) As a community we should be more literate ^^.

(Seriously) Apart from blizzy has anyone written any in-game tutorials? (I really must find out how to do that some time).

[*Thought you might like being put in the same category there mate :-) ]

This is a good point, but you have to look at it from the view of a casual player who doesn't know what they're looking at.

For example, I had a friend who wanted to play KSP. Long time fan of space travel, watched the original Carl Sagan Cosmos, but had NO idea what he was doing behind the metaphorical wheel of a spacecraft. He read tutorials and couldn't make sense of abstract concepts like delta v. I got on stream and explained to him what I was doing and why every step of the way, and he grasped it once he saw it being done in real-time in a way where he could ask questions and get involved in the process and visually see what was going on the whole time.

A big, big part of the reason streams in games like League are so popular is because the very top players (the guys actually getting paid to play professionally) can offer professional-tier advice and coaching to tens of thousands of people in real time. It's a learning experience first and foremost, and a good streamer turns the stream into essentially a classroom.

And, to be totally frank, this game has an EXTREMELY high learning curve-- far higher than the vast majority of games. First time players are very likely to get frustrated and give up before they ever get to the juicy stuff. If KSP wants to continue getting new players into the game, we HAVE to figure out how to help novice players bridge this gap; how do you teach someone who's never played before how to get into orbit? If you throw terms like "apoapsis" at them right off the bat, they'll just get frustrated.

Youtube tutorials do a decent job at this, but they fail in the sense that people can't really ask questions and get immediate response. That's where streaming really turns into a very useful dynamic for helping the low end of the player base play catch up with the high end.

[biohazard15]

And, to be totally frank, this game has an EXTREMELY high learning curve-- far higher than the vast majority of games. First time players are very likely to get frustrated and give up before they ever get to the juicy stuff. If KSP wants to continue getting new players into the game, we HAVE to figure out how to help novice players bridge this gap; how do you teach someone who's never played before how to get into orbit? If you throw terms like "apoapsis" at them right off the bat, they'll just get frustrated.

Youtube tutorials do a decent job at this, but they fail in the sense that people can't really ask questions and get immediate response. That's where streaming really turns into a very useful dynamic for helping the low end of the player base play catch up with the high end.

Well, this is a simulation game, after all. Simulators have high learning curve by definition - they aim to recreate experience as accurately as possible, and in the real life, you can't learn how to fly a fighter jet in one day. Besides, most of these games expect that you know about basic operation principles of simulated machine, and in-game tutorials usually based around that. They will teach you how to operate simulated machine, but they won't tell you about its inner workings.

That's why the simulator communities tend to be small, tight and smart: there are people that want to learn, not just play casually from time to time.

[Pecan]

This is a good point ... how do you teach someone who's never played before how to get into orbit? If you throw terms like "apoapsis" at them right off the bat, they'll just get frustrated...

And, of course, you have a very good point too. The way you teach is every way - different methods suit different people. My main point, however, is that streams rarely teach anything because they are not planned and scripted to do so. I'm sure a live lecture or seminar format could be very useful but it still needs to be tightly focussed, as yours was since it was specific to your friend.

[Worst at Video Games NA]

And, of course, you have a very good point too. The way you teach is every way - different methods suit different people. My main point, however, is that streams rarely teach anything because they are not planned and scripted to do so. I'm sure a live lecture or seminar format could be very useful but it still needs to be tightly focussed, as yours was since it was specific to your friend.

Well, the responsibility is two-fold; it's on the very skilled and experienced KSP players to provide high-quality, informative streams instead of just playing how they normally do but letting others watch, and it's on the community as a whole to support the players that do so in order to provide incentive to continue doing so.

Imagine a world in which high-quality, top-tier players could actually make a living streaming KSP, the way top-tier streamers in other games do.

[MR4Y]

I have seen scott stream KSP as well as other games several times, so it is not entirely true that he does not stream.

And yeah I atually would find it fun to see danny or someone else just playing around. I know it aint for everyone, but I actually prefer to watch the whole process including the building as that often can give me inspiration for my own builds.

But you forgot the bullet point of what you said. When Scott Manley does livestream, he doesn't stream KSP for very long and quickly jumps to play other games afterwards. So, his livestreams are not KSP-Centric, as even he is aware that KSP can be a boring game to watch, otherwise we wouldn't have two different types of time acceleration in the game.

Apart from Scott Manley and a few select people, LPers rarely provide useful commentary in their videos, and livestreaming is all about crowd control and keep your viewers entertained.

[m1sz]

If you were to see me streaming how I made one of my robots, 80% of the time would be me standing in front of the Infernal Robotics UI, trying to figure out how to make it work, what parts I have to invert, maximum angles, etc.

What could be fun to watch?, multiplayer of course!

Maybe quick tutorials?, atmospheric flights?, I think so =)

Anyway, streaming seems a little bit complicated in KSP =)

[Superfluous J]

I never enjoy watching streams of anything, and the thought of streaming my own gameplay is a similar turnoff. I much prefer YouTube where the person isn't distracted every 5 seconds by a question or just someone entering chat and actually plays the game. Likewise, I really like the ability to edit out garbage that nobody wants to see so my YouTube videos only drag a little bit don't drag on and on.