Laythe Capitalism!

[mr_yogurt]

Your goal is to make the cheapest possible self sustaining Laythe bus, with a Laythe bus being a spacecraft that can take kerbals to Laythe, land, and return to Kerbin safely. You are allowed to transfer kerbals to separate spacecraft if you wish. Just remember to include the cost of each space craft.

What you want to do is be able to take people to Laythe and back with the cheapest possible price per ticket that will be able to keep the program running indefinitely. This means that a ticket needs to be able to pay for the fuel there and back, all dropped stages, and the costs of recovery of dropped vessels. If a fueling trip to a station that refuels the Laythe bus needs to happen every 10 tickets, then a ticket will have to include 1/10th of that refueling trip's cost. If a Laythe bus drops stages (not recommended), a ticket needs to include the cost of those lost stages. Note: 1 ticket is for one kerbal, so if each trip takes 2 kerbals and costs 1000 funds (no idea if that figure is realistic. I doubt it) in total, then a ticket costs 500 funds.

Obviously, if the craft can land at the KSC, then you don't have to include the cost of it in the total cost. If it can't, you need to include the recovery costs in the ticket.

You do not have to account for the cost of permanent infrastructure, however. Only things that happen regularly.

Example (arbitrary costs):

SSTO rocket that takes 3 kerbals to a space station that holds the interplanetary bus (also holds 3 kerbals) that can land at KSC: 1000 funds (fuel)

Refueling trip for interplanetary bus - 10000 funds per trip, refueling trip once every ten tickets (fuel is held at station), 10000/10: 1000 funds

Refueling trip for spaceplane at laythe for descent - 30000 funds per trip, refueling trip once every ten tickets (fuel is held at station), 30000/10: 3000 funds

Interplanetary bus has enough fuel to go to laythe and back, SSTO ascent rocket stayed at station until the kerbals got back to take them home.

Total trip cost: 5000 funds.

Total ticket cost: 1667 funds.

Rules:

1. No debug menu.
   
2. Missions with mods will compete for a separate leaderboard than the missions without mods. However, mods that do not affect how rockets fly or add parts can be used in the stock leaderboard. (unless I deem the mod OP)
   
3. This has to be done in Career mode, for obvious reasons.
   
4. You need to document every trip that will be made regularly for this program to be self sustaining with photo evidence (or video).
   
5. Kerbals don't like sitting in uncomfortable seats on interplanetary trips. Seats can't be used on interplanetary trips.
   
6. Your kerbals have to actually be able to walk around on Laythe's surface.
   
7. The difficulty setting for Funds Rewards needs to be at 100%
   
8. No strategies.
   

You are allowed to HyperEdit your permanent infrastructure into orbit, but not trips that will need to be made regularly. Also you can hack funds and science into your career mode if you wish.

LEADERBOARD

Laie - .90 - 43 Funds per ticket

Right - .90 - 53 Funds per ticket

Kulebron - .25 - 66 Funds per ticket

Kulebron - .24 - 95 Funds per ticket

Nao - .24 - 110 Funds per ticket

Zorph - .25 - 133 Funds per ticket

Kasuha - .24 - 170 Funds per ticket

Mesklin - .24 - 245 Funds per ticket

astrobond - .25 - 356 Funds per ticket

Norcalplanner - .24 - 589 Funds per ticket

Laie - .24 - 698 Funds per ticket (Three pilots)

Ziv - .24 - 1376 Funds per ticket (One pilot)

MODDED LEADERBOARD

hoioh - 39 Funds per ticket - .90 - B9

cadaverific - 113 Funds per ticket - .25 - B9, FAR

For people who have completed the challenge: I have an official badge now!

Thanks to Ziv, who made it!

If I've made any errors or if something needs clarification, let me know.

Edited March 7, 2015 by mr_yogurt

[Idrryl]

A very interesting challenge, though I'm not really on speaking terms with Laythe so I don't know if I'll be doing it

[AlexanderB]

Sounds like fun, but it'll be a while untill my fresh 0.24 carreer advances far enough to do this. Gonna try and stay out of the sandbox for a while..

Anyway, bookmarked so I'll be back later with an entry.

[skykooler]

This looks like a cool challenge! I will try it when 0.24 downloads.

[Pds314]

You don't really need to do this in Career mode. Costs are displayed next to the ships. and fuel costs are as follows:

$0.80/Liquid fuel.

$0.18/Oxidizer.

$1.20/Monopropellent (That stuff ain't cheap)

$4.00/Xenon (That stuff REALLY ain't cheap, especially because it weighs 50 times less per unit).

Every kg of fuel a rocket burns costs $0.0918. Every tonne therefore costs $91.80.

[mr_yogurt]

You don't really need to do this in Career mode. Costs are displayed next to the ships. and fuel costs are as follows:

$0.80/Liquid fuel.

$0.18/Oxidizer.

$1.20/Monopropellent (That stuff ain't cheap)

$4.00/Xenon (That stuff REALLY ain't cheap, especially because it weighs 50 times less per unit).

Every kg of fuel a rocket burns costs $0.0918. Every tonne therefore costs $91.80.

Actually, you do. The problem with doing it in sandbox mode is that you need to know recovery costs which aren't shown in career mode.

[Pds314]

Actually, you do. The problem with doing it in sandbox mode is that you need to know recovery costs which aren't shown in career mode.

That only applies if you don't land somewhere were you would get 100% recovery, I.e. the runway.

[mr_yogurt]

That only applies if you don't land somewhere were you would get 100% recovery, I.e. the runway.

Not everyone will land at KSC.

[jonatron5]

Give us b9 and ill have it done in a week.

Becuase its going to be very hard without it

[Tsynique]

Nice idea for a challenge! Diverse, complex, not easy - I like it.

On to the drawing board with my Omega Shuttle.

[jonatron5]

Ok I messed around with this yesterday and its not near as bad as I thought. Im looking at two different designs right now. One ssto the other is a shuttle style. Im having trouble pushing the ssto from highspeed airbreather into orbit.

So I might try the shuttle and assume the drop tanks are resuable.

[Ziv]

I really love the idea and might give it a go when I'll have enough time. My thoughts were:

1. The cost of building and launching the permanent infrastructures should be displayed. It can help a lot if you can send up a lot of stuff for free. Or this could be the hard version. This also will mean how much money does the company have to borrow to start the service. And how soon will it be profitable.

2. All the Kerbals can be passengers and the ship would be autonomous? I would love to have a "pilot" Kerbal too, for unforeseen happenings... But this would affect the cost too.

[LaytheAerospace]

Stock? Meh, what fun are spaceplanes without FAR? I can live without my spacedocks supporting Kerbing <-> Laythe missions, but stock aerodynamics...

Can we have a FAR/NEAR category, too?

[Naten]

Prepare the Laythe Socialists! Prepare the nuclear bombers! Prepare the reconnaissance/AEWCS spy planes! Prepare the drones! Prepare the propaganda! Prepare meat before consumption!

(I agree, stock aero means more wings are better in all cases. More control surfaces also always yield more maneuverability, and small control surfaces produce so much lift they can serve as wings if in groups of three or four.)

[jonatron5]

Hey I was thinking. People dont start busisnesses just to pay for the upkeep on them. They start them to earn money. So I would immagine our ticketsalso need to include enough buffer room to not only pay for the plane but make some profit on it assuming say a 30 year lifetime on the things compound that with the travel time it takes and the waiting of phaseangles for maximum efficiency and everyones ticket cost just doubled at least

[Ziv]

One more important question: is the command seat allowed and if yes then where? Kerbin to orbit, interplanetary journeys, from Laythe orbit to surface and/or back, back to Kerbin?

I'm also strongly suggesting including the ships/stations price somehow because otherwise this will be only a lowest fuel/Kerbal challenge. Optimizing the ship's prices is more challenging!

Edited August 2, 2014 by Ziv

[phantomlord2]

How might i hack in funds?

[Norcurion]

First off: Sounds like a great challenge!

May I also proof the costs by a dry/wet cost comparison in the hangar /VHB assuming i'd proof a landing of the SSTO back at the KSC runway? Seems easier to me, and i would't have to freak out out on the demo flight to save the last bit of fuel and bring it back to Kerbin to save another fund or two

I'd limit the challenge to no external Seats/Laddering etc. (Rule: As soon as an engine is lit, the Passengers have to be on IVA (Otherwise we would only have ion-powered microgliders/ships with one kerbal sitting awkwardly on a ladder or a chair for months

(Or at least make two different leaderboards)

How might i hack in funds?

Open the savegames folder, then the folder of the save you want to change (eg: /saves/mycareersavename), there is a persistend.doc, serch for the entrys with sci and funds, change the variables, save the .doc and reload the savegame in KSP

EDIT: Thinking about it: +1 for the pilot idea, would favour higher passenger counts per flight

Edited August 4, 2014 by Norcurion

[mr_yogurt]

I really love the idea and might give it a go when I'll have enough time. My thoughts were:

1. The cost of building and launching the permanent infrastructures should be displayed. It can help a lot if you can send up a lot of stuff for free. Or this could be the hard version. This also will mean how much money does the company have to borrow to start the service. And how soon will it be profitable.

2. All the Kerbals can be passengers and the ship would be autonomous? I would love to have a "pilot" Kerbal too, for unforeseen happenings... But this would affect the cost too.

1. I wanted to make it so that how soon it becomes profitable is a factor, but it would be too complex for everyone to get the maths right.

2. Well, it doesn't matter. But if you REALLY want to not count the Kerbal who pilots it as a passenger, you can. Although only counting passengers would be more realistic.

One more important question: is the command seat allowed and if yes then where? Kerbin to orbit, interplanetary journeys, from Laythe orbit to surface and/or back, back to Kerbin?

I'm also strongly suggesting including the ships/stations price somehow because otherwise this will be only a lowest fuel/Kerbal challenge. Optimizing the ship's prices is more challenging!

You can command seat anywhere. This is KSP, not Orbiter.

Also if enough people do the challenge I might create a separate leaderboard to include the cost of infrastructure somewhat.

[zarakon]

What about the costs of getting the fuel to the refueling stations?

[Ziv]

yeah, counting the right amount of money for building and maintaining (refueling missions), and also for the different ships used and the dropped parts, fuel used, etc. can be really complex. So I understand if you would skip that part and look at only at the fuel used (or parts dropped, maybe). That makes sense.

By the way I already designed an SSTO with seats and ion engines too. This is funny because it seems like about 5000-8000 xenon will be used (and 150 fuel for the jet), and xenon is more expensive than normal fuel, so maybe xenon will be a very expensive version. We will see!

So, if all the structures are free to deploy then I have some good idea... But PLEASE ban the command seats at least for the interplanetary journeys because otherwise it will be a "who is patient enough to put 50-100 Kerbals into seats which will weight still only 5-10 tons"...

[Norcurion]

working on it!

The Whitecab: ~39 Funds per Kerbal to 150x150 Station

(But im still for banning chairs on interplanetary flights )

Edited August 5, 2014 by Norcurion

[zarakon]

But PLEASE ban the command seats at least for the interplanetary journeys because otherwise it will be a "who is patient enough to put 50-100 Kerbals into seats which will weight still only 5-10 tons"...

I agree with this, chairs should basically never count as "manned" for challenges

[mr_yogurt]

Due to people really wanting me to ban seats on interplanetary trips, I edited the rules as such.

[cadaverific]

Here's a sneak preview of my very much in-progress Laythe SSTO. As of now it is capable of carrying 18 +1 pilot. It's something I've been trying to do for a while so this challenge is a nice incentive to finish.