[1.9-1.10] Hangar

[traisjames]

On 5/6/2019 at 2:46 AM, allista said:

output_log.txt, please

You want the Kerbal main log or is there an output_log.txt somewhere?

[allista]

7 hours ago, traisjames said:

You want the Kerbal main log or is there an output_log.txt somewhere?

On windows there's the KSP_Data/output_log.txt which is much more verbose than KSP.log

On Linux/Mac the same file is called Player.log and is located elsewhere.

[traisjames]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zucply2e4e1aewc/Player.log?dl=0

[allista]

5 hours ago, traisjames said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zucply2e4e1aewc/Player.log?dl=0

Ok, so you clearly have some installation issues.

Several mods are not compatible with KSP-1.7 that you're running:

• UmbraSpaceIndustries/ART
• UmbraSpaceIndustries/Konstruction
• UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS
• HullCamera
• FlightPlan
• GroundConstruction 2.2 (which is outdated, there's an update for KSP-1.7)

You have the latest Hangar for KSP-1.7, but you're missing the correct version of AT_Utils, so the Hangar itself does not load properly.

The best thing is to reinstall the Hangar from Spacedock (which does include correct AT_Utils version):

https://spacedock.info/mod/1000/Hangar/download/3.3.5

Another option is to manually install the latest AT_Utils from Github:

https://github.com/allista/AT_Utils/releases/download/v1.6.3/AT_Utils-1.6.3.0.zip

 

[traisjames]

Its working now and I am trying to build a shuttle with MK3 large cargo bays but the ship I want to put inside is a bit too long...is there a way now or in the future to combine two cargo bays attached to eachother as a single hanger twice a long?

[MaxPeck]

@allista I noticed you added the ability to add individual parts to a hangar... any chance of integrating with OSE and/or KIS so that we can make parts on a base or station and then deploy them via a hangar?

Edited May 13, 2019 by MaxPeck

[allista]

6 hours ago, MaxPeck said:

@allista I noticed you added the ability to add individual parts to a hangar... any chance of integrating with OSE and/or KIS so that we can make parts on a base or station and then deploy them via a hangar?

I've considered the possibility of integration with KIS awhile ago, but it turned out it doesn't have any public API I could use, so the project stuck

As for OSI, my answer is of course the Global Construction 

It may seem an overkill, but it's already there and can do exactly what you want, namely construct a single part in orbit or on surface and deploy it there just like out of a hangar.

[allista]

10 hours ago, traisjames said:

Its working now and I am trying to build a shuttle with MK3 large cargo bays but the ship I want to put inside is a bit too long...is there a way now or in the future to combine two cargo bays attached to eachother as a single hanger twice a long?

No such a way now, and with current architecture it won't be easy to implement.

You can use a dedicated hangar part, which is resizable, or add the AnisotropicPartResizer module to the mk3 parts.

[allista]

Version 3.3.6 for Kerbal Space Program 1.7.0

Released on 2019-05-14

• Added ability to change UI color scheme at runtime
  • To access the Color Scheme dialog, right-click the GC toolbar button

 Download 

[allista]

With the correction for Hangar toolbar button, of course 

[allista]

Version 3.3.6.1 for Kerbal Space Program 1.7.0

Released on 2019-05-28

• Fixed some issues with Procedural Adapter and APR module.
• Using latest AT_Utils

 Download 

[allista]

Can't help noticing that the Hangar is by far the least popular of my mods.

Naturally, I wonder why: is it just a narrow ecological niche, since part count is not such a big problem now? 

Or some points in the mod have to be drastically improved to make in more usable?

[whale_2]

10 minutes ago, allista said:

Can't help noticing that the Hangar is by far the least popular of my mods.

Naturally, I wonder why: is it just a narrow ecological niche, since part count is not such a big problem now? 

Or some points in the mod have to be drastically improved to make in more usable?

 

Since when part count stopped to be a problem? I just think that Hangar is truly useful when the missions are starting to become really complex and not everyone is willing to go that far.
I used Hangar a lot for Eve and Duna missions, but those were complete overboard by many standards - 20+ vessels designed specifically for Eve mission, delivered, assembled on-site, all for establishing a sustainable touristic flights to and from Eve.

Spoiler

 

[MaxPeck]

33 minutes ago, allista said:

Can't help noticing that the Hangar is by far the least popular of my mods.

Naturally, I wonder why: is it just a narrow ecological niche, since part count is not such a big problem now? 

Or some points in the mod have to be drastically improved to make in more usable?

I don't know why.  This is one of my mandatory mods.  Your aeroshells in the early game and ground hangars in the later game are keys to my space program, and I much prefer being able to put landers in radial hangars than having them hang off the side of my transports.

This mod makes KSP 1000x more playable, I'm not sure why it's doesn't have greater uptake.  Maybe people just don't know about it.

[DStaal]

I'll admit I almost never use the aeroshells - I tend to dump my fairings well before the areoshell dump would make sense,  so they don't fit my play much.  (That said, occasionally I'll have some satellite I want that I can't launch any other way due to the design.)

The rover lander I find useful, but a bit awkward to use.  I tend to like bigger multi-mission rovers, and the rover lander doesn't handle long rovers all that well.  That said, if I want to dump a few small robotic utility rovers on a planet, nothing's better - but they have to be fairly small, or the radius of the lander gets big quick.  I've rarely used it for anything larger than an Akita.

The ground hanger I've used a couple of times - it's large enough it basically needs to be built in place, and though it's useful, that's a large investment in your offworld planetary infrastructure to get set up.  It's only really useful once you've built a large base already.

The other hangers - I haven't used much, though I probably should.  My usual 'spacestation to spacestation' method of transit really should support it, but they've just never quite been part of the design.  (Though then I have to launch the hangers as larger than my transit vehicles - which can get somewhat awkward, as they're not designed for anything but space, and may well have been directly constructed in orbit.)

Hanger is a mod I always think I should use more than I do. 

[allista]

@DStaal what about inflatables, both ground and space, as a way to park utility crafts and transfer resources? Of course the later may not be an issue in USI world with wireless distribution (don't know, never tried it). Still, that's what I mostly use myself.

I've tried to solve the problem of a rover hanger for long rovers more than once; but that means an inline part with dorsal/ventral architecture and an animation that moves parts of it away from the axis... and then it becomes too complicated with the limitation of animations vs attach nodes. But I'm still trying 

My biggest problem is of course that I've forgot how to play  I even made the rule to play KSP no less than a week after each release 

[DStaal]

On the ground, I tend to park utility craft where ever I last used them.    And yeah, USI makes transferring resources easy in that situation, or I build KAS ports into everything for one-offs when I need them.  (Which tends to be on the far side of the planet from everything else I've built...)

In space is where I should use them - that's where I get lag-inducing part count, and actually go through the trouble to dock things together.  I just need to actually do so and get used to it a few times.

As for the rover hanger problem - have you seen the Breaking Ground trailer?  They're getting closer to being able to do that in stock...

I will note as a sidenote that I almost never use dorsal/ventral-door cargo bays - rovers have cargo bays which open to the sides, but I just land them directly most often.  (Usually using TCA...)

[Beetlecat]

3 hours ago, allista said:

Can't help noticing that the Hangar is by far the least popular of my mods.

Naturally, I wonder why: is it just a narrow ecological niche, since part count is not such a big problem now? 

Or some points in the mod have to be drastically improved to make in more usable?

For me personally, my lack of use of Hangar is conceptually integrating it with Kerbal Construction Time, since it has a craft "storage" concept similar to keeping craft in a hangar. Since in early game, i'm making far more vehicles and aircraft than space craft, most everything stays close to the KSC, and using the KCT "recover to storage" makes pretty good sense.

I think my main problem is that I never really make it past the early-game anymore.  Once I start building orbital structures, or far-away bases, actual Hangar(tm) hangars will start becoming more crucial parts of my game

Edited June 10, 2019 by Beetlecat

[MaxPeck]

So if we're getting into use cases, I can elaborate a bit.  Standby for more verbose feedback.

I use just about all the hangar modules to some extent, including the spaceport.  The rover lander is one of the most used for me... I generally use it as a scout package where I load a small rover inside with either a WBI grabber arm or some other grabber tool.  I'll drop rover landers at probable base sites and use the small rover to check them out.  I also use the small rover to push and tug base modules into place before landing Kerbals, and I use the rover lander itself as my landing target, using mechjeb.  I'll target it, and then push +10 meters in different directions using the targeting controls, and then use the rover to roughly lay out the base before I commit to putting Kerbals on the surface.  I like being able to put my rovers away each time I'm done at the site, so until I get a ground hangar set up, rover hangers are the thing.

I use inline hangars and radial hangars for docking bays on transports.  On one larger ship I also included a spaceport as a hanger bay, but then I accidentally deorbited it doing an inclination change.  The good news is the hanger survived all the way to the surface and was still intact after the crash, so it became a de facto surface base.  I like being able to park probes and landers inside of a hangar instead of having them just hanging off of docking ports.  I also like being able to add the hangar extenders as my ships evolve.

The ground hangar generally becomes the centerpiece of my main surface base and houses my engineering and exploration rovers.  I like the idea of the VTOL hangar, but I have a hard time implementing it.  It seems like it likes to eat my crafts, they land and they'll store and then it'll refuse to give them back.  Or it'll let me load them in the editor and then refuse to let me launch them.  I feel like the launch pad on top needs to be bigger, maybe as much as 80-90% of the surface area for it to be useful.

I don't use the inflatable hangars much.  Sometimes I'll use the advanced inflatable ground hangar.  I never use the inflatable space hangar because I don't really like the aesthetic of it, and it's a pain to launch.  Easier just to use inline hangars.  I would like to use the MK3 spaceplane form factor more, but it's so big and unwieldy that it gets to be more trouble than it's worth.  Doesn't stop me from trying, but I've yet to have a successful design with it that actually had any utility.  I'd really like more smaller end-loading ones, like maybe a 1.25, 2.5 or MK2 form factor one that either has a cargo door on the end or can be combined with an existing cargo door, like the current payload bays, but without the dorsal opening.  I know there are MM patches to allow payload bays to act as single-use hangars, but I build a lot of 2.5m VTOLs, and it would be nice to be able to drive a rover in and out of the end of them.  The radial one doesn't work for that, and the inline ones will to an extent, but getting back into them from the ground is a chore.

The adjustable adapter is invaluable and gets a LOT of use.  People who don't have this mod don't know what they're missing.

Edited June 11, 2019 by MaxPeck

[allista]

7 hours ago, MaxPeck said:

 I like the idea of the VTOL hangar, but I have a hard time implementing it.  It seems like it likes to eat my crafts, they land and they'll store and then it'll refuse to give them back.  Or it'll let me load them in the editor and then refuse to let me launch them.  I feel like the launch pad on top needs to be bigger, maybe as much as 80-90% of the surface area for it to be useful.

No that is actually a bug report as this is obviously not supposed to happen!

[allista]

7 hours ago, MaxPeck said:

I'd really like more smaller end-loading ones, like maybe a 1.25, 2.5 or MK2 form factor one that either has a cargo door on the end or can be combined with an existing cargo door, like the current payload bays, but without the dorsal opening.  I know there are MM patches to allow payload bays to act as single-use hangars, but I build a lot of 2.5m VTOLs, and it would be nice to be able to drive a rover in and out of the end of them.  The radial one doesn't work for that, and the inline ones will to an extent, but getting back into them from the ground is a chore.

So basically a smaller version of the Space Dock with an extendable ramp? Does Mk2 still have the inline cockpit?

And for the cylindrical versions I'll have to learn the new model switching framework (aka part variants).

It would be hard to model, though. I still remember what it took me to make the hydraulics for the Rover Lander and even more for the permanent variant of the Klaw...

 

BTW, no one mentioned the asteroids 

I understand that to use them one must first catch them, which is a feat in itself. But I wonder if hangar building in asteroids ever gets used at all?

7 hours ago, MaxPeck said:

The adjustable adapter is invaluable and gets a LOT of use.  People who don't have this mod don't know what they're missing.

They're probably using procedural parts instead 

[allista]

But I have to admit, I would be glad to return to modeling for a change! Programming as a job and programming as a hobby takes its toll 

[allista]

Also, while I'm in a talkative mood, trying to learn to use Discord for real-time mod-related discussions:

https://discord.gg/W7xMsW

(valid until Jun 13, 10am UTC)

Edited June 12, 2019 by allista

[MaxPeck]

4 hours ago, allista said:

So basically a smaller version of the Space Dock with an extendable ramp? Does Mk2 still have the inline cockpit?

And for the cylindrical versions I'll have to learn the new model switching framework (aka part variants).

It would be hard to model, though. I still remember what it took me to make the hydraulics for the Rover Lander and even more for the permanent variant of the Klaw...

 

BTW, no one mentioned the asteroids 

I understand that to use them one must first catch them, which is a feat in itself. But I wonder if hangar building in asteroids ever gets used at all?

Mk2 does still have the inline cockpit.  But I think if you did an end-loading hangar in round and mk2 variants, it could also address the issue someone else had of “long rovers”.  Think of the habitable inline hanger, except instead of opening dorsally, it opens on one end.  Since there are a plethora of cargo doors out there, you wouldn’t necessarily need to model a cargo opening, just leave an attachment point so we can attach a cargo door and/or structural hulls ourselves. 

As to the asteroid hangar... I’ve done it once, and I liked it. I captured a large asteroid and shimmied it over multiple missions into a stable 500x500 Kerbal orbit, put the asteroid hangar in it, built up some surface stuff using the asteroid claws and stock grabber and had myself a pretty awesome shipyard.  The problem is that Squad usually iterates the game before I can get that far, and then I spend the next month playing  Kerbal Update Program and restarting my career game once again. The asteroid framework is pretty late game and Squad never really gives us a chance to get that far.  

[superqboi]

Can I install this in a career save that has already been started? I'm at the point where I can use rover arms for science now but I'm having trouble keeping the rovers mass centered on my rocket while still being able to offload them once landed so this mod sounds like it'll fix that issue for me!