Better SSTO Spaceplane Challenge (0.23.5+0.24) Fin!

[O-Doc]

I always shoot overfloater a review through, he was pretty much the only one to say anything about mine

I was tempted to vote for both you and Overfloater but, in my mind, both your craft were being compared to the Condor. This craft has a similar engine and fuel setup but has over 7km/s dV@LKO w/ drop tanks on the XR version. I felt, given the type of craft you were bringing to the competition(long range) that they should have had more dV.

If you're looking for feedback then here goes:

Pros

• Handling is solid
  
• Easy ascent and CoL balancing
  
• Very good engine setup
  
• Range is OK, 3.3km/s@LKO
  
• Wing shape, in general, is nice
  

Cons

• No lights
  
• No docking port(empty tanks should give docking option)
  
• No RCS thrusters
  
• No ladder or ground access
  
• Too much dead weight in oxidizer to carry around
  

EDIT: I might have been me that emptied the tanks while fiddling with CoM in the SPH. I'm not sure...

I could nitpick smaller points but, some of those bigger issues should have been addressed as part of the process of building a complete SSTO. I hope that didn't come off too harsh, I really hate criticizing. It makes me feel like I'm being mean. Howver, you and Overfloater did make my shortlist so, I thought you guys brought some pretty solid kit to the competition.

Edited September 9, 2014 by O-Doc

[Hodo]

I had fun with this, Sirine.

Feel like running a sequel with more tightly focussed categories? E.g. "best FAR sportsplane", "best stock cargo lifter", "best SP+ executive jet", "best long-range science explorer" etc.

The more tightly focussed they are, the better the chance that all of the people interested in that category will have the time and interest to review all of the entrants. It's probably best to split them all into stock vs FAR categories; very few craft work well in both, and not many folks are willing to fly outside of their preferred aero model.

A bunch of categories would also let compulsive designers like me & Hodo enter a bunch of different things without overcrowding a single contest.

I think a solid set of categories for a challenge or contest like this is a must. The range on this one was to broad to really feel like there was more than one winner. While I am sure the O-Doc design is nice, but I will never experience it or others who have FAR, as it most likely will fly like a lawn dart in FAR. But with that aside, if I were judging based on utility I would have picked someones craft that could do more then just reach orbit. Or if it was about cost vs use, or any number of factors.

I loved this challenge it is one of the best ones posted in a good while I think it would could be improved. But I am also nitpicking, it has been one of them days.

EDIT-I left out "more than", don't type when asleep.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Hodo

[Sirine]

@Hodo I dont know. I feel that, most recently the 'challenge forum' are 'lack-of-challenger'. This is noticeable since the "1st contract" comes out.

Historically, 'Eve-Ascend-challenge' will come out often. Most of them are asking for 'stock', and there are hot debate of MJ-ker and non-MJ-ker. But now it seems that everything is cooling down.

You might get the statistic from the Currently Active Users from the bottom of http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/ . Its like having a winter season. Total members that have visited the forum today:: should easily beat 5000.

It is either everybody are busy with their daily life or they have shifted to other games.

I really hope that @Xeldrak can post a challenge, he is a natural-post-attractor. Most of his post are popular, and last very long. Example are the What did you do in KSP today? and various BSC challenges.

[O-Doc]

While I am sure the O-Doc design is nice, but I will never experience it or others who have FAR, as it most likely will fly like a lawn dart in FAR.

Wanderfound flew and reviewed it and he is using FAR. I've found the design is similar to Burt Rutan's Long-EZ which has its design origin's back to WWII. There's plenty of modern examples of this design configuration.

Sirine, like I said before, you need judging criteria to attract people into a challenge. Xeldrak lays out very specific ideas about the requirements the stock craft have and what ways they need to be improved upon.

[Wanderfound]

Just brainstorming, but some other ideas for design challenge categories [1]:

* Best non-space plane.

* Best kerbal-from-orbit rescue plane.

* Best Fine Print aerial survey plane.

* Best satellite deployment plane.

* Best vertical SSTO.

* Best low-tech planes (i.e. science tier <5, tier 5, etc).

* Best FAR trainer.

* Best no-I-promise-this-isn't-a-bomber-honest.

* Best use of Mk3 parts.

[1] Kerbal overdose: I almost spelt that as "kategories" without noticing.

[Hodo]

Wanderfound flew and reviewed it and he is using FAR. I've found the design is similar to Burt Rutan's Long-EZ which has its design origin's back to WWII. There's plenty of modern examples of this design configuration.

Sirine, like I said before, you need judging criteria to attract people into a challenge. Xeldrak lays out very specific ideas about the requirements the stock craft have and what ways they need to be improved upon.

Not saying it is a bad design, but there are designs in this challenge that would not fly in FAR, let alone reach space and come back. While your design looked cool, it was as practical as mine.

[O-Doc]

Just brainstorming, but some other ideas for design challenge categories [1]:

* Best non-space plane.

* Best kerbal-from-orbit rescue plane.

* Best Fine Print aerial survey plane.

* Best satellite deployment plane.

* Best vertical SSTO.

* Best low-tech planes (i.e. science tier <5, tier 5, etc).

* Best FAR trainer.

* Best no-I-promise-this-isn't-a-bomber-honest.

* Best use of Mk3 parts.

[1] Kerbal overdose: I almost spelt that as "kategories" without noticing.

Over the last several weeks I've been giving thought to developing a challenge mod. Basically, it works as a timed challenge to do a circuit. These challenges would come in three flavours:

• Tour: You can only use one craft from beginning to end but can undock sub-crafts for 'stages', timing across whole race with opportunity for time bonus in stages
  
• Rally: You can dock and undock to any craft with only the 'stage' time counting towards the total race time
  
• Marathon: One complete craft from beginning to end with no stages, just a single finish time, you may be able to drop parts on the way.
  

Races can be like the Rebull air racing to rally car driving, for example. There will be part restrictions for the starting craft and 'stage' sub craft so you can actually have driving rallies on Mun and rocket racing out of Eve's atmo, etc. I'm going to pull some code out of Persistent Trails to do the way pointing and time keeping. Most of what I'm going to need will be in that mod.

The loose plan is to have challenges as a config file so people can create their own races using location and part data points.

Not saying it is a bad design, but there are designs in this challenge that would not fly in FAR, let alone reach space and come back. While your design looked cool, it was as practical as mine.

That's mostly why it was the pick of my catalogue: "cool sci-fi looks". I could have brought a utilitarian craft to the comp but Giggleplex has been proving that these types of comps are won mostly on looks.

[Wanderfound]

Over the last several weeks I've been giving thought to developing a challenge mod. Basically, it works as a timed challenge to do a circuit. These challenges would come in three flavours:

• Tour: You can only use one craft from beginning to end but can undock sub-crafts for 'stages', timing across whole race with opportunity for time bonus in stages
  
• Rally: You can dock and undock to any craft with only the 'stage' time counting towards the total race time
  
• Marathon: One complete craft from beginning to end with no stages, just a single finish time, you may be able to drop parts on the way.
  

Races can be like the Rebull air racing to rally car driving, for example. There will be part restrictions for the starting craft and 'stage' sub craft so you can actually have driving rallies on Mun and rocket racing out of Eve's atmo, etc. I'm going to pull some code out of Persistent Trails to do the way pointing and time keeping. Most of what I'm going to need will be in that mod.

The loose plan is to have challenges as a config file so people can create their own races using location and part data points.

I heartily endorse this idea; in fact, I suggested to Arsonide that he add something similar to Fine Print just a couple of hours ago.

Think there's any way you could work some ghost scenery into it? Start/finish line banners, grandstands full of spectating Kerbals, that sort of thing?

Team Kerbodyne Racing will be happy to heavily promote your mod once you've got it running.

[O-Doc]

I heartily endorse this idea; in fact, I suggested to Arsonide that he add something similar to Fine Print just a couple of hours ago.

Think there's any way you could work some ghost scenery into it? Start/finish line banners, grandstands full of spectating Kerbals, that sort of thing?

Team Kerbodyne Racing will be happy to heavily promote your mod once you've got it running.

Those are all good ideas. It's funny because, at the start of the year I wanted to get into some KSP modding but had no idea what I wanted to create. Now I have about half a dozen really solid and unique ideas. Un/fortunately, my business picked up a major and very complicated software contract in July and I've had to effectively shelve my KSP related projects until my brain becomes less tangled and stressed. I'm still half way through Replaceport(similar to KerbalStuff) and it will take first priority once I'm through the pain of my business stuff.

In the mean time, KSP is less about programming and more blowing rockets up for fun. I'm just tinkering with modding to relax and don't expect a project like this to even start getting off the ground this year. Hopefully someone else can use this idea. I will definitely get into it once my life gets normal(I honestly can't remember what that means) and Replaceport goes up.

[shufflermuffler]

I thought you had the most votes? Why didnt you win?

[Sirine]

@shufflermuffler : Because only participant 'vote' are accounted for.

[Woopert]

Could you possibly put up a download for all the craft together? Cheers

[Sirine]

Could you possibly put up a download for all the craft together? Cheers

After prepared all the craft file in a zip. I suddenly realize that if I really do that, I will spoiled the hard-work of all the participant.

Why? because you did not go through their post. The introduction and main purpose of their craft build do means something for them. By skipping all those, you are merely flying craft without their soul. (Intended purpose of their craft build.)