Possible to send a model rocket into space?

[livefree75]

Is it possible to make a model rocket that goes into space? If so, what type and material of fuel should be used and how much would it cost?

[Scotius]

Unfortunately no. Even smallest sounding rocket able to reach space (not the orbit, mind you) are much bigger, heavier and expensive than anything you could call a model. DV requirements and weight ratios of fuel tanks and engines assure that.

[peadar1987]

Randall Munro covered this here: https://what-if.xkcd.com/24/

Basically, it depends where you put the cut-off for a model rocket, but it's very difficult, and probably not possible with a single stage.

[Chris P. Bacon]

Into space? surely possible! Into orbit? well you might want to check out microlaunchers or the N-prize... it's difficult, depends on your definition of 'model' rocket, and if you've got the cojones to go out and prove everyone wrong!

Keep in mind, anything going into orbit from the US requires an export permit which would dwarf the cost of anything I'd consider a "model" rocket, and put you well into high-power amateur rocket class.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Chris P. Bacon

[xenomorph555]

Model rocket-no

Amateur rocket-sure

[cantab]

It's as much a matter of semantics as anything. At what point does it stop being a model rocket and start just being a rocket.

[lajoswinkler]

I see "model rockets" as those cutesy cardboard rockets. No, they can't reach space, let alone achieve an orbit, lol.

[livefree75]

when I say "model rocket" I mean anything built by one person or a private company.

[Kryten]

That's not very helpful; most rockets are built by private companies.

[Godot]

Depends on what you call a "model-rocket" ...

if you mean a rocket that is not built by a rocket scientist / space agency ...

sure it is possible, if you have enough money (and the permission by your federal aviation agency to start it)

[peadar1987]

when I say "model rocket" I mean anything built by one person or a private company.

Well in that case, it's already been done: http://www.spacex.com/falcon9

[xenomorph555]

Well in that case, it's already been done: http://www.spacex.com/falcon9

Poor poor falcon 1, never receiving any recognition, then again the thing never worked half the time.

[Kryten]

Poor poor falcon 1, never receiving any recognition, then again the thing never worked half the time.

Never mind falcon anything, the first launcher built by a private company was Juno 1, all the way back in 1958. There's fundamentally no difference between spacex and convair, orbital, LM or any of the others apart from rhetoric.

[peadar1987]

Poor poor falcon 1, never receiving any recognition, then again the thing never worked half the time.

Haha, I just used the first autocomplete link for "SpaceX Falcon"

[Vonar]

For those who are saying that it is not possible I should remind you all that Von Braun successfully launched two small test rockets in 1934 while a part of the Verein für Raumschiffahrt aka the Society for Space Travel.

Also the V2 was mostly developed in the mid to late 1930's, with the design being finished in 1937 well before the civilian rocket program was militarized and as we recall the V2 was the first rocket launched into space. Now of course if you want to do anything on that scale you would require A: lots of money, or B: the backing of a corporation or government. Had things played out differently in Germany during the interwar period it is quite possible that the Society for Space Travel could have successfully launched a V2 rocket in the early to mid 1940's.

[cpast]

For those who are saying that it is not possible I should remind you all that Von Braun successfully launched two small test rockets in 1934 while a part of the Verein für Raumschiffahrt aka the Society for Space Travel.

Those rockets didn't go into space; the most powerful ones went to around 1 km. No one's saying it's impossible to launch rockets; people are saying that amateurs will have a very hard time getting into space. The first time such a thing has been verified was in 2004; there are no verified claims of a space launch prior to that not performed by professionals as part of their job. That rocket used a class S motor, which is far, far beyond "model rocketry", and substantially past "high-powered rocketry", into the domain of plain "rocketry" (as they were amateurs, "amateur rocketry"). It was not a model rocket by any sane definition of "model".

Also the V2 was mostly developed in the mid to late 1930's, with the design being finished in 1937 well before the civilian rocket program was militarized and as we recall the V2 was the first rocket launched into space. Now of course if you want to do anything on that scale you would require A: lots of money, or B: the backing of a corporation or government. Had things played out differently in Germany during the interwar period it is quite possible that the Society for Space Travel could have successfully launched a V2 rocket in the early to mid 1940's.

The V2 was not developed by civilians; the Aggregate program was run by the German army from the very beginning. That instantly disqualifies it as amateur rocketry, let alone model rocketry.

[SciMan]

Space, yes. It's going to cost an arm and a leg, and it will probably be a multiple-stage solid rocket. Probably doable with high-powered or "amateur" rocketry. And it's not going to be a "model" by any definition. But it is possible.

Orbit on the other hand, that's absolutely not possible. You'd end up basically building a small ICBM. I can't think of a country that doesn't have laws against doing that without getting the right approvals, and getting those approvals is like getting blood from a stone if you don't work for a defense contractor or have NASA contracts or something like that.

[lajoswinkler]

Space, yes. It's going to cost an arm and a leg, and it will probably be a multiple-stage solid rocket. Probably doable with high-powered or "amateur" rocketry. And it's not going to be a "model" by any definition. But it is possible.

Therefore it isn't possible, because the question was about model rockets.

[magnemoe]

Depends on what you call a "model-rocket" ...

if you mean a rocket that is not built by a rocket scientist / space agency ...

sure it is possible, if you have enough money (and the permission by your federal aviation agency to start it)

Was an amateur group who sent a rocket up to 100 km, companies like spaceX don't count neither do various universities and research organisations.

I see model rockets as rockets who use ready made fuel cells for model rockets they can not reach space, an amateur rocket includes stuff like Copenhagen suborbital.

[cpast]

Was an amateur group who sent a rocket up to 100 km, companies like spaceX don't count neither do various universities and research organisations.

I see model rockets as rockets who use ready made fuel cells for model rockets they can not reach space, an amateur rocket includes stuff like Copenhagen suborbital.

In the US, there's actually a pretty standard dividing line (not sure how applicable it is internationally): Class A through G engines (impulse at most 160 N s) are model rocketry, and can be launched without any form of license; class H through O (160.01 N s to 40,960 N s impulse) are high-powered rocketry, and require certification by one of two rocketry associations; from class P on, you're doing amateur rocketry, and start needing FAA approval.

[magnemoe]

In the US, there's actually a pretty standard dividing line (not sure how applicable it is internationally): Class A through G engines (impulse at most 160 N s) are model rocketry, and can be launched without any form of license; class H through O (160.01 N s to 40,960 N s impulse) are high-powered rocketry, and require certification by one of two rocketry associations; from class P on, you're doing amateur rocketry, and start needing FAA approval.

Makes sense, I know that the Norwegian version of FFA is not very happy about the stratosphere balloons amateurs has started to launch as people can launch them into air lanes.

They are also very restrictive about UAV as they know people will use them for all sort of stuff if opening up.

Was up in a small plane and I wanted to see if I could see out house, it was in the flight path to an airport so we was called from the traffic control and given an 10 minutes window until the next jet comes.

[Rus-Evo]

What these guys did was probably not too far in excess of what talented amateurs could probably do and they hit 100kms altitude:

(Link is a news article from 2009)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3108525/NZs-first-space-rocket-launches

[Exosphere]

when I say "model rocket" I mean anything built by one person or a private company.

Well, if that's your definition, I know of a company that's building one hell of a model rocket...

That one'll get fifty-three metric tons to orbit.

Seriously, though, I'd agree with lajoswinkler that a "model rocket" is a tiny cardboard thing that you buy from a hobby shop. One of those simply can't get to orbit, simply due to the low fuel fraction, abysmal specific impulse, and massive drag losses associated with launching a tiny object with a thrust to weight ratio of 10:1+ (drag losses are reduced by increasing launch vehicle size and launch TWR). An amateur rocket, on the other hand, is a different story -- "amateur" is usually defined to mean "built by someone not associated with a professional company or space agency." A group of amateurs already did launch a rocket into space -- the CSXT team launched their "GoFast rocket" to above 100 kilometers, which is the usual definition for the beginning of "space." They didn't get to orbit, but they did get into space.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Exosphere

[cantab]

I'm guessing the drag is the main reason a scaled-down rocket can't perform as well as a full size one.

Which then makes me think a rockoon (a rocket launched from a balloon) might do the job. I don't know if this example actually reached space, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rockoon_Van_Allen.jpg , but I'd say that a rocket you can pick up and carry (and that isn't intended as a weapon) can reasonably be called a model rocket.

[FishInferno]

There was one amateur group that did it. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Space_eXploration_Team

Me and a group of friends want to put something in space by the end of high school(we are rising ninth graders). What we will do is launh a high-altitude weather baloon with a rocket attached below it. When the baloon pops, the rocket will launch. It is a high-powered kit that I think can go 2 miles from the fround(but I don't know the exact height), but at that high up, there will pretty much be no air resistance, so it will go alot faster+higher