What do Rovers need to have?

[Volcanix]

Hey guys!

Currently I'm planning on designing a rover for my first Mun science exploration mission, so I wanted to collect your opinions on what rovers need to have. So, what do you think? Does a rover need to have a propulsion system? A docking port? Or else? Tell me what you think. Images would be great, I need some inspiration^^. It would be also great to know what you would build on a rover if you could. For example if you could, would you build a Mainsail-powered Rover?

Volcanix

[r4pt0r]

the problem is at high speeds the electric motor powered rover wheels will fail. so you would have to use the landing gear wheels or they will explode.

[Overfloater]

A powerful gyro/SAS unit so it can maintain stability at high speed, and recover from any situation. If it's for the Mun, then the yellow one should do the job.

[goldenpeach]

Rover need wheels.

What do you mean by "your post is useless, everyone know that rovers needs wheels...

[TimePeriod]

It might be a better idea to setup a research/fuel station in a shallow orbit around the Mun, then use a lander with the science gear for each biome.

[Volcanix]

Rover need wheels.

What do you mean by "your post is useless, everyone know that rovers needs wheels...

Yeah, I think thats pretty clear. A rover should be able to drive and have wheels.

What I've meant are the additional things. For example, a crew seat, science stuff like Mystery goo or a antenna, etc.

[Mystique]

If MOAR SCIENCE is your target, then dump rovers. They're not time efficient and are suitable just for fun. To get lots of science you'll need orbital part of craft carrying lots of fuel (enough for several landings and take-offs from the Mun and also for return trip to Kerbin) and lander part. Orbital part must have science lab to reset and store experiments, while lander part must have full set of science part except for barometer (and also suitable for kerbonauts to exit to the Mun surface). 3-5 landings near biome borders will generate you LOTS of science. If you're efficient with langing, you may even have enough delta-v on your lander to land, perform sub-orbital hop to other biome and collect science there. This thing is very useful for Minmus, you may even take science lab to lander to save time on returning to orbital part for reseting experiments.

P.S. I've built rover from LFO tank with small stock engine on the back + some external seats on top. It was fun to drive when using rocket engine, like kind of flying bike The only issue was flat tires, but who cares about those?

[Aragosnat]

They need wheels prefurably the electric ones as they don't weigh a lot. Then you need batteries and solar panals, prefurably the ones that can turn to keep the part count and mass down. Next is how it is going to be controlled. Probed, command capsule or rover seat, depends on which you have unlocked or need. On top off it all. They need to be balanced and a bit wide and low to the ground as well as disabled front braking to prevent flipping.

Extras are someting to right our rover back, either gears and or RCS monopropelent, science point gathering parts, comm part, and the patience of a Saint.

Best top speed in most cases is 10 m/s. As that gives yuo the most time to react as well as not likely to make the rover go BOOM! as at higher speeds gravity is a real [REDACTED] as well as lack of atmosphere to help slow you down a little.

[goldenpeach]

Yeah, I think thats pretty clear. A rover should be able to drive and have wheels.

What I've meant are the additional things. For example, a crew seat, science stuff like Mystery goo or a antenna, etc.

hmmm....

Unless you do an hovercraft...

That would be awesome!

EDIT: I just did a basic rover propelled by a ion engine and I can confirm that hovercraft are cool(that was aslo obvious ) However, it can't work on big planets(my test was made on minmus), the choice is limited.

Edited July 31, 2014 by goldenpeach

[Volcanix]

Okay, thanks for your answers. Can't you repair flat tires in EVA? Or can I only do that because I'm using KAS?

And another question. What are all you guys playing? Sandbox, Career or Science and with which mods? I'm interested

[Geschosskopf]

Currently I'm planning on designing a rover for my first Mun science exploration mission, so I wanted to collect your opinions on what rovers need to have. So, what do you think?

The 1st thing rovers need is a useful, practical purpose to exist at all. Science exploration is not such a purpose. The only place in the whole system where a rover beats a flying machine for exploration is Tylo. Otherwise, rovers are only useful to carry multiple Kerbals and/or gear and supplies repeatedly over short distances. For example, you have a Kethane system on the ground and you need a fuel truck to drive between it and any ships that land in the general area. Or if you're building a ground base of docked modules, sometimes it helps to put the modules on wheels so you can drive them together. But then they'll only ever make that 1 short drive.

[Mystique]

hmmm....

Unless you do an hovercraft...

That would be awesome!

I already tried several. They need good balancing in order not to flip (RCS build aid mod works fine), but it's actually fun to fly But they're less fuel-efficient than sub-orbital hoppers, mainly because you need 2-4 engines on hovercraft, which adds mass and reduces delta-v, imho.

BTW, it's useful to add safety parts to rover, like I-beams or landings struts that will stick out from roof and sides like from Pinhead's head. You'll know why you need them when you'll driver faster than 10 m/s on low gravity, especially when you miss that crater edge and it's too late to brake

[Volcanix]

The 1st thing rovers need is a useful, practical purpose to exist at all. Science exploration is not such a purpose. The only place in the whole system where a rover beats a flying machine for exploration is Tylo. Otherwise, rovers are only useful to carry multiple Kerbals and/or gear and supplies repeatedly over short distances. For example, you have a Kethane system on the ground and you need a fuel truck to drive between it and any ships that land in the general area. Or if you're building a ground base of docked modules, sometimes it helps to put the modules on wheels so you can drive them together. But then they'll only ever make that 1 short drive.

You just fired up my imagination. *searches for kethane mod on his computer*

What do you mean by carrying Supplies? Do you mean transporting science instruments between multiple bases? Doesn't attaching and grabbing things only work with Kerbal Attachment System or have I missed something?

[r4pt0r]

my first minmus mission in .24 will be a science lab rover that will hit all biomes with all science eqipment.

[goldenpeach]

If you want, I can send you my basic hovercraft: the simplest thing to not having to do the balancing is simply the put the engine at the bottom of the craft.

It's quite efficient if you use an ion engine, even if it will restrain your choice.

Note: A simple thing to keep the hovercraft at the same altitude all the time is to use a mod(mechjeb do that in the translatron module, but there is also other mods like Automate Vertical Velocity and Altitude Control)

[Callmedave]

Dont forget to test the Rover on Kerbin, Simply build the rover, then hit launch, you will be on the launch pad (or runway) have a drive around and see what you think, if it seems a little top heavy on kerbin, it will be worse on the mun with lower gravity.

A rover needs a least 4 wheels, but with the lower gravity of the Mun there is less traction (grip) more wheels= more traction.

A rover also needs power to move around, this can either be the little star shaped power generators (name???) or batteries and solar panels, Solar panels will obviously only work in the sunlight, so choose carefully where you land on the Mun.

Rovers dont 'Need' anything else, but its worth having at least one seat, some Science gear, RCS and RCS thruster for little boosts of speed and to right the craft when you had too much speed and flipped it. Lights are cool, Maybe a ladder? A docking port in a good place will allow you to dock to a Lab and clean the mystery goo etc.

Check out the rover thread on here for some ideas.

[Geschosskopf]

What do you mean by carrying Supplies? Do you mean transporting science instruments between multiple bases? Doesn't attaching and grabbing things only work with Kerbal Attachment System or have I missed something?

Supplies are some resource (Kethane, fuel, food, beer, whatever) that's available at Point A and needs to be carried to Point B, which is only a few clicks away at most. As with the example of a Kethane rover. You have a Kethane deposit somewhere on a planet, part of which covers an area of reasonably flat ground 1-2km wide suitable for landing rockets on. You're good enough flying manually to land somewhere in that area but can't land immediately adjacent to the Kethane mining station. So you have to move the Kethane from the mining station to wherever the ship needing it happened to land within the overall area. That's a good use for a rover.

In fact, it's about the only practical use for them, other than when exploring Tylo. If you want to visit multiple biomes, it's FAR FAR safer, quicker, easier, more interesting, and requires WAY less of your personal time, to fly, either atmospherically or suborbitally.

Grabbing and attaching are functions provided by the KAS mod, but when you use the mod, you can apply those functions to just about any small part. However, in terms of Kethane, KAS does make it easier to connect things together to pump resources around. HOWEVER, KAS still seems to be broken for 0.24 so for the time being, don't count on it.

You can still use docking ports, however. It's just that docking things together on ground that it's perfectly level can be a real pain, especially of the masses of the vehicles involved change due to carrying different amounts of fuel, so their suspensions are at different amounts of flex than when you built the thing. But you can overcome this as well by mounting one of the docking ports on an arm equipped with Infernal Robitics hinges and such, so you can adjust it to fit as needed.

[EdFred]

my first minmus mission in .24 will be a science lab rover that will hit all biomes with all science eqipment.

Good luck with that. Any terrain encountered on Minmus going more than about 4m/s will flip your rover, and things will break.

[MachineShedFred]

If it's a manned rover, either have a roll cage, or something taller than your Kerbal's head that won't break off. If the thing rolls and he bangs his head on the ground, you end up with a rag doll kerbal in the command chair that I've yet to figure out how to recover from.

[zarakon]

Good luck with that. Any terrain encountered on Minmus going more than about 4m/s will flip your rover, and things will break.

A while ago I had a very successful Minmus science mission using a rover. I think I got samples from every biome with it.

With landing gear for wheels and sufficient structural armoring, they can be very resistant to breaking. I used rockets for propulsion, which worked extremely well. I used the flats to cover as much distance as possible, which uses practically no fuel since there is no air resistance. Then when I had to visit non-flat areas, I was able to hop around like a normal rocket lander.

Minmus is great for rover science because it's small and has large, easy, fuel-efficient flatlands. It's probably the only place where a rover is "worth" using for science, though. The Mun is too large and crater-y, and other planets don't have biomes yet. Any place with an atmosphere, the rockets and landing gear design becomes inefficient, and you have to deal with slow and fragile rover wheels. Still, even if it's not good for science it can be a ton of fun. One of my favorite times in KSP was driving a rover (before they added rover parts) across the extremely rugged terrain to reach the Mun's south pole.

[EdFred]

A while ago I had a very successful Minmus science mission using a rover. I think I got samples from every biome with it.

With landing gear for wheels and sufficient structural armoring, they can be very resistant to breaking. I used rockets for propulsion, which worked extremely well. I used the flats to cover as much distance as possible, which uses practically no fuel since there is no air resistance. Then when I had to visit non-flat areas, I was able to hop around like a normal rocket lander.

Minmus is great for rover science because it's small and has large, easy, fuel-efficient flatlands. It's probably the only place where a rover is "worth" using for science, though. The Mun is too large and crater-y, and other planets don't have biomes yet. Any place with an atmosphere, the rockets and landing gear design becomes inefficient, and you have to deal with slow and fragile rover wheels. Still, even if it's not good for science it can be a ton of fun. One of my favorite times in KSP was driving a rover (before they added rover parts) across the extremely rugged terrain to reach the Mun's south pole.

That doesn't sound like a rover to me.

[Volcanix]

Supplies are some resource (Kethane, fuel, food, beer, whatever) that's available at Point A and needs to be carried to Point B, which is only a few clicks away at most. As with the example of a Kethane rover. You have a Kethane deposit somewhere on a planet, part of which covers an area of reasonably flat ground 1-2km wide suitable for landing rockets on. You're good enough flying manually to land somewhere in that area but can't land immediately adjacent to the Kethane mining station. So you have to move the Kethane from the mining station to wherever the ship needing it happened to land within the overall area. That's a good use for a rover.

In fact, it's about the only practical use for them, other than when exploring Tylo. If you want to visit multiple biomes, it's FAR FAR safer, quicker, easier, more interesting, and requires WAY less of your personal time, to fly, either atmospherically or suborbitally.

Grabbing and attaching are functions provided by the KAS mod, but when you use the mod, you can apply those functions to just about any small part. However, in terms of Kethane, KAS does make it easier to connect things together to pump resources around. HOWEVER, KAS still seems to be broken for 0.24 so for the time being, don't count on it.

You can still use docking ports, however. It's just that docking things together on ground that it's perfectly level can be a real pain, especially of the masses of the vehicles involved change due to carrying different amounts of fuel, so their suspensions are at different amounts of flex than when you built the thing. But you can overcome this as well by mounting one of the docking ports on an arm equipped with Infernal Robitics hinges and such, so you can adjust it to fit as needed.

Well, but the only "real" supplies / resources given in KSP are (with Kethane mod) Kethane, Liquid Fuel, Oxidizer and other fuels?

KAS seems to work for me. I've got 0.24.2 and as I'm writing, everything works fine.

If it's a manned rover, either have a roll cage, or something taller than your Kerbal's head that won't break off. If the thing rolls and he bangs his head on the ground, you end up with a rag doll kerbal in the command chair that I've yet to figure out how to recover from.

Have you got some examples or pictures ? I haven't got any idea on how to build a roll cage. With structural panels?

[Geschosskopf]

Well, but the only "real" supplies / resources given in KSP are (with Kethane mod) Kethane, Liquid Fuel, Oxidizer and other fuels?

Depending on mods, there are scads and scads of resources. Life support adds at least 6, sometimes more depending on the mod. KSP Interstellar has many more. So do Extraplanetary Launchpads and MKS or whatever they call it nowadays. And now there's Karbonite as well. Seriously, you can have resource panels so big you can't find what you're interested in amongst all the others. But anyway, quite a few of these can be pumped between vehicles so are amenable to being carried between other vehicles/bases by a rover.

KAS seems to work for me. I've got 0.24.2 and as I'm writing, everything works fine.

That's nice to know. I've really been missing it. The thread was still saying it didn't quite work yet, however, at least in win64.

[r_rolo1]

On the OP: if you want to make a Munar trek on rovers, don't :/ Take my word ( I've done it in 23.5 ): it is fun for the first 200/300 km, after that is a chore that you can't reliably time warp. More, don't drive at night : the Mun has really bad night ilumination and unless you have detailed maps in hand, you will sooner or later enter into a crater ( that is not a good thing if not planned )

More, the Munar polar terrain is definitely not rover friendly...

[Geschosskopf]

More, the Munar polar terrain is definitely not rover friendly...

Understatement of the day .