[1.4] StageRecovery - Recover Funds+ from Dropped Stages - v1.8.0 (March 11, 2018)

[magico13]

Question here, what is defined as a safe level for terminal velocity? Though maybe you can set that.

It is certainly a settable value. For the "Flat Rate Model" which probably nobody uses, it's 10 m/s. For the normal, default setup you start getting some percentage back (plus all science and kerbals) at 12 m/s and you get 100% back (prior to losses because of distance) at speeds less than 6 m/s.

[Afrowolf]

Quick question.

I'm doing survey missions on kerbin, and I'd like to drop off pods from an airplane to do research whilst the aforementioned craft flies home, however StageRecovery keeps on "recovering" them. Is there any way to temporarily disable recovery or better yet, disable recovery for specific stages?

Many thanks in advance.

[magico13]

Quick question.

I'm doing survey missions on kerbin, and I'd like to drop off pods from an airplane to do research whilst the aforementioned craft flies home, however StageRecovery keeps on "recovering" them. Is there any way to temporarily disable recovery or better yet, disable recovery for specific stages?

Many thanks in advance.

Unfortunately, if StageRecovery is recovering them then KSP has already deleted them from the game. Disabling StageRecovery will just make them get deleted without you getting any of the resources back. If that issue wasn't present in KSP, StageRecovery wouldn't need to exist

You have a few options though. The first is to make sure to stay within the physics range of the pod you're dropping (stay within 2km to be safe, physics range is about 2.3km). Just circle your plane around until the thing lands.

The second is to use a mod that extends the physics loading range (and thus can cause more lag by causing more parts/ships to be loaded at once). BDArmory doubles it to roughly 5km, and the Lazor system can extend it to very high values (I think up to 100km).

The last option is to use a mod called Flight Manager for Reusable Stages (FMRS). It uses save file trickery to let you manually control everything you decouple, then merges all the saves together into one.

It's my intention to eventually find a way around this issue, either by letting you declare certain vessels to not unload or by physically landing vessels before KSP deletes them. Kerbal Construction Time has been my main development focus lately, but I intend on spending some time on StageRecovery after I release the next KCT version.

[Vorg]

That auto delete thing is a pain. Those missions that require you to fly over 2 spots and do something on the ground at the 3rd, I tried to do a low fly by and para drop a probe, but the plane was too fast. We need a way in stock to flag a section as a drop probe or something so that it tracks it.

[magico13]

That auto delete thing is a pain. Those missions that require you to fly over 2 spots and do something on the ground at the 3rd, I tried to do a low fly by and para drop a probe, but the plane was too fast. We need a way in stock to flag a section as a drop probe or something so that it tracks it.

That's what I want to do, either as part of this or as a separate mod. There used to be a mod called TTNeverUnload that would extend the physics range for specific craft using a part, so it should be possible to do purely through a plugin. A quick press of a button to "flag" the ship to stay loaded, and another quick press to "unflag" it and put it back to the normal physics range. I just haven't had time to play around with the code for it yet. For StageRecovery I'd want to set it up to be automatic. Anything under sufficient parachute would stay loaded (optional config settings obviously), everything else would unload (including powered landers, since I'm not going to also write a full autopilot mod that could physically land any ship). I'd also provide the option for people to flag a ship to stay loaded (if they were using mechjeb for instance).

But it all comes down to time and priorities. Unfortunately school + work take the number one slot for both of those, followed by KCT, followed by SR. Conceivably the simple "press button to not unload" mod would be faster to write, so maybe I'll play around with that this weekend.

[meyerweb]

I hate to ask what is probably a question with an obvious answer, but how does one bring up the VAB UI? I’m using the stock toolbar, if that’s the difference.

Edited December 12, 2015 by meyerweb
Cleaned up forum migration errors (Unicode and hyperlinking were both botched—sigh)

[futrtrubl]

I hate to ask what is probably a question with an obvious answer, but how does one bring up the VAB UI? I’m using the stock toolbar, if that’s the difference.

You click on the Stage Recovery icon in the stock toolbar. That sends you a message through the stock notification system which you click on to get the info. No real UI to speak of.

[magico13]

Yep, as futrtrubl mentioned you just left click the StageRecovery icon in the toolbar. You'll get a message in the notification system (like you do when things are recovered or you complete a contract) which will give you some info about the current ship in the editor. That's all there is within the editor at the moment, no actual interactive GUI.

[meyerweb]

Yep, as futrtrubl mentioned you just left click the StageRecovery icon in the toolbar. You'll get a message in the notification system (like you do when things are recovered or you complete a contract) which will give you some info about the current ship in the editor. That's all there is within the editor at the moment, no actual interactive GUI.

Oh, okay, then I am doing it right. I thought from the description at the head of the thread that there was more to it than that. Thanks! SR has been a huge help in Career Mode.

[hidconsp]

I love this mod!

One request, though:

Could you add a toggle function? I am using this with Flight Manager with Reusable Stages mod,

and sometimes, it just recovers something I still have to use (i.e. mothership).

Thanks for the awesome mod, man!

[magico13]

I love this mod!

One request, though:

Could you add a toggle function? I am using this with Flight Manager with Reusable Stages mod,

and sometimes, it just recovers something I still have to use (i.e. mothership).

Thanks for the awesome mod, man!

I've already got one in the development builds. I was talking to the FMRS dev about increasing compatibility, but haven't heard from him in a while. I might try to add some compatibility in on my side anyway since I want to start using FMRS in my game as well.

Edit: Well that was fun! The latest development build has the first pass of FMRS support. If FMRS is enabled and armed then StageRecovery won't try to recover anything. Otherwise, it'll behave as normal. There's at least one instance where you can have stages not covered by either mod: FMRS active but no way to control the dropped stage. At the moment I can't think of a way to cover that base other than checking for control manually (but apparently if you've got RealChutes on the stage FMRS still tracks it, so that's a special case I'll have to add a workaround for if I just check for control).

If you want to try out the development build, replace your StageRecovery.dll with the one you can get from here. Be warned that this isn't thoroughly tested and has some other WIP changes that you may or may not want.

Edited March 10, 2015 by magico13

[hidconsp]

GREAT! Thanks for quick fix! I'll try it right away and tell you if there is any problem.

Edited March 10, 2015 by hidconsp

[Sipiri]

I've just installed this mod and I'm having a bit of trouble with the design portion of this mod. I send myself a message of the statistics for the entire ship rather than select stages of the ship. Is there any way I could get the data from a specific stage of the ship? Currently I'm having to place the command pod on each section and design it with the weight of the pod added in, then assemble the whole thing after each stage is designed.

[magico13]

I've just installed this mod and I'm having a bit of trouble with the design portion of this mod. I send myself a message of the statistics for the entire ship rather than select stages of the ship. Is there any way I could get the data from a specific stage of the ship? Currently I'm having to place the command pod on each section and design it with the weight of the pod added in, then assemble the whole thing after each stage is designed.

In short, no there isn't a way of doing that (currently) other than utilizing the full features of the KSP editor. You can make nearly any part a root part, so you don't have to use a command pod (you could use a light probe core, or even an SRB, or even any non-radial part as the root part using the root tool [hotkey 4]). If you want to get an idea of the difficulty of procedurally determining stages, just read today's dev notes. Those guys are professional programmers who are paid to spend their time developing for KSP and it's still a challenge for them.

My suggestions are to use subassemblies once you've got a setup that you know will work, and to use the root tool to make just the section you care about the root part. Any of the "floating" parts in the editor aren't used in the calculation, so you can make a stage the root one, remove all the other parts, calculate everything, then replace and reroot the old parts. Or build from the bottom up, doing the same thing. Or standardize your designs. Or use the real chute mod and manually designate your chutes to land things at the right speed (what I do).

I do want to add better editor features at some point, but it's a lot of work and I don't have the time for it right now. Plus, the current ones work just fine if you take time and carefully design your craft. If you want to quickly build things and toss out stages without testing and other preparation, that'll generally work just fine too, but you'll probably have somewhat lower refunds. StageRecovery is fairly forgiving. The kind of funny thing is that you often end up losing more funds by recovering SRBs than you do by tossing them

Edit: I did a bit more work on FMRS support. StageRecovery should now still recover uncontrolled stages that use stock parachutes (FMRS won't try to handle those) even if FMRS is active. FMRS handles controlled stages and/or stages that use RealChutes on them when it's activated, and StageRecovery will handle everything if FMRS is turned off. This only applies to the development builds.

Edited March 13, 2015 by magico13

[FajarTriRamadhan]

i got a problem here, why does the terminal velocity not reduced even if i have 4 parachutes on my ship ? it value as 100 above, usually, the velocity only just 6 to 8. so yeah my ship parts always destroyed when entering kerbin orbit. oh btw... i found this problem since i start a new save game because i installed kerbal life science mod. here is my mod list...

KSP: 0.90 (Win32) - Unity: 4.5.5f1 - OS: Windows 8.1 (6.3.9600) 64bit

USI Tools - 0.3.2

AutoAsparagus - 0.8

Chatterer - 0.8.1.86

Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - 3.1.2

KSP-AVC Plugin - 1.1.5

Neophyte's Elementary Aerodynamics Replacement - 1.3.1

PlanetShine - 0.2.2.1

Procedural Parts - 1.0.2

RCS Build Aid - 0.6.1

RealChute - 1.3.3.7

SCANsat - 1.1

SmartStage - 2.5

SpaceY Lifters - 0.11

StageRecovery - 1.5.3

Trajectories - 1.1.3

Kerbal Alarm Clock - 3.2.4

TweakScale - 1.52.1

sorry for my bad english.

[magico13]

i got a problem here, why does the terminal velocity not reduced even if i have 4 parachutes on my ship ? it value as 100 above, usually, the velocity only just 6 to 8. so yeah my ship parts always destroyed when entering kerbin orbit. oh btw... i found this problem since i start a new save game because i installed kerbal life science mod. here is my mod list...

Was it working properly before you started a new save? If you're using parachutes from a mod then it could be an incompatibility with that mod. RealChute should still be supported, but it's possibly that recent updates broke something. I would suggest using Real Chute version 1.3.1 (which is actually newer than 1.3.3.7) or going back to 1.3 as the April Fool's Day prank added in RealChute 1.3.3.7 may be creating problems. If you are using CKAN you might need to install RealChute manually until they update to a number higher than 1.3.3.7.

[UnanimousCoward]

Was it working properly before you started a new save? If you're using parachutes from a mod then it could be an incompatibility with that mod. RealChute should still be supported, but it's possibly that recent updates broke something. I would suggest using Real Chute version 1.3.1 (which is actually newer than 1.3.3.7) or going back to 1.3 as the April Fool's Day prank added in RealChute 1.3.3.7 may be creating problems. If you are using CKAN you might need to install RealChute manually until they update to a number higher than 1.3.3.7.

Those bacon chutes from the April Fool's Day RealChute caused my launch stages to tank into the ground at over 100 m/s as well. Stage Recovery also wouldn't give me any message in the VAB when I clicked the button either. I'm guessing Stage Recovery (and the related code in KCT) couldn't figure them out. Updating to 1.3.1 fixed it all.

[FajarTriRamadhan]

magico13 UnanimousCoward damn those bacons ! if only if it was a banana then there's no problem ! i'll be reinstall realchute 1.3.1 after i go to sleep. anyway, thanks for your info guys

[Black-Talon]

I'm running into an issue where some debris is disappearing but not being recovered. Are there known or even intended cases where this would be true? I'm still tracking down the situation in my career but here is my current observation that I can't figure out:

Version 1.5.3 - KSP 0.90 - Plenty of other mods

- 3 Stage Rocket - Sub-Orbital & Atmospheric Flight Only - Simple parabolic flight (testing a part at 27k at low speed)

First Stage takes me to ~15k and ditches in 4 pieces - these later become out of range and SR recovers them as expected

Second Stage takes me to ~25k and separates

Third Stage activates briefly at ~27k

Second & Third Stage are close enough together that they both return to Kerbin without ever being out of physics range. This is ok because the Second Stage had its parachutes activated when it was separated and everything lands on Kerbin without breaking. Both stages land within a couple km of KSC.

Unfortunately, regardless of how I've returned to the Space Center, the Second Stage isn't crediting me with any Funds. Only the Third Stage will. Returning to the Space Center after both stages have landed (I can see and switch to them) without even attempting a recovery causes the Third Stage to disappear. It is not shown as Debris on in the Tracking Station (yes, Debris is turned on). Unfortunately, when it disappears it doesn't credit my funds. Even when I switched to the second stage (after both stages had landed) and clicked "Recover" I didn't get Funds returned.

Perhaps something is bugged with this stage and SR isn't involved - but I'm curious for ideas as I'm continuing to Recover a save file and replay the situation in an attempt to keep my lost funds and learn what might be causing this issue.

Any ideas?

[magico13]

Hmm, that is indeed weird, but doesn't sound like it's particularly tied to SR (if they're both within physics range). SR only activates after a vessel is deleted by KSP, but if both stages remain loaded at all times then it won't activate. I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding what's going on exactly. It definitely sounds weird.

Just for clarification, you've got 3 stages, the first one gets recovered by SR properly, the second and third remain within physics range of each other until they land. After landing (with stages 2 and 3 still within physics range, ~2.3 km). Recovering the second stage doesn't return funds (does it have a probe? Debris, when recovered manually and without any sort of control, won't display an "end of flight" popup but will still add to the funds), returning to the space center makes the 3rd stage no longer appear in the tracking menu (that's pretty weird...) and you don't get funds for it. It sounds like stage 2 doesn't have a control source, but might still be recovering funds properly. I don't know why stage 3, which sounds like it has a probe or command pod, would disappear though. That sounds like a bug, but doesn't sound SR related.

Next time you test it out, send me the logs afterward and I'll check if anything is being reported. Specifically the output_log.txt file from KSP_Data, if possible, rather than the KSP.log file.

[Black-Talon]

Hmm, that is indeed weird, but doesn't sound like it's particularly tied to SR (if they're both within physics range). SR only activates after a vessel is deleted by KSP, but if both stages remain loaded at all times then it won't activate. I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding what's going on exactly. It definitely sounds weird.

Just for clarification, you've got 3 stages, the first one gets recovered by SR properly, the second and third remain within physics range of each other until they land. After landing (with stages 2 and 3 still within physics range, ~2.3 km). Recovering the second stage doesn't return funds (does it have a probe? Debris, when recovered manually and without any sort of control, won't display an "end of flight" popup but will still add to the funds), returning to the space center makes the 3rd stage no longer appear in the tracking menu (that's pretty weird...) and you don't get funds for it. It sounds like stage 2 doesn't have a control source, but might still be recovering funds properly. I don't know why stage 3, which sounds like it has a probe or command pod, would disappear though. That sounds like a bug, but doesn't sound SR related.

Next time you test it out, send me the logs afterward and I'll check if anything is being reported. Specifically the output_log.txt file from KSP_Data, if possible, rather than the KSP.log file.

It is weird and I agree that I'm not at all certain it is due to SR.

I have a new good guess that that places the blame on KSP - log said something along the lines of "... Debris crashed *through* terrain". I decided that was the situation and it wasn't more than a KSP fluke that happened several times.

FWIW - your understanding of the issue is accurate. And yes, the dialogs don't come up as expected...but I noticed the situation because I was logging my incomes/expenses manually and could clearly see that despite the Debris being gone that it hadn't added any recovery funds to my balance.

Since I had a S.A.V.E backup I was able to replace the situation over and over and each time I reflew the mission the Debris would not Fund me despite it not being there and I couldn't figure out why/how. This most recent re-flight of the mission I managed to stay in Physics range of the all stages. Once landed, I returned to the Space Center and all parts were kept this time. Recovering each worked as expected...but as you know this is stock behavior.

I was asking here because I thought it possible the game was unloading the Debris in some niche circumstance that SR didn't catch. A situation where the parts were landed in Physics range near KSC or something... But if they're "crashing through terrain" I'm guessing SR can't do anything about catching them.

If I find the situation again and can get a clean log I'll send it your way. Thanks for thinking it through with me.

[Silent_Thunder]

Just wondering, how does this deal with Deadly Reentry. Is there any way to make things that were jettisoned above what would be considered the average altitude for a burnup considered ineligible for recovery with this when KSP purges it due to draw distance unless there is shielding on it?

[Starwaster]

Just wondering, how does this deal with Deadly Reentry. Is there any way to make things that were jettisoned above what would be considered the average altitude for a burnup considered ineligible for recovery with this when KSP purges it due to draw distance unless there is shielding on it?

From what I can tell, it abstracts reentry damage rather than trying to calculate things. It's not altitude based, it's velocity based where velocities over a certain value decrease the odds of successful reentry. Which is how it should be because velocity is what determines how intense your reentry heating is.

btw magico, rather than using a static threshold, you could use maxTemp. Compare it to velocity - 270.53, which will give you a good idea of the maximum possible temperature that anything should be reaching. (shockwave temperature in Kelvins = velocity in meters per second. -270.53 to convert to Celsius

If you're interested, there's some some useful formula here: https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/designees_delegations/designee_types/ame/media/Section%20III.4.1.7%20Returning%20from%20Space.pdf

Page 16 has a formula for determining maximum heating and the altitude where it occurs. (ignore the graphs; they seem to have left a 0 off of the altitudes implying that maximal heating occurs at 6km which is wrong)

[magico13]

Starwaster is correct in explaining how StageRecovery handles Deadly Reentry. It's not really designed to be correct, just designed to prevent people from getting around Deadly Reentry by using SR to recover vessels (ie. tossing things into the atmosphere at high velocity and using SR to avoid any reentry heating). It also occasionally comes up when trying to recover stages that are dropped from nearly orbital velocities. If you want to make it more likely to burn up, just decrease the DR Velocity setting. I've gone over the formula a few times in this thread, so a search should be able to find it (alternatively you can look straight at the source code). But turning it down to 1800 or so should cause a noticeable increase in burned up stages from near orbital velocities.

Thanks for the ideas + link Starwaster, I'll check them out and consider making the DR related code better, but I'm also not too worried about it since it works well enough for now (for unfocused vessels that people don't tend to care too much about, for the active vessel my method would be silly).

[Wetapunga]

So any news on updating this?