[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[Doctor Axel]

We should probably keep in mind the near future and interstellar are not balanced against each other which means if this mod is meant to be used with both we either need to find a happy medium or maintain two separate balance configurations for people to choose from(or if we pick only one to balance against I vote near future since interstellar has its own resource mining parts)... or we do it the easy way and just balance against stock only with a big "other mods may break ballance" warning sticker for those who care.

I agree that it would be best to balance against stock, and allow functionality for KSPI and NFP to be maintained in separate extensions to Karbonite. They're absolutely apples and oranges and it would be a pain to try to support both of them here out of the box. It seems like Karbonite will be built in a way that should make that pretty straightforward.

Add TAC Life Support to that list too. ^^

[sidfu]

tac only needs water,oxy,co2 those u can manualy add to the ors system plus there already water ors added inside kspi u can use that grayscale.

astrophic elements u can manly add to ors easily with a .cfg addition.

Edited July 29, 2014 by sidfu

[RoverDude]

Working on a new release. On a side note... ModuleGenerator sucks. That's your culprit.

So while I have to eventually build my own replacement (to handle rails), for now I'll just shut down the generators when we run out of stuff or run out of space

I now see why folks make their own generators

That being said, if anyone is aware of a STABLE, and OPEN LICENSED one that's already done, let me know please.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Working on a new release. On a side note... ModuleGenerator sucks. That's your culprit.

So while I have to eventually build my own replacement (to handle rails), for now I'll just shut down the generators when we run out of stuff or run out of space

I now see why folks make their own generators

That being said, if anyone is aware of a STABLE, and OPEN LICENSED one that's already done, let me know please.

This one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/87700-0-24-Generic-Resource-Converter-v1-0 was mentioned to me a while back in this thread. I know nothing about it, but maybe it's worth checking out?

The license reads:

License: Feel free to use or edit this however you want to. You can credit me if you like, but it is not necessary.

[Smurfalot]

Has anyone tried "selling back" the jet fuel you process by recovering a tank? How much do you get for it?

[RoverDude]

This one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/87700-0-24-Generic-Resource-Converter-v1-0 was mentioned to me a while back in this thread. I know nothing about it, but maybe it's worth checking out?

The license reads:

License: Feel free to use or edit this however you want to. You can credit me if you like, but it is not necessary.

Thanks!

My suspicion is that multiple generators is flipping KSP out - I see bizzare behavior. Lemme try this one.

[Smurfalot]

I asked this over in the SCANsat thread and I'm waiting for some feed back about a MM patch, but is it expected behavior that with the dev version of SCANsat that we have the option to display karbonite deposits put nothing ever actually shows up on the SCANsat maps?

Yeah, same problem here. I have NEVER gotten ORS hotspots to display in any form or fashion with any configuration of mods.

[Wren]

Has anyone tried "selling back" the jet fuel you process by recovering a tank? How much do you get for it?

Uh, that is easily tested by making a craft with a fuel tank and recovering that? You don't even need any mods installed. Seriously, what was the point of asking when it would take you maybe 2 minutes?

I literally just launched a regular game and recovered a tank at the Launchpad. .18 per unit of oxidizer and .80 per unit of liquid fuel. Have a nice day mr lazy.

[Doctor Axel]

Has anyone tried "selling back" the jet fuel you process by recovering a tank? How much do you get for it?

I can confirm getting a pittance (I think 1 unit ~= 1 funds) for liquidfuel refined from Karbonite. Fun! Oxidizer gives funds back too, something like 1 unit ~= 0.3 funds.

I, for one, am super stoked about the idea of some kind of Unobtanium that one can mine-off world and bring back to Kerbin for a profit. Heck, you could even make it hilarious. Maybe you mine Mint Ice Cream on Minmus...

EDIT

Ninja'd by Wren. I was close. =P

[NoMrBond]

I can confirm getting a pittance (I think 1 unit ~= 1 funds) for liquidfuel refined from Karbonite. Fun! Oxidizer gives funds back too, something like 1 unit ~= 0.3 funds.

I, for one, am super stoked about the idea of some kind of Unobtanium that one can mine-off world and bring back to Kerbin for a profit. Heck, you could even make it hilarious. Maybe you mine Mint Ice Cream on Minmus...

EDIT

Ninja'd by Wren. I was close. =P

Mintium

Now I'm remembering The Goodies episode where they struck cream and jam while searching for gold, and the scone mine.

[Edit] Oh gez, that came out in 1975, olddddddddddddddddd

Edited July 29, 2014 by NoMrBond

[Doctor Axel]

Yeah, same problem here. I have NEVER gotten ORS hotspots to display in any form or fashion with any configuration of mods.

Odd, I can turn them off and on at will with Karbonite's detector part just fine... they show up both in the map view and in the in-flight view (which I think is a bit odd, but eh.)

[Boomerang]

Odd, I can turn them off and on at will with Karbonite's detector part just fine... they show up both in the map view and in the in-flight view (which I think is a bit odd, but eh.)

Right, I get the giant blaze-orange blobs in my game window, but I've been mucking about with Karbonite and SCANsat and it doesn't seem possible to obtain any sort of concentration map, let alone have it be persistent. Which is fine, it's in dev, but I hope in the future we won't have to go off of "oh, I think I remember there being a hotspot here..."

[RoverDude]

I can confirm getting a pittance (I think 1 unit ~= 1 funds) for liquidfuel refined from Karbonite. Fun! Oxidizer gives funds back too, something like 1 unit ~= 0.3 funds.

I, for one, am super stoked about the idea of some kind of Unobtanium that one can mine-off world and bring back to Kerbin for a profit. Heck, you could even make it hilarious. Maybe you mine Mint Ice Cream on Minmus...

EDIT

Ninja'd by Wren. I was close. =P

Mintium

Now I'm remembering The Goodies episode where they struck cream and jam while searching for gold, and the scone mine.

[Edit] Oh gez, that came out in 1975, olddddddddddddddddd

Have that with MKS/OKS and will shortly have that with Hollow Asteroids

Oh... and a mass driver (WaRi gave me a christmas present of a new model and texture).

Also - the new converter works a treat. Prepping the release now - give me ten minutes.

Lastly... here's how fuel works (Basically what has been observed previously, and follows KSP's fuel flow laws):

- - - Updated - - -

Right, I get the giant blaze-orange blobs in my game window, but I've been mucking about with Karbonite and SCANsat and it doesn't seem possible to obtain any sort of concentration map, let alone have it be persistent. Which is fine, it's in dev, but I hope in the future we won't have to go off of "oh, I think I remember there being a hotspot here..."

SCANSat. Solved issue.

[RoverDude]

0.0.6 up!

New converter plugin (had to tweak that one that was linked but it saved me a ton of work) and some other minor config updates

[Smurfalot]

If you guys go waaaayyyyy back to here in the thread :

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/87335-Karbonite-A-cheerful-license-friendly-alternative-to-Kethane%21-v0-0-5/page55

Carcharhinidae posted a compatibility patch for EL a couple of days back which allows it to do without kethane by adding the ability to make rocket parts with MKS parts. I'm have it installed and am due to test it very shortly, you guys may want to do the same.

and the quick link to his patch : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aletn3e5m430g7j/AAAmvwenaNRY-pnNlQX8K5nCa

I think this has managed to get buried in the masses of discussion for many of us. Worth trying out...

Awesome, I was looking for that patch, but I think Carch left town for vacation or something, so has not replied to my PM.

[Wren]

Wow, I apologize to Smurfalot and to everyone else for coming off like a jerk. Sorry. I shouldn't post while angry from other stuff.

I'm thinking about testing with MKS/OKS now since RoverDude seems to have a solid grasp of the current issues as I understand them:

Conversion while drill active - Broken but being looked at

Tank flow - Working as intended and in line with stock KSP behavior

The only thing I think would be nice to add to Karbonite would be some sort of extendable small sized claw for non docked applications, but even that isn't exactly needed, but would be pretty darn cool. Also, I have no idea how hard it would be to make one item that both extends and arms like a claw. Maybe it would have to be 2 parts, one part that extends In one direction and the part you put on the end that allows resource transfer.

Again, sorry Smurfalot, I shouldn't have called you names.

[RoverDude]

Wow, I apologize to Smurfalot and to everyone else for coming off like a jerk. Sorry. I shouldn't post while angry from other stuff.

I'm thinking about testing with MKS/OKS now since RoverDude seems to have a solid grasp of the current issues as I understand them:

Conversion while drill active - Broken but being looked at

Tank flow - Working as intended and in line with stock KSP behavior

The only thing I think would be nice to add to Karbonite would be some sort of extendable small sized claw for non docked applications, but even that isn't exactly needed, but would be pretty darn cool. Also, I have no idea how hard it would be to make one item that both extends and arms like a claw. Maybe it would have to be 2 parts, one part that extends In one direction and the part you put on the end that allows resource transfer.

Again, sorry Smurfalot, I shouldn't have called you names.

Conversion while drill is active should flat out be fixed with 0.0.6

A Claw part is on a different list, not the Karbonite one And that list is not being touched till Karbonite and Hollow Asteroids are both released.

On that note - my go-live for Karbonite:

1. Oceanic Harvesters (We can use the drill worst case)

2. Atmospheric Harvesters (This is next on my model list)

3. A few more tanks

Anything I am missing? Again, remember we're in scrappy startup mode - more stuff will be added (i.e. look back at the first MKS release )

[Wren]

Conversion while drill is active should flat out be fixed with 0.0.6

A Claw part is on a different list, not the Karbonite one And that list is not being touched till Karbonite and Hollow Asteroids are both released.

On that note - my go-live for Karbonite:

1. Oceanic Harvesters (We can use the drill worst case)

2. Atmospheric Harvesters (This is next on my model list)

3. A few more tanks

Anything I am missing? Again, remember we're in scrappy startup mode - more stuff will be added (i.e. look back at the first MKS release )

For number 2, I think radial or bottom mounted model with pistons/plungers to indicate a pump would be super cool, but that's just me.

Also, what are the current options for showing any of the harvesters are active? Or do we want to minimize any particle creation to help on frame rates?

[Zephram Kerman]

Just to let you know, I'm one more very excited Karbonite customer. Been chasing after this thread all week just trying to catch up, so I think maybe you have a fair bit of interest! I'm looking forward to trying it out for the first time tomorrow (my day off).

So far, the features I'm most impressed by are right there in your description: cheerful, and license-friendly. Thanks to community contributions, Karbonite has come a very long way in just a week.

Well next up is Oceanic and Atmospheric resources.

Side note - Laythe, due to the staggering water volume, is going to be out atmospheric and oceanic hybrid planet. Oceanic on Eve, atmospoeric on Jool, land based everywhere else. Should lend some interesting variety.

Very excited about mining Eve's oceans. Until now, it's always been most efficient to land/launch from a mountain peak; there has never been much of a reason to visit sea level there. So this one feature opens up whole new challenges and solutions.

...3. A few more tanks

My one request: a 1m tank that is very long. The kethane 1m tank always seemed to short to me, so I ended up stacking two or three of them with WeldedParts.

Thanks for doing this very cool mod!

[RoverDude]

For number 2, I think radial or bottom mounted model with pistons/plungers to indicate a pump would be super cool, but that's just me.

Also, what are the current options for showing any of the harvesters are active? Or do we want to minimize any particle creation to help on frame rates?

The drill actually does rotate but it's hidden so you dont get to see it

Beyond that, no particle effects. Yet. likely phase 2. Scrappy startup and all that jazz. And we do have an atmospheric harvester model already

[Robotengineer]

I fixed the model issues with the radial air scoop, got to finish the texture tomorrow. If it doesn't workout, I may let someone else do the UV/texture. I'm still truing to figure out how to add realistic wear effects in gimp,

[RoverDude]

I fixed the model issues with the radial air scoop, got to finish the texture tomorrow. If it doesn't workout, I may let someone else do the UV/texture. I'm still truing to figure out how to add realistic wear effects in gimp,

What did you do the model in?

[togfox]

When this settles down a bit (like - the mod isn't even a week old from inception to release - awesome work!) it would be great to have release notes for each version so we know what is changing and in what direction.

Certainly not needed now - this is a pre-alpha experimental testing debugging releases so far, but just saying it would be great eventually (and [0.24.2] in the thread title )

[NoMrBond]

I fixed the model issues with the radial air scoop, got to finish the texture tomorrow. If it doesn't workout, I may let someone else do the UV/texture. I'm still truing to figure out how to add realistic wear effects in gimp,

Start by exporting your total UV layout (I use .svg's from Blender)

Open your UV layout in GIMP (this will be the bottom layer of your stack, you'll probably have this hidden most of the time)

Create a new layer above your UV map layer; this will be your base 'diffuse' texture

Set up your transparency as a Layer Mask to the base/diffuse layer (do not 'apply' this, leave it as a mask)

Make an normalised Ambient Occlusion (AO) bake (in your modelling program) and then save the bake as an image

Drop your AO bake image into your stack as a separate layer above your Base/DIFF, set this layer to Multiply

Make another layer at the very top of the stack where you can draw your details

You can show and switch to the SVG/UV layer when you want to select the island shapes (wand tool), then switch to the DIFF layer with the island shape still selected

You can then draw into the Base/DIFF layer in very flat simple colours (paint bucketing using the supplied colour palette)

The AO/Multiply layer above that will automatically add shading

Leaving you to fart around in the top layer without your experiments in detailing messing up your base texture.

You can draw directly into the layer mask to set up your alpha channel (for specular) without messing up your texture

When the total image looks how you want you can export it as a .PNG (remember to hide the UV map layer before exporting)

Edited July 29, 2014 by NoMrBond

[Smurfalot]

SCANSat. Solved issue.

Ok, I have 90% of Kerbin mapped. I open scansat, go into the settings, activate the resource overlay and...NOTHING happens. Ever. No matter what buttons I push I cannot see any resources for Karbonite or MKS or anything. No resources at all, and now that you have removed support for Kethane from MKS I cannot even see them on the kethane overlay.

Edit: Correction, actually Scansat does show something...kethane. Just no ORS based resources.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Smurfalot