joystick for ksp

[Macko939]

Do you think it is a good idea to get one? I feel like a joystick would make the gameplay far better than playing with just a mouse and a keyboard.

On the other hand, I don't want to spend £50 and be disappointed.

So you guys play with a joystick? Is it better than with keyboard? What joystick would you recommend? I got around £50 to spend. Thanks for your answers

[Voculus]

As someone who spent way too much on a flight stick, I'd say a joystick would be a worthy investment only if you plan to fly a lot of aircraft. Spinning ships while floating in space with a joystick is hardly a lot of fun, and inaccurate, in my opinion. For aircraft, VTOLs, and the like, they're worth every penny! For something relatively cheap, a Thrustmaster HOTAS X might be a good place to start.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Voculus

[LaytheAerospace]

Joysticks are awesome for aircraft, but stick to the mouse and keyboard for rockets. My seven year old, $29.99 retail joystick works just fine for KSP. No need to go nuts on a serious flight sim setup, unless you also just happen to really like flight sims.

[allmhuran]

As a HOTAS user I absolutely disagree with "stick to mouse and keyboard for rockets", there are some rockets that I simply could not have gotten into orbit using a keyboard. Having said that, for a few days it may feel like you want to switch yaw and roll for rockets. You do get used to it eventually.

A thrustmaster t-flight is a good and quite inexpensive stick and throttle combo, I used one for KSP for a while before switching over to my "real" gear.

[Voculus]

As a HOTAS user I absolutely disagree with "stick to mouse and keyboard for rockets", there are some rockets that I simply could not have gotten into orbit using a keyboard. Having said that, for a few days it may feel like you want to switch yaw and roll for rockets. You do get used to it eventually.

A thrustmaster t-flight is a good and quite inexpensive stick and throttle combo, I used one for KSP for a while before switching over to my "real" gear.

I'm curious as to what your "real" gear is. A Thrustmaster Warthog, mated with a nice set of rudder pedals, by chance? I may or may not be rocking that setup myself!

[zarakon]

When I fly planes I use a Logitech F710 gamepad, basically the equivalent of an Xbox 360 controller, which would also work just fine

It's a thousand times better than flying with the keyboard. Maybe not as good as a full flightsim setup, but I think it's perfectly adequate for KSP, cheaper, and useful for tons of other games too.

Left stick: Pitch/roll

Right stick: Camera

Triggers: Yaw (analog yaw controls via triggers requires a manual config edit, but it can work)

A: Throttle down

Y: Throttle up

X: Brakes

B: Cut engines

Right bumper: Staging

Left Bumper: SAS toggle

Stick clicks: Zoom in/out

Back: Map

Start: ESC menu

D-pad: Currently unused. I should put lights and landing gear on here...

Edited July 30, 2014 by zarakon

[Masetto]

I tried my joystick. Even for aircraft, it's at best unneeded. I found it simply annoying and quickly unplugged it.

I would recommend turning the sensitivity down a ways, especially for Roll.

edit: I like that controller configuration, I might have to try that.

[allmhuran]

I'm curious as to what your "real" gear is. A Thrustmaster Warthog, mated with a nice set of rudder pedals, by chance? I may or may not be rocking that setup myself!

Glorious warthog master race.

[kStrout]

How do you set up a joystick once you have one? I have a really nice joystick, but it doesn't do anything when I plug it in.

[lammatt]

i have an X52 and a Logitech F710

and i tried both on KSP

there are input delay issues for the stick. (i believe many of us who tried flying with a x52 stick in KSP encountered this too, they say it's probably due to saitek's driver)

and using a gamepad doesnt actually feel right.

so... until the input lag is fixed, i think playing on a keyboard and mouse is a better option.

Edited July 30, 2014 by lammatt

[Voculus]

How do you set up a joystick once you have one? I have a really nice joystick, but it doesn't do anything when I plug it in.

The only setup should be from the in-game menu. You'll need to set up your pitch, roll, yaw, and throttle axes, depending on how complex your peripherals will allow for.

[lammatt]

The only setup should be from the in-game menu. You'll need to set up your pitch, roll, yaw, and throttle axes, depending on how complex your peripherals will allow for.

true.

the more axis your stick has, generally the better

and for KSP which you have 6degree of freedom plus a throttle, you want to at least get those mid-range sticks (x52 or anything higher. Thrustmaster's Hotas X isnt good eough because it has 3 axis only)

[rodion_herrera]

Something as simple and cheap as a Logitech Attack 3 is already suitable. This was back in 0.20

[lammatt]

Something as simple and cheap as a Logitech Attack 3 is already suitable. This was back in 0.20

of cos it is.

the point is, you get what you paid for.

there's a reason why some sticks are $50 while some other are $500

eg. with a cheapo stick,

you dont get a hotas + rudder set up

you dont get thousands of POV hats and sliders and buttons

you dont good get ergonomics

the stick doesnt use a hall effect sensor (this doesnt actually matter much indeed IMHO, who cares about its mechanism as long as it works flawlessly)

.

.

.

dont get me wrong, any stick with 4 axis can do ANY flying game (X,Y,Z rotation + throttle)

but having 6 axis simply puts you into another experience. (X,Y, Z translation and rotation...while you technically dont get 6axis in KSP cos the RCS is on/off instead of being analog, but you know what i mean)

Edited July 30, 2014 by lammatt

[rodion_herrera]

of cos it is.

the point is, you get what you paid for.

there's a reason why some sticks are $50 while some other are $500

eg. with a cheapo stick,

you dont get a hotas + rudder set up

you dont get thousands of POV hats

you dont good ergonomics

.

.

.

dont get me wrong, any stick with 4 axis can do ANY flying game (X,Y,Z rotation + throttle)

but having 6 axis simply puts you into another experience. (X,Y, Z translation and rotation...while you technically dont get 6axis in KSP cos the RCS is on/off instead of being analog, but you know what i mean)

Another thing that most people forget is, sometimes, something loaded with features doesn't let you get to fly it better--sometimes, it needs skill, and with that, comes a LOT of practice. Features are mainly for convenience and pressure-offload, but the essence of simulated flight can be mastered using simpler control devices, with practice.

[lammatt]

Another thing that most people forget is, sometimes, something loaded with features doesn't let you get to fly it better--sometimes, it needs skill, and with that, comes a LOT of practice. Features are mainly for convenience and pressure-offload, but the essence of simulated flight can be mastered using simpler control devices, with practice.

of cos this is true.

but imo, once you get the feel of flying with a stick...(which is VERY EASY... it takes no more than a couple of hours playing any flying games... whether it's dog fighting games or FSX)

you soon find a cheapo one not good enough.

you will want a hotas.

then you will want a rudder

then you will want more sliders

then you will want more buttons

and the list goes on.

so... i really dont think spending money on an entry level stick (2axis+throttle) is worth it.

anyone thinking of buying a stick should think of getting at least a configuration of 3axis+throttle+a couple of sliders. (rudder is good too if you have another $100 disposable)

Edited July 30, 2014 by lammatt

[rodion_herrera]

which is VERY EASY

Old saying, "Easy to learn, difficult to master."

[lammatt]

Old saying, "Easy to learn, difficult to master."

this is like photography

of cos a master can shoot with a point-to-shoot and still manage to get good pics.

in a point-to-shoot there's no spot metering, there's no histogram,it has poor ISO performance, and you dont actually have control of almost anything regardless it's the aperture or the shutter.

yes, a master can overcome the lack of autonomy on the machine with his experience and technique.

but why the hassle

when your 5D3 or 7D or 1D offers you a huge ISO range, crazy shutter speed, bultin off-camera speedlite sync, spot metering, curtain sync options, and all sorts of other things

no it doesnt make you a pro having the gear instantly.

but yes, as long as you know WTF you are doing, having better gears makes making a good pic A WHOLE LOT EASIER

same here for sticks

Edited July 30, 2014 by lammatt

[zarakon]

people using flight sticks - what do you use to control the camera?

that's one of the great thing of dual sticks on a gamepad, I have full control of the plane and the camera at the same time

Side note: fly planes in chase cam mode! (or cockpit view, but it's kind of hard to see much in the stock one)

[lammatt]

people using flight sticks - what do you use to control the camera?

that's one of the great thing of dual sticks on a gamepad, I have full control of the plane and the camera at the same time

Side note: fly planes in chase cam mode! (or cockpit view, but it's kind of hard to see much in the stock one)

there are like thousands of POV hats on any semi decent sticks

they are called POV hats for a reason

------------------------------

or many of the flying simmers have trackIR or facetrackNOIR or those kind of stuff anyways

[LaytheAerospace]

people using flight sticks - what do you use to control the camera?

The mouse. My stick is crap. It gets the job done just fine, though, and after using it for nearly a decade, nothing really feels right when I try it out in the store. One of these days I'll pick up a warthog, but I'm just not playing enough flight sims now that I can afford it. Friend of mine keeps trying to get me playing DCS, figure I'll grab one when I start. He's got the X52 and lusts after the warthog all the time.

[Voculus]

people using flight sticks - what do you use to control the camera?

that's one of the great thing of dual sticks on a gamepad, I have full control of the plane and the camera at the same time

Side note: fly planes in chase cam mode! (or cockpit view, but it's kind of hard to see much in the stock one)

Mostly chase cam, but I'll use the cockpit every now and then, if it's not too cluttered. I really wish we had TrackIR support.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Voculus

[allmhuran]

there are like thousands of POV hats on any semi decent sticks

they are called POV hats for a reason

They are indeed, but the camera in KSP is not a point of view control.

Back in the days of early flight sims, there were usually a set number of view points. The default "look ahead" view, obviously, and then a "look left", "look right", "look up", and so on. A POV hat could handle this.

The camera in KSP is a slewable, absolute position control with three degrees of freedom. POV hats don't work very well here, since they are generally just "on/off", they have no graduation. In other words, you can set a POV-hat-left input to pan the camera left around your craft, but it will only be able to do so at one fixed speed. If you want to quickly pan 90 degrees there's no way to do that. This may not sound so bad... until you try it.

Some HOTAS devices these days, such as the one I use, include a nipple cursor which does have graduated input, but these are difficult to set up with KSP. It can be done with a fairly complex autohotkey script, which is what I use, but I still use mouse for camera control sometimes.

Track IR etc don't work well for KSP since the control would be inside out. Good for IVA view, not good for external view.

[Macko939]

I'm interested in "Thrustmaster HOTAS X" because it looks pretty good.

I was also considering this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390706244997?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

because its relatively cheap and as far as I know Logitech is a quite decent company

what do you guys think about these two?

[allmhuran]

I had the t-flight (hotax-x) and it's a nice little bit of kit for the price. I think you'd enjoy it way more than the logitech one as long as you have the space for both controllers.