The UAE wants to go to Mars by 2021.

[shynung]

Not nuclear weapons, no. But space launch vehicles are pretty close to ICBMs. Early launch vehicles were converted missiles, in fact.

Edited July 25, 2014 by shynung

[Godot]

Not nuclear weapons, no. But space launch vehicles are pretty close to ICBMs. Early launch vehicles were converted missiles, in fact.

Actually, the usefulness of space launched weapons like Project Thor has rather been demystified ...

they don´t seem to be as useful as the creators of the idea thought ...

for the one because guidance during rentry requires a lot of electronics as well as fuel ... turning each weapon into an expensive piece of equipment,

for the other, because reentry velocities of > 1 km/s rather work against the destructive power of the projectile, by liquifying it.

See here:

http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/rods-from-god-a-terrifying-space-weapon.html

http://fas.org/rlg/030522-space.pdf

Even if they came up with the idea of the Goa´uld Apophis, to hurl an asteroid towards the enemy, they would still lack the necessary accuracy during reentry to aim well.

Which, I guess, is the reason why we don´t have any US or Russian space weapons yet

Edited July 25, 2014 by Godot

[dharak1]

He means orbit capable rockets are also capable of putting a larger payload on a suborbital trajectory to another country.

[vger]

Actually, the usefulness of space launched weapons like Project Thor has rather been demystified ...

they don´t seem to be as useful as the creators of the idea thought ...

for the one because guidance during rentry requires a lot of electronics as well as fuel ... turning each weapon into an expensive piece of equipment,

for the other, because reentry velocities of > 1 km/s rather work against the destructive power of the projectile, by liquifying it.

What frightens me the most about space-based weaponry, isn't what they could do to Earth. My concern would be if they could ever effectively blockade the Earth, and in a sense "only allow those they want" to travel beyond low orbit. In the future, when things down here really start getting scarce, such a nation would have a noose around the neck of the world, and could make practically any demands it wanted (or just leave us to rot).

Anyway, I'm rather excited about this. I don't know if the UAE is the sharpest tool in the shed, but they sure as heck have a more-than-sufficient ambition to pull it off.

[Seret]

No idea what "general belligerence" you are talking about, relative to their size they hardly have an army to speak of.

Their military is highly politicised, and prone to throwing it's weight around in the geopolitics of the region. They've been known to put their military on alert over the smallest perceived diplomatic slight, and their behaviour in E Timor can hardly be said to be promoting peace and prosperity. From what I've heard the only reason that one didn't turn really ugly is the US leaned on Indonesia behind the scenes.

Visit any of their neighbours in regions bordering Indonesia and look at the force stance of their military bases. RAAF bases like Tindal look about ready to wade through a nuclear war. They do feel threatened.

[1of6Billion]

2021 is 7(!) years from now. Isn't that a little optimistic? Don't they have to start from scratch?

[Hattivat]

Their military is highly politicised, and prone to throwing it's weight around in the geopolitics of the region.

By "throwing it's weight" you mean bullying tiny regions like East Timor or Aceh? That's about as much as they can do, given that their navy and airforce are pretty much non-existent.

their behaviour in E Timor can hardly be said to be promoting peace and prosperity. From what I've heard the only reason that one didn't turn really ugly is the US leaned on Indonesia behind the scenes.

What they did there is deplorable, no doubt about it, but I fail to see what it has to do with "general belligerence" or lack thereof. We are talking about the behavior of local militias and a few select army units (especially Kopassus), which can hardly be construed to represent the general public. Especially given that this happened when Suharto (a dictator) was still in power.

Visit any of their neighbours in regions bordering Indonesia and look at the force stance of their military bases. RAAF bases like Tindal look about ready to wade through a nuclear war. They do feel threatened.

...so threatened that they let hundreds of thousands of their citizens visit Indonesia every month. And hundreds of thousands of Indonesians come to work and/or study in Australia. Totally like countries on the brink of war, totally. Besides, what does RAAF feel threatened with? Their grand total of 35 fighter jets, mostly hopelessly outdated and likely not too combat-ready?

Overall I see that you mean that their military brass are crazy, which they very well might be. However, when I read "general belligerence" the image that comes to my mind is one of massive demonstrations chanting "death to those pesky Thais!" (and meaning it) or something similar, and this is emphatically not what Indonesian public is like. If anything, an average Indonesian person is less likely to make belligerent statements than an average American or an average Pole.

[Seret]

Overall I see that you mean that their military brass are crazy

Very much so. I'm not suggesting that all 250 million men, women and children in Indonesia are frothing zealots.

[shynung]

They've got a thing or two against Chinese ethnic groups, but not much else. They are pretty quick to anger though; the first thing they do if something goes haywire is to start blaming each other.

The military, however, had been rather relaxed, ever since the 2004 earthquake wiped Aceh out. Not much happened ever since.

[jfull]

I think that, rather than bootstrapping their own space program, they should do lots of business with existing private aerospace companies.

Space-X, Bigelow, and others like them would be able to grow immensely if they had a big client like the UAE.

[cpast]

I think that, rather than bootstrapping their own space program, they should do lots of business with existing private aerospace companies.

Space-X, Bigelow, and others like them would be able to grow immensely if they had a big client like the UAE.

That would likely defeat the whole purpose of the UAE's space program. There really isn't a whole lot of value in paying someone else to send a whole mission to Mars for you; what would be valuable for the UAE would be building up the technological sector in the UAE.

[vger]

That would likely defeat the whole purpose of the UAE's space program. There really isn't a whole lot of value in paying someone else to send a whole mission to Mars for you; what would be valuable for the UAE would be building up the technological sector in the UAE.

...but if you want to get there in 7 years and you've never even put a human into orbit before? Reinventing the wheel seems like a waste of time and resources.

Edited July 25, 2014 by vger

[Kryten]

This isn't KSP or BARIS; sending something to Mars, with modern electronics, is a lot easier than sending people into orbit. India have already done with a launcher that could barely put up Vostok, never mind an actual useful craft like Soyuz or Shenzhou.

[vger]

It's not just about getting there though, it's all the weird complications that nobody would even imagine until they've tried it. A LOT of trial and error has gone into getting space programs where they are today. Factoring in transfer time, their vehicle has to be ready to rock in six years. Could they do it, maybe. But that could also mean a rover that fails within the first ten seconds. Then again, with their financial resources, they might be able to launch ten in the same year and just hope one of them works.

[Kryten]

Again, this isn't KSP. Nobody is proposing a rover as a first mission.

[vger]

Again, this isn't KSP. Nobody is proposing a rover as a first mission.

In KSP nobody ever slammed a probe into Mars because someone forgot to convert between U.S. and Metric.

[cpast]

...but if you want to get there in 7 years and you've never even put a human into orbit before? Reinventing the wheel seems like a waste of time and resources.

Why do you think the UAE is doing this? A mission to Mars has no inherent value to the UAE; they just do not have the scientific community needed for that. What does have inherent value is building up a scientific and technological base in the country, which you don't do by paying someone else to do this.

[Seret]

They'll buy it to a certain degree. They'll need to attract existing talent away from other space programmes to get anything done. After that the infrastructure and programmes they set up will create demand for local talent. But there's no way they can achieve anything on such short timescales without simply throwing money at the problem.